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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I think it would conveniently go missing. "DNR? There was no DNR on that corpse!"
    "ehh... actually, there was DRN on my corpse."
    "shut up, jimmy! you are still confused from the whole ressurection process. go rest outside, or something."
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  2. #162
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Sylvanas' short story has the Wrynn invading Undercity in the future where Sylvanas never returns from ICC. Even without Sylvanas' recent actions and the Forsaken army being destroyed during Garrosh's suicidal order at Gilneas, the Alliance wipes out the Forsaken.
    No they don't. The Forsaken kill themselves rather than become the Alliance PoW.
    All you've provided a source of is the Alliance defeating them in a military engagement. It says absolutely nothing about the Alliance wanting to "wipe them out". As far as your source shows the Alliance counter attacked Horde aggression to the point where they were able to capture the Forsakens capital.

    That's how war works. It doesn't mean they wanted to wipe them out. I'm not trying to invoke Godwin's law of any sort, but just because in WW2 the Allies captured Berlin did not mean they wanted to wipe out the enemy.

  3. #163
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    No they don't. The Forsaken kill themselves rather than become the Alliance PoW.
    All you've provided a source of is the Alliance defeating them in a military engagement. It says absolutely nothing about the Alliance wanting to "wipe them out". As far as your source shows the Alliance counter attacked Horde aggression to the point where they were able to capture the Forsakens capital.

    That's how war works. It doesn't mean they wanted to wipe them out. I'm not trying to invoke Godwin's law of any sort, but just because in WW2 the Allies captured Berlin did not mean they wanted to wipe out the enemy.
    At this point I doubt they would spare the forsaken, they think by killing them, they release the Forsaken from their torment. There are enough quests to indicate this mindset concerning the undead. Take Varian for example

    Do you know how many ranger lords exist in this world? How many human ranger lords have ever existed?
    Nathanos' accomplishments were unprecedented. He was a tactical genius, responsible for Alliance victories spanning a decade of conflict.
    And now... the champion of the Forsaken.
    No. This cannot be. Order must be restored.
    Gather an army, <name>. Return to the Plagues with your army and destroy the Blightcaller.
    I wish you luck, <name>. Truly, you will need it for this battle.


    It is a tragedy. I think... I believe that our kind is cursed, <name>. We are cursed to lose our greatest warriors; our most noble heroes; our most gifted scholars.
    We are indebted to you and I assure you, <name>, wherever Nathanos Marris is now, he smiles down upon you.
    Though we both know Nathanos wouldn't agree with that assessment.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    No they don't. The Forsaken kill themselves rather than become the Alliance PoW.
    All you've provided a source of is the Alliance defeating them in a military engagement. It says absolutely nothing about the Alliance wanting to "wipe them out". As far as your source shows the Alliance counter attacked Horde aggression to the point where they were able to capture the Forsakens capital.

    That's how war works. It doesn't mean they wanted to wipe them out. I'm not trying to invoke Godwin's law of any sort, but just because in WW2 the Allies captured Berlin did not mean they wanted to wipe out the enemy.
    They weren't afraid of being taken as PoWs.

    The few Forsaken who remain are throwing themselves into the bonfires, she realized, rather than facing their executioners. --Edge of Night
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    At this point I doubt they would spare the forsaken, they think by killing them, they release the Forsaken from their torment. There are enough quests to indicate this mindset concerning the undead. Take Varian for example

    Though we both know Nathanos wouldn't agree with that assessment.
    The fact that they allowed DK's into the Alliance shows this not to be the case though.

  6. #166
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    The fact that they allowed DK's into the Alliance shows this not to be the case though.
    Not Quite

    <Varian stares off into the distance.>
    Indeed old friend... Blood and honor.
    <Varian affixes his gaze upon you.>
    Were it not for this letter from Tirion, you would be a stain upon my floor. Only an endorsement from one of the greatest paladins to ever live could have ensured your survival.
    We... We will work together against the Scourge. Against the Lich King!
    GLORY TO THE ALLIANCE!
    This time there is no Tirion to stop him.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They weren't afraid of being taken as PoWs.

    The few Forsaken who remain are throwing themselves into the bonfires, she realized, rather than facing their executioners. --Edge of Night
    Do note that was a thought by Sylvanas. She had no idea what the Alliance would've intended for them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Not Quite

    This time there is no Tirion to stop him.
    Doesn't change the fact that they were allowed in. They were given a chance because of the words of Tyrion. Varian did not have to give it to them, but he did.

  8. #168
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post

    Doesn't change the fact that they were allowed in. They were given a chance because of the words of Tyrion. Varian did not have to give it to them, but he did.
    Because someone like Tirion vouched for them, otherwise he would have killed them without batting an eye. Who will vouch for the forsaken, who just recently waged wars and unleashed a plague at the wrathgate? No one and as such he would most likely do what he had done to the death knight if it hadn't been for that letter. If Tirion would have been there I might concur, but Varian on his own assaulting undercity is a death sentence for the forsaken.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  9. #169
    What is Sylvanas was a being of light like a Naaru, that went around and raised dead bodies into living again bodies of light? Then how would you feel?

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Because someone like Tirion vouched for them, otherwise he would have killed them without batting an eye. Who will vouch for the forsaken, who just recently waged wars and unleashed a plague at the wrathgate? No one and as such he would most likely do what he had done to the death knight if it hadn't been for that letter. If Tirion would have been there I might concur, but Varian on his own assaulting undercity is a death sentence for the forsaken.
    Because Tirion had to vouch for a Death Knight. Nobody has to vouch for the Forsaken, they are not joining the faction. The Alliance know there are good Undead out there and at the same time show an awareness to the influence a leader can have on a race such as Sylvanas.

    But as I mentioned there is no source that claims it's in the Alliance's interests to wipe them out.

  11. #171
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Because Tirion had to vouch for a Death Knight. Nobody has to vouch for the Forsaken, they are not joining the faction. The Alliance know there are good Undead out there and at the same time show an awareness to the influence a leader can have on a race such as Sylvanas.

    But as I mentioned there is no source that claims it's in the Alliance's interests to wipe them out.
    It is the very mindset of humans, they don't really see forsaken as people, they are monsters, unnatural things that only brought them pain and loss. You see this mindset several times in books and in quests. Killing them is nothing bad, it is doing them a favor, the forsaken mindset has become exactly the same considering resurrection, they are two sides of the same coin.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It is the very mindset of humans, they don't really see forsaken as people, they are monsters, unnatural things that only brought them pain and loss. You see this mindset several times in books and in quests. Killing them is nothing bad, it is doing them a favor, the forsaken mindset has become exactly the same considering resurrection, they are two sides of the same coin.
    Oh no I don't deny they loathe them. Doesn't mean they will wipe them out though. If the imprisonment of the Orcs is anything to go by then given the choice the Alliance would rather lock them up than have further blood on their hands. The Orcs were alien monsters hell bent on killing them and weren't culled, I'd say that favours the notion of not wiping out the Forsaken.

  13. #173
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Oh no I don't deny they loathe them. Doesn't mean they will wipe them out though. If the imprisonment of the Orcs is anything to go by then given the choice the Alliance would rather lock them up than have further blood on their hands. The Orcs were alien monsters hell bent on killing them and weren't culled, I'd say that favours the notion of not wiping out the Forsaken.
    The orcs were still living though, they had children and a future so to speak. Something humans could relate to, they might have been aliens but they were still natural, forsaken on the other hand have nothing like that, they are walking corpses, that slaughtered them and can't have children, they have a choice indeed lock them up for decades or centuries, spending enormous sums on something that isn't alive or restore order.

    I might look to deep into it, but I seriously doubt humanity would spare the forsaken, if they had the chance.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Oh no I don't deny they loathe them. Doesn't mean they will wipe them out though. If the imprisonment of the Orcs is anything to go by then given the choice the Alliance would rather lock them up than have further blood on their hands. The Orcs were alien monsters hell bent on killing them and weren't culled, I'd say that favours the notion of not wiping out the Forsaken.
    And then this happened:

    Varian: Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked. The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come. I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde...

    Pretty safe to say their attitude has changed. And there were still kingdoms that wanted to kill all the orcs in the first place. Plus, the Forsaken have done worse than the orcs. It's the whole Forsaken and UC thing that even pushed Varian so far to say that.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-06-22 at 09:20 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    And then this happened:

    Varian: Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked. The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come. I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde...

    Pretty safe to say their attitude has changed. And there were still kingdoms that wanted to kill all the orcs in the first place. Plus, the Forsaken have done worse than the orcs. It's the whole Forsaken and UC thing that even pushed Varian so far to say that.
    Then Jaina intervened. The two quotes I've been given from you a CB both come from Varian Pre-Wolfheart. As it stands with Varian, Jaina and Anduin pretty much being at the helm of the Alliance can you truly believe that all three would wish to exterminate them? The only one out of the three that would even consider such action would be Jaina (sad to say given her actions during the Battle for UC) and even then her hatred seems entirely directed at Garrosh and the Sunreavers.

    There will always be those grunts in the Alliance that will want the Forsaken wiped out. But at this moment in time the leadership of the Alliance would be opposed to it.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    But at this moment in time the leadership of the Alliance would be opposed to it.
    With the church of light having great deal of influence in leadership and nature-loving mutants that kill anything remotely unnatural, I highly doubt it.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

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