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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    The question is if ghost means 30% crit at the start of the tier, or decked out.... Decked out we'd get pretty close with reposite beeing 75% tbh.
    Well, if the later is true that means we'll be shit for progression and probably sat on dps check fights.
    I rather they made it 100% now and nerfed it later on :-/

  2. #122
    They need to get us to that 30% at progression level gear. Oh well. I'm kinda over the fact that my DPS sucks. i'm just getting my Paladin ready for DPS check fights.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    They need to get us to that 30% at progression level gear. Oh well. I'm kinda over the fact that my DPS sucks. i'm just getting my Paladin ready for DPS check fights.
    Have you not seen the Paladin changes that recently were announced? Haste was effectively nerfed to the ground for them.

  4. #124
    No, there's already a workaround in the making -> http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ladin-changes/

    But we should maybe stay at one thread, posting at 3-4 for only patch gets quite confusing (at least to me).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    They need to get us to that 30% at progression level gear. Oh well. I'm kinda over the fact that my DPS sucks. i'm just getting my Paladin ready for DPS check fights.
    You'll be able to get 35% crit raidbuffed with the current riposte rating conversion thing while still maintain all your stamina gems & trinkets, up to 40% for 10M in current heroic gear (calculated mainly on non-tf pieces).

  5. #125
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Frankly with the riposte changes I wouldn't be surprised if I were doing the same, if not more DPS than an equally geared paladin

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    its free stats, don't complain! =p
    It's not free when the implementation is part of the premise for moving our Heroic Strike procs to purely trigger off shield slam crits.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    It's not free when the implementation is part of the premise for moving our Heroic Strike procs to purely trigger off shield slam crits.
    It is free because even if we only have half the ultimatum proccs (which won´t be the case. I estimate more) every heroic strike will be a crit.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Frankly with the riposte changes I wouldn't be surprised if I were doing the same, if not more DPS than an equally geared paladin
    Equally geared or equally skilled ? huge difference imo...
    I don't think 75% will be enough for ehm, people like me, to catch a paladin, let alone a monk

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Equally geared or equally skilled ? huge difference imo...
    I don't think 75% will be enough for ehm, people like me, to catch a paladin, let alone a monk
    So I´m not quite up to date. Don´t those two got nerfed? I remember Keg Smash being nerfed by 8% or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  10. #130
    Keg smash got buffed, then they nerfed it again, so it's currently as strong as it is on live.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Have you not seen the Paladin changes that recently were announced? Haste was effectively nerfed to the ground for them.
    Huh? Please explain because I have not seen any super nerfs other then the grand crusader change (not a nerf to the ground) and the battle healer change (once again, not a nerf to the ground).

    I'm gearing up my paladin regardless of how much their damage gets nerfed. My warrior is already almost BIS and I want to gear up another tank during farm. here are my options below and my reasoning:

    Monk: The other tank with is a legit monk. Considering he is still only like 538 ilvl I'm not gonna be getting my monk geared anytime soon.

    DK: There are certain fights that DKs are literally unusable (Gara'jal, Ra-den) because of the way they are designed.

    Druid: Similar reasons as the monk and druid. I also hate druid tanking in MoP

    Paladins are designed great defensively and bring a ton of raid utility. Not even counting their legit damage assuming it doesnt get nerfed "to the ground" like you say.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    Keg smash got buffed, then they nerfed it again, so it's currently as strong as it is on live.
    My friend said he was like 90% sure that buff never went live on the PTR and the nerf was put on the original amount. He may have been lying to give me some hope of tanking trash next patch lol

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    Keg smash got buffed, then they nerfed it again, so it's currently as strong as it is on live.
    My friend said he was like 90% sure that buff never went live on the PTR and the nerf was put on the original amount. He may have been lying to give me some hope of tanking trash next patch lol
    The PTR patch notes are always in comparison to live not to previous PTR patches. The changes to Keg Smash are about an 18% nerf compared to numbers on live. Just check the monk sub-forum. It's been tested be a couple of monks. It's quite a nerf but I guess warranted.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Huh? Please explain because I have not seen any super nerfs other then the grand crusader change (not a nerf to the ground) and the battle healer change (once again, not a nerf to the ground).
    When I originally posted that comment a Blue hadn't addressed the mana regen issues Prot Paladins would have faced; namely even running 0 Haste they'd OoM within 3 minutes of combat starting due to how Seal of Insight had been changed. Looks like OoMing should no longer be a concern for Paladins, Haste or no Haste.

  14. #134
    I checked ptr about 12 hours ago for Keg Smash and it was an effective ~ 5% difference (negative) to live. But since this ability still scale with weapon damage and attackpower while most of the other harder hitting tanking abilities only scale with the latter they should be fine in T16 gear... again.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Frankly with the riposte changes I wouldn't be surprised if I were doing the same, if not more DPS than an equally geared paladin
    Stepping away of your outstanding Durumu numbers i don't see that trend on other bosses, especially with adds/multiple targets and on a "normal" 90% percentile level. Don't forget that while we gain 20-40% more crit chance from Riposte while actively tanking paladins will also gain 15-20% more haste next tier, allowing them to alter their rotation to deal even more damage (1-1 instead of 1-1-0 should be accessible, shouldn't it?). And that picture get's even worse in 10M when we're forced to sometimes use SBar to assist our healers because melee damage isn't that lethal here.
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2013-07-11 at 04:35 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    And that picture get's even worse in 10M when we're forced to sometimes use SBar to assist our healers because melee damage isn't that lethal here.
    That's honestly the only thing I do not understand, why wouldn't they put Heavy Rep on Shield Barrier already..... it's just.... silly.. Maybe because you'd be able to keep barrier up 100% of the time when offtanking? :s I'm not sure but it seems like an easy change.
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  16. #136
    Would be easier to just bake in the +50% slam and free the glyph, instead of forcing you to pick it up and then keep using Sblock even if you use a low mastery/heavy avoidance gear (which makes Sblock scream don't use me unless your vengeance have lagged behind, I suck with your gear). That and the 75% riposte, and the damage gap will be closed when going heavy into avoidance/crit. With mastery builds will be around mastery monks/paladins, so... done and done. They close the gap and solve the problem of having two mandatory glyphs on the spec.

  17. #137
    They need to redesign the glyph so every time you use Shield Block or Shield Barrier you gain the 50% buff for 6 seconds.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    They need to redesign the glyph so every time you use Shield Block or Shield Barrier you gain the 50% buff for 6 seconds.
    So you intend to make it like a permanent buff while you are offtanking?
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    So you intend to make it like a permanent buff while you are offtanking?
    It already is.... I have it up for like 90% of my SS even when Im offtanking. This just allows us to use Barrier so we actually gain something other then the 50% damage from that rage.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    So you intend to make it like a permanent buff while you are offtanking?
    The glyph has to be redesigned somehow, its stupid being punished for using the right mitigation.

    I'd like it lowered to 10-20%, working on both sbar/block and buff shield slam AND revenge to compensate. :P
    Or just remove it, free up the glyph slot like espada said.

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