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  1. #1
    Field Marshal tornado shanks's Avatar
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    5.4 Sacred Shield changes

    I know the notes we see before us are subject to change, but assuming they don't for the duration of this thread, let's look at the changes to our beloved [Sacred Shield]

    Holy: When you or your Beacon of Light target falls below 30% health, that target gains Sacred Shield, absorbing 30% of their maximum health. Sacred Shield can only occur once every 2 minutes.

    Protection, Retribution: When you fall below 30% health, you gain Sacred Shield, absorbing 30% of your maximum health. Sacred Shield can only occur once every 2 minutes. Paladin - LvL 45 Talent. 40 yd range. 6 sec cooldown.

    It would also seem that the current version of Sacred Shield that we use now will only be available in prot spec.

    Thoughts on these possible changes?

  2. #2
    From a holy POV, I don't think I would take it in PvE unless there was a mechanic I could gimmick with it - and off hand I can't really think of any worth it this expansion so far. Giving up eternal flame would be a crazy loss.

    From a PvP standpoint, I think the changes to both this and selfless healer are both pretty interesting. One of the major weaknesses in holy PvP is the lack of passive healing, absorbs and CDs we can get onto teammates while being CCed. This would certainly help with that, most likely making it better than EF considering the nurf.

  3. #3
    As prot, since I get to keep the good (current) SS, I'm fine with this. Will I ever use SH? Maybe...but it's usefulness seems kinda limited outside of VERY niche circumstances. Will I ever use EF? After the nerfs, no....probably never. Will I ever use the new SS? Probably most of the time; passive saves are ALWAYS nice.

    Obv this post is PVE related.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    As prot, since I get to keep the good (current) SS, I'm fine with this. Will I ever use SH? Maybe...but it's usefulness seems kinda limited outside of VERY niche circumstances. Will I ever use EF? After the nerfs, no....probably never. Will I ever use the new SS? Probably most of the time; passive saves are ALWAYS nice.

    Obv this post is PVE related.
    Then they'll decide passive is too strong like the old AD auto-res and just give us Last Stand instead... or no, sorry it'll be called Crusader Stand of Righteousness or some such.

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk
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    New Sacred Shield very nice for holy pvp. Nice that if you get CC'd for 12 seconds you still have a buffer to keep someone up, and even another defensive on top of Bubble.
    Honestly, as Ret, will depend on the comp I'm in. If offheals are necessary, SH - if not, I would love my old Sacred Shield back tyvm.

  6. #6
    the cooldown on it is way to long for it to be useful but it is the only talent in that tier that doesn't reduce your healing.

  7. #7
    the fact we will have SS + a 45 talent is quite nice in soloing aspect atleast. EF+ SS will be nice!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tornado shanks View Post
    Thoughts on these possible changes?
    Gut reaction is "ugh."
    I personally liked the current version because it's passive damage absorption to keep my health up instead of something that only helped me out (at best) every two minutes. Since it's not a heal, it still functions at full strength against healing debuffs. It's also badass for soloing old raids.

    We had the proposed version in Cataclysm, and it was alright. Maybe I'll warm back up to it or try out Selfless Healer... but as I said, gut reaction. :P


    [edit: PvE Ret perspective.]

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    As prot, since I get to keep the good (current) SS, I'm fine with this. Will I ever use SH? Maybe...but it's usefulness seems kinda limited outside of VERY niche circumstances. Will I ever use EF? After the nerfs, no....probably never. Will I ever use the new SS? Probably most of the time; passive saves are ALWAYS nice.

    Obv this post is PVE related.
    As I mentioned in the Prot thread, the changes could make Eternal Flame very attractive as it'll have a 100% self mod + 90-110% mod from Bastion, making it tick extremely hard, and it already benefits quite well from Haste, should be able to get around the 16-18 tick mark, making it a huge amount of healing if you can make it useful and not just all wasted
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-06-20 at 12:38 AM.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    From a tanking perspective it seems like a nice change since it's basically just a bonus 30% buffer on my health for when I drop low, though who knows how it'll compare to EF with the new set bonuses; it doesn't seem worth it if that remains as it is.

    From a healer perspective it would be a pretty meh ability by itself, but considering what we give up to get it it's just fucking terrible, there's no real diplomatic way to put it.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal tornado shanks's Avatar
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    As a ret pally (mainly pve), I'm slightly butthurt about this change.
    Would love to hear what other pve rets think about the new SS.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by tornado shanks View Post
    As a ret pally (mainly pve), I'm slightly butthurt about this change.
    Would love to hear what other pve rets think about the new SS.
    With Divine Protection, I don't think its too incredibly necessary to survive raid mechanics. As Ret, I'm usually not the one struggling to stay alive during big heals phases (Divine Prot + TV glyph) and barely noticed the time to put up the shield anyway. I'd almost rather have the passive OH SHIT bubble pop up and prevent me from dying if I ever got close.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by tornado shanks View Post
    As a ret pally (mainly pve), I'm slightly butthurt about this change.
    Would love to hear what other pve rets think about the new SS.
    Its a bit harsh, specially gonna hit some of the solo stuff hard like Brawler and Old raids, I've not raided Ret with SS but I can see that being a loss we really don't need, would be nice to let Ret target the new Sacred Shield talent like Holy can so they can be useful on fights where Forbearance is an issue to give something more to bring them to a raid for, specially as they're likely going to have very few BoP susceptible mechanics in the next tier after whats happened this tier.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Prot did not need these changes. And now SS is even more useless for holy.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Prot did not need these changes. And now SS is even more useless for holy.
    Agreed on prot.
    We're strong enough, to not need another buff :P
    Getting the current SS as basespell, and getting a passive "failsafe" in the tier instead, is pretty damn strong.
    On top of that we get some strong setbonuses.

    Really don't see the idea behind this change for prot. I don't recall any "nerf them to the ground" from blizzard recently, indicating buffs.

    Guess it's meant as a pvp-talent for ret. Clueless about healadin.
    [prot pov]

    Edit:
    Guess they change the name of one of the spells, since it's a bit confusing they have the same name <.<
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  16. #16
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Prot did not need these changes. And now SS is even more useless for holy.
    Can't think of any fights where holy used SS over EF throughout the entire xpac. Prot did need something to address it because it was a mandatory talent, the 15, 30 and 45 tier were almost always completely removed the prot paladins' minds because the first two are rarely relevant and the third had absolutely no alternative.

    This change addresses two things:
    a. It gives ret back the 4.3 sacred shield that they adored for the most part. People have been asking for that back since before launch.
    b. Allows Protection to actually have a 45 talent tree.

    Overall I'm keen for this, in the current model all 3 talents have potential to be harnessed in progression raiding, EF for a massive benefit to WoG for high damage fights, SS 2.0 for huge single hits such as dread thrash or fatal strike, and SH for fights with low tank damage but with a demand for raid healing. Dark Animus strikes me as a perfect situation to run SH to help recover from bad swaps before a jolt.

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  17. #17
    The Patient Monoroth's Avatar
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    For ret new SS in PvE will be amazing. With our haste lvls going up and reducing amount of black holes in rotation to almost 0 we have no time using current SS. having passive def rdy when big hit is inc and you'r on low hp with no def up it's basicly like Purgatory but hmm better I guess.

    For prot I agree Cata SS + Current as baseline is bit to much I know they nerfed our active mitigation and healing throught battle healer but still it's bit to much.
    Plus I don't wanna go prot to tank some HC fights at excuse " prot is better for this fight"...

    For holy I wonder how this will turn out since they nerfed EF I guess so they make other talents more atractive to holy palas. If tank is extremly squishy I guess SS could save him but EF is still going to be main talent choice or mybe SH will overtake it.

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    Can't think of any fights where holy used SS over EF throughout the entire xpac. Prot did need something to address it because it was a mandatory talent, the 15, 30 and 45 tier were almost always completely removed the prot paladins' minds because the first two are rarely relevant and the third had absolutely no alternative.

    This change addresses two things:
    a. It gives ret back the 4.3 sacred shield that they adored for the most part. People have been asking for that back since before launch.
    b. Allows Protection to actually have a 45 talent tree.

    Overall I'm keen for this, in the current model all 3 talents have potential to be harnessed in progression raiding, EF for a massive benefit to WoG for high damage fights, SS 2.0 for huge single hits such as dread thrash or fatal strike, and SH for fights with low tank damage but with a demand for raid healing. Dark Animus strikes me as a perfect situation to run SH to help recover from bad swaps before a jolt.
    So all prot paladins use SS so it should be baseline, while all holy paladins used EF so it is overpowered and should be nerfed. Give me a break. Prot didn't need the buff of having SS baseline so they could choose another talent. The original SS was better for Holy than the new/cata version of SS is. Part of their reasoning for nerfing Eternal Flame was to make the other talents more attractive to us, but they then nerfed SS for us as well.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-06-20 at 01:43 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by monoroth View Post
    For holy I wonder how this will turn out since they nerfed EF I guess so they make other talents more atractive to holy palas. If tank is extremly squishy I guess SS could save him but EF is still going to be main talent choice or mybe SH will overtake it.
    In their current state it does nothing but nerf Holy, the other two talents are useless comparatively

  20. #20
    dumb. everyone liked the woltk sacred shield now its going back to cata

    i was thinking of maby playing again but they keep fuckin around with paladins they should of just improved on them from wrath. the new set bonus is really cool though because its like the old wrath days of ret with using divine storm all the time
    Last edited by IHateJayWilson; 2013-06-20 at 01:53 AM.

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