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  1. #1621
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakto View Post
    Don't forget that the gear is downgraded to 496 in LFR. Maybe this is different with 540+ (haven't tested it so far).
    My rotation was J --> HS --> HR --> LoD. I used Divine Purpose procs (--> LoD) as filler spells to sometimes get 2 stacks of SH.
    So i guess Divine light is out of that rotation eh.

    And Tung's?

  2. #1622
    Pretty much the same. Had some FPS probs and some UI elements were not working so I missed some J but pretty much J>HS>HR>LoD and so on. If you ask me a pretty boring rotation but nice for movement heavy encounters.

    €dit: Obv you can still DL/WoG to Top a low health player.

  3. #1623
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Won't happen ever sadly. It's a sad state of affairs but you're right, healing lost a lot of it's skill, so much so that IMO the "toughest" role to play in a raid nowadays is a DPS class.
    I disagree it could easily happen if Blizzard would be willing for it to happen. They've done much bigger changes in the past.

    The big problem is people are used to and love overpowered aoe heals/hots/absorbs/smart heals a lot more then single target casted spells. This is one of the reasons I'd wish Blizzard would either give up on their stupid idea of "triage" or go all the way through. You're not triaging anything when you're spamming ReM on cd for no mana cost and the spell heals a lot more then a spell that costs 4 times more mana. Or when you're penancing the boss.
    Last edited by Aladya; 2013-07-22 at 07:41 PM.

  4. #1624
    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    Pretty much the same. Had some FPS probs and some UI elements were not working so I missed some J but pretty much J>HS>HR>LoD and so on. If you ask me a pretty boring rotation but nice for movement heavy encounters.

    €dit: Obv you can still DL/WoG to Top a low health player.
    It's no less boring than HR > HR > HS > EF which is what we do now.

  5. #1625
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    I disagree it could easily happen if Blizzard would be willing for it to happen. They've done much bigger changes in the past.

    The big problem is people are used to and love overpowered aoe heals/hots/absorbs/smart heals a lot more then single target casted spells. This is one of the reasons I'd wish Blizzard would either give up on their stupid idea of "triage" or go all the way through. You're not triaging anything when you're spamming ReM on cd for no mana cost and the spell heals a lot more then a spell that costs 4 times more mana. Or when you're penancing the boss.
    The reason why they probably won't do it, as much as it is good for the game, is the massive amount of backlash from casuals they got in T11 when they tried to implement the triage design. That was as much from the tuning of the 5 man heroics as it was from the healing design, but they gradually moved away from the triage system because too many healers whined that "they felt weak and nerfed compared to Wrath". If they tried to nerf the relative power of healers again like that, they would probably get the same reaction, so they are scared to try it.

  6. #1626

  7. #1627
    What they should do next expansion is give us a static amount of mana regen just like we had a static amount of mana in mop. They should not give us mana regen trinkets either, they should just stick to trinkets that gives int with int, absorb and heal procs.

    Both Cata and mop was amazing whilst in blue gear and it was really easy for a good player to stand out as the bad ones was oom 3mins into any given fight.

  8. #1628
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    The reason why they probably won't do it, as much as it is good for the game, is the massive amount of backlash from casuals they got in T11 when they tried to implement the triage design. That was as much from the tuning of the 5 man heroics as it was from the healing design, but they gradually moved away from the triage system because too many healers whined that "they felt weak and nerfed compared to Wrath". If they tried to nerf the relative power of healers again like that, they would probably get the same reaction, so they are scared to try it.
    MoP was more triaged based early on too. It's just the nature of gear progression. We get more regen, we can use our expensive heals more, the encounters are designed around us using our more expensive heals, we forget about our cheap heals.

    Triage only works at the start of the expansion when you have to fall back on cheap heals. Certainly we couldn't spam HR for HP in the first tier of raiding.

  9. #1629
    I definitely like the DP change though

  10. #1630
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Atonement is the biggest culprit that everyone refers to. It pretty much killed the real need for spot healing.
    I think the biggest problem is when they put DA on Atonement, prior to that Discs were just spamming POH, but at least that required them to gear spirit or use mana CD's in their raid to maintain.

  11. #1631
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    It's no less boring than HR > HR > HS > EF which is what we do now.
    Its the second time you gave that response and the second time someone told your that you dont just use EF without looking if you wanna max out your EF using you have to rotate it on ppl and on lower Hp ppl..

    The new rotation you dont need that.. You can just make a macro and spam it without having to target anyone almost..

    The new rotation is a lot less engaging.. And a lot more mind numbing..

  12. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    What they should do next expansion is give us a static amount of mana regen just like we had a static amount of mana in mop. They should not give us mana regen trinkets either, they should just stick to trinkets that gives int with int, absorb and heal procs.

    Both Cata and mop was amazing whilst in blue gear and it was really easy for a good player to stand out as the bad ones was oom 3mins into any given fight.
    I honestly thought this was what they were going for, when I first saw the static mana pools. I don't really understand why they don't.
    Dr Johnson, they said: “we are delighted to find that you’ve not included any indecent or obscene words in your dictionary.”
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  13. #1633
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    I honestly thought this was what they were going for, when I first saw the static mana pools. I don't really understand why they don't.
    So we take away spirit as a stat completely?

  14. #1634
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    So we take away spirit as a stat completely?
    Wouldn't that make gearing more boring, because all healers would care about is haste breakpoints and straight throughput based gearing instead of gearing to a personal preference Spirit level?

    I don't think they need to take out scaling regen; they just need to tone down the power of smart heals and absorbs and passive healing and raid cooldowns. That would be enough to make healing more of a skill based decision making role instead of migrating too far to being a DPS style rotation.

  15. #1635
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    Its the second time you gave that response and the second time someone told your that you dont just use EF without looking if you wanna max out your EF using you have to rotate it on ppl and on lower Hp ppl..

    The new rotation you dont need that.. You can just make a macro and spam it without having to target anyone almost..

    The new rotation is a lot less engaging.. And a lot more mind numbing..
    It's a little less engaging and a little less mind numbing.

    I agree that the new play is probably going to be boring. I won't agree that the current play is anything more than only slightly better.

  16. #1636
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    I don't think they need to take out scaling regen; they just need to tone down the power of smart heals and absorbs and passive healing and raid cooldowns. That would be enough to make healing more of a skill based decision making role instead of migrating too far to being a DPS style rotation.
    Giving players more and more regen just means they have to design encounters around players having more and more mana. How can you challenge healers if they can't run out of mana? Make them have to heal faster, of course! Which is what always happens. Instead of people hovering safely around 70-80% for most of a fight, we see everyone constantly at 100%, with absorb classes spamming like mad to lower the chance that someone will die form that next insane income of burst damage.

    With a design like this, you basically have to make single-target damage so deadly that it will kill anyone who isn't topped off, and may even kill them even if they're topped off if they're not immediately healed after taking damage, and all aoe damage naturally has to either be both sustained and extremely deadly, or just so deadly that anyone who isn't topped off for subsequent volleys will die outright. The same model without smart heals just means you assign healers or watch everyone pile (over)heals on top of the same person at the same time, every time someone takes damage - and then you keep doing that for the entire fight because you can't run out of mana anyway and the encounters are designed so that if you don't do this then people will die.

    I haven't healed an expansion where this didn't happen, and it makes the last tiers really ass.

    Obviously, removing regen scaling has a bunch of its own problems, but these are easy to design around so that there wouldn't have to be the need to spam mindlessly any more in later tiers than in earlier tiers.

    Anyway, I don't expect it's ever going to happen. They can't even decide if they want to remove hit rating or not, so they're not gonna be touching something as intrinsic to what it means to be a healer in WoW as scaling mana regen.
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  17. #1637
    Next expansion I'd say definatly this rediculous situation healing has gotten into has to change. having a "rotation" as a healer as if damage is so predictable is stupid, the whole "atonement, fistweaving thing" is a good concept but sadly the numbers are extremely overtuned. It shouldn't be something that does so much for what little you do for it, i mean smiting gives extra raid dps (as minimal as it sometimes is) with healing. Absorbs should just be scaled down also since those classes without get shot in the foot so much by them. In this current state of the game, I'd personally love to see a 10 man raid of a resto druid, resto shaman and a holy priest/mw monk go in and do heroic progression. See the difference the game is with little to no absorbs, I bet the fights are a lot more close cutting than current progression shows

  18. #1638
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    Wouldn't that make gearing more boring, because all healers would care about is haste breakpoints and straight throughput based gearing instead of gearing to a personal preference Spirit level?
    I dont see why that would make it boring, you would still have 4 stats to chose from: int, haste, crit and mastery.

    If the level 45 talents goes live the way they are atm ill be reforging out of every single point of spirit I have in my gear. I'll be going for full mastery then haste to a certian point and if I still have excess spirit (which I will have) ill reforge it into crit. Spirit does nothing "interesting" to the current formula or the one we are expecting in 5.4. Currently everyone have from 12-18k spirit and they decided their spirit from personal preferances but the exact same thing can be said about other stats.

    If Blizzard were to remove mana regen entirely from items everything would be a lot easier to balance and the damage the raid bosses does to the raid would not have to increase so much with each tier.

    Trinkets (and legendary meta) in particular fucks up the balance between classes, just look at monks. In 5.4 who ever gets the new mana regen trinket which effect is reduced each time you heal will be the dominating factor for who tops the meters. I can easily see myself do 20% more healing than an equally skilled paladin if I had that trinket because it regenerates so much mana.

  19. #1639
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Trinkets (and legendary meta) in particular fucks up the balance between classes, just look at monks. In 5.4 who ever gets the new mana regen trinket which effect is reduced each time you heal will be the dominating factor for who tops the meters. I can easily see myself do 20% more healing than an equally skilled paladin if I had that trinket because it regenerates so much mana.
    You mean the one that loses like 6 stacks in one Holy Radiance?

  20. #1640
    Yes I'm pretty sure thats a bug.

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