Nazgrim audio

[LilSaihah]

Basically his honor stops him from directly opposing Garrosh, so he does what he can through you. But in the end, he is still a soldier and honor-bound to fight to the death for his Warchief.

i thought honor was important

isn't undermining your lord by attempting to assist in the formation of a rebel faction a dishonorable act

[Deleted]

I hate to point out how poor a turn this is, but come on Blizzard, this is amateur writing.

Sadly, I think this is literally true. I don't think anyone but Metzen, who is literally an amateur writer as well as an amateur voice actor, is allowed to do the writing for this kind of stuff. Which is a shame because Metzen is awesome in all sorts of ways and has created most of the Warcft Universe, which he deserves immense credit for. But sadly he isn't a good writer, especially not a good dialogue writer.

Of course, I could be wrong and maybe they have a whole bunch of qualified writers who mysteriously keep embarassing themselves over and over again for these key moments... But you know. The odds are stacked against it.

[Seyna Starstrider]

Most of the Domination Point quests are "So Garrosh shouldn't know about this, go meet Baine or Vol'jin or Lor'themar. Discretion is key." That is counteracting Garrosh's command.

Incorrect. Nazgrim during the Domination Point quests mentions NOTHING about Vol'jin, or a rebellion, or him having knowledge of a rebellion or Vol'jin, and he never makes mention of turning against Garrosh. Anything related to Vol'jin during the DP quests were through the mailbox. When Baine or Lor'themar get involved, Nazgrim just says, "Hey, Baine's looking for you. Go see him." or "I got this sealed communication with orders which I am to give to you. Here you go." Besides those, Nazgrim's quests are orders from Garrosh.

I can understand that Nazgrim wouldn't completely undermine Garrosh, but for a soldier who's seen the dangers of all out warfare and has fought under multiple Warchiefs, to have him die needlessly defending his honor protecting a Warchief he knows to be wrong is dumb. Honor does not work that way. They could have built up Nazgrim's character better to have him truly misguided, but instead they toed the line of understanding, then tossed him to the side no one wanted to see at the last second despite any true deciding factors.

Honor doesn't work that way? Then tell me, how DOES honor work then? People have different ideas and definitions of honor. Why does -YOUR- opinion on what is honorable trump all others?

Nazgrim has always been shown to be loyal to Garrosh, and NAZGRIM'S idea of honor is to do his duty, and stand beside the Horde and Warchief he has sworn an oath to serve with his life, even if he may not always agree or like what Garrosh or the Horde has done. The only real hint we even get that he might not have been happy with Garrosh's rule or knew that Garrosh was possibly wrong is what he says when he is -dying-. "I stood by the Warchief because it was my duty, but I'm glad it was you who struck me down. Use that strength to lead the Horde to a new era of prosperity."

[Rhiziana]

I promised myself i wouldnt cry on my birthday......

Nazgrim died an honorable death, and may he be never forgotten.

[MikeBogina]

They should have thrown in a quest where Garrosh orders Nazgrim to attack innocent people or something, so that he would turn on him. What a waste of a good character :/

[Aschark]

I think the writing for Nazgrim is rather excellent, considering.

We've seen countless threads of late about people wanting to support the Warchief and live up to their oaths. Countless members of the Horde playerbase have thought to themselves, can we turn our backs on our oath? Garrosh has done what cannot be forgiven, and as such many have risen up against him. Leaders, people with power and of different races and infrastructure- but an orc? This is someone who has not outright been discriminated against, and while he can uneasily feel what is happening, he himself does not have the ferocity against Garrosh to break something as sacred as his oath.

Consider this anecdote: http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/...thNJ580pxw.JPG

History would side with Nazgrim's choices. He is not an outsider, and he has not been legitimately wronged in any way. His unease is based on feeling, and as a soldier he cannot simply go against Garrosh due to "feeling". In retrospect, Garrosh probably would have no one from the Horde amassing against him if not for his attempted murder of Vol'jin. There simply was nothing to truly bring against him before that event. Theramore and other atrocities do not affect the Horde, Cairne was an accident and his attitude towards other races is hardly worthy of a full-scale uprising.

Nazgrim is an orc who has served the Horde and its Warchiefs loyally for many years. He's set in his ways and cannot betray the Horde even if he wanted to. He knows what he is doing is wrong, but he has an oath to uphold. If anything, Nazgrim is someone who is stronger of character than anyone else in the Horde. Thrall appointed Garrosh as Warchief of the Horde, and to the Horde, the Warchief is all. He wants more than anything for the Horde to flourish, and even in his last breaths he is hopeful that his vanquishers (if Horde) will lead the Horde into a new and better era.

"You have learned much, and learned well. An honorable battle- in the end I stood by the Warchief because it was my duty, and I am glad that it was you that struck me down. May your strength lead the Horde... into a new era... of pros...perity..."

I am genuinely saddened by this character's death. And that is the crux of the matter, regardless. The capability to create a character that can evoke emotion in the eyes of the reader (or gamer, as it may) is the hallmark of good writing. Lok'tar ogar, Nazgrim.

[Kioshi]

Nazgrim, why why do you have to be so noble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWjDYz2ldN0

[Soulstrike]

/salute Nazgrim :/

[Tiago]

The capability to create a character that can evoke emotion in the eyes of the reader (or gamer, as it may) is the hallmark of good writing. Lok'tar ogar, Nazgrim.

Couldn't agree more.

[Deleted]

Deeply impressed at how he passes. People have said 'Why did he stand by Garrosh even though he must have known what he was doing was wrong' or words to that effect. But sadly History is replete with people who have stood by their oaths of office and duty whilst in the service of tyrants and dictators because to them, their oath, their word, their honour was more important. Just look at the German General Staff in WW2. Whilst a good many were card carrying Nazi's who didn't give a damn about Russians, Jews etc, there were also those who served, despite personal misgivings, knowing just who and what they were part of and who they served. But they served because they had sworn an oath and felt honour bound to do their duty. Thats what Nazgrim is doing, he may have personal misgivings about what is going on, and may harbour private thoughts about Garrosh that if said out loud would end up with him executed, but he's doing his duty out of a sense of (misguided) honour and duty.

[Deleted]

I hate to point out how poor a turn this is, but come on Blizzard, this is amateur writing.

No character sits there and talks about how much his ideals counteract everything. If he's aware of his honor, than he's aware of Garrosh's crimes. Are you insinuating that Baine and Vol'jin and Lor'themar don't have honor? Or are you saying Nazgrim doesn't understand honor?

It's shitty writing. It reads like fanfic trying to justify the death of a popular character.

If you want Nazgrim to die in SoO, and if you want him to die while still being likable, don't justify it. Make him take honor to his dying breath.

I do love Nazgrim, I'll admit it. But his character has been built to be one of the most understanding of Horde leaders, especially in the early Pandaria quests, and to have him involved in all the background quests of the DO, while not understanding what he's doing, is insulting.

Nazgrim represents the same shitty arc that Garrosh demonstrated. Build him up to be something, then tear him down without any true demonstration.

TL : DR: No one is as crazy about honor as Nazgrim. No one sympathizes with the enemy when it comes to honor, and then dies for it. It's a fucking shitty writing trope. Let Nazgrim live. Let his character arc actually advance the way you've built it.

TL : DR/TL : D R: As a writer, Nazgrim dying is a fucking copout and Blizzard should be ashamed.

Its shitty writing because they decided to kill a character you cared for, doesn't your caring for him imply a good written character ?

He is an Orc, there is no thing more important in the world of Orcs than Honor, its the only thing worth dieing for and he died like a warrior on the battlefield.

You want him to carry on after his Warchief Garrosh has fallen, a broken man without the leader he tried to impress the whole game long.

He and every other soldier of the Horde are bound by blood to the Warchief, he's the epitome of what a blood oath to Orc's means, fighting for his warchief to the death, no matter what happens.

You want him to cop out and run away from the ONE THING that he actually cared for his whole life.

I rather salute him in death than see him broken after the Siege of Orgrimmar with no will to carry on.

[foxHeart]

Nazgrim has always been shown to be loyal to Garrosh, and NAZGRIM'S idea of honor is to do his duty, and stand beside the Horde and Warchief he has sworn an oath to serve with his life, even if he may not always agree or like what Garrosh or the Horde has done. The only real hint we even get that he might not have been happy with Garrosh's rule or knew that Garrosh was possibly wrong is what he says when he is -dying-. "I stood by the Warchief because it was my duty, but I'm glad it was you who struck me down. Use that strength to lead the Horde to a new era of prosperity."

So in other words, if one were to ask Nazgrim, "Well, geez Nazgrim, if Garrosh jumped off a bridge, would you jump, too?" then his answer would inevitably be yes. As for all this blind, fanatical devotion to an organization just for devotion's sake? That's just silly, no matter how you spin it. His goal should have been to preserve an ideal, not be arbitrarily loyal to whomever was in office no matter how depraved the warchief was at the time. He threw away his life for no reason, honestly, but the emotional attachment people have to him stop them from seeing that. Instead, only the melodrama and sadness of his death speech speaks to them and makes them react.

[Confirm Deny]

Wait, the guy who did Nazgrim did Putress in Wrath? http://www.wowpedia.org/David_Lodge

Well, that's interesting. I like the delivery of the lines themselves, I guess, but some of the shouted ones sounded odd to me. Good regular voice, though.

[Tazkar]

So in other words, if one were to ask Nazgrim, "Well, geez Nazgrim, if Garrosh jumped off a bridge, would you jump, too?" then his answer would inevitably be yes. As for all this blind, fanatical devotion to an organization just for devotion's sake? That's just silly, no matter how you spin it. His goal should have been to preserve an ideal, not be arbitrarily loyal to whomever was in office no matter how depraved the warchief was at the time. He threw away his life for no reason, honestly, but the emotional attachment people have to him stop them from seeing that. Instead, only the melodrama and sadness of his death speech speaks to them and makes them react.

"Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!"

So yes by your Blood Oath to the Horde you are honorbound to serve Garrosh even if you don't like him, his desires, or his goals. Because you swore an Oath to the be his Weapon, his instrument, his desire, for the Horde.

If you are a member of the Horde, the Warchief is THE Warchief, you are loyal to him because he is THE Warchief, not because you like him, not because you respect his decisions or desires, but because he is THE Warchief.

This is not President Garrosh Hellscream we're talking about, or Prime Minister Garrosh Hellscream, or King Garrosh Hellscream

This is WARCHIEF Garrosh Hellscream, your oath and duty demands loyalty to him for that reason alone and no other. So yes if Garrosh told you to jump off a bridge, your response is "Where do you want me to land Warchief?" Not "Why?" Or "No."

That is why Nazgrim didn't turn on Garrosh, because he was and is the epitome of what it means to be a loyal honorable soldier of the horde. You are the weapon of your warchief's desires. And its not bad writing for him doing it, to some people loyalty matters and they stand by their commitments even when they know logically that they shouldn't, but they still do because they gave their word that they would.

[foxHeart]

That is why Nazgrim didn't turn on Garrosh, because he was and is the epitome of what it means to be a loyal honorable soldier of the horde. You are the weapon of your warchief's desires. And its not bad writing for him doing it, to some people loyalty matters and they stand by their commitments even when they know logically that they shouldn't, but they still do because they gave their word that they would.

To believe one is still honorable when they are knowingly enabling a genocidal maniac to further his goals is an exceptionally quaint, barbaric, and simple-minded notion.

[Tazkar]

To believe one is still honorable when they are knowingly enabling a genocidal maniac to further his goals is an exceptionally quaint, barbaric, and simple-minded notion.

Its all about the word he gave, its why some people are very careful about giving their word because once they give it they will never break it. Nazgrim was honestly a simple soldier, he held to his duty and the oath he swore because he gave his word.

And ah...looking at the horde their is a lot of 'barbaric' 'simple notions' going on, this isn't the modern world we're talking about here where we have the free will to question anything we want. The Horde is a much different beast.

[leaks]

To believe one is still honorable when they are knowingly enabling a genocidal maniac to further his goals is an exceptionally quaint, barbaric, and simple-minded notion.

Well then it's a good thing this about an orc in a fantasy world and not a 21st century, 1st world human.

[Deleted]

... exceptionally quaint, barbaric, and simple-minded ...

So you're suggesting Nazgrim is some kind of orc?

:P

[Seyna Starstrider]

Silly people, thinking that EVERYTHING, whether it is fictional or real life, has to follow modern day Western ideals. It's not like there are OTHER viewpoints and OTHER cultures with THEIR OWN definitions of honor, loyalty, and service.

[Zaelsino]

That's such a stinger. I really like Nazgrim.

Though to be fair, him going out like a champ only makes me like him more. It's a good death with a good message.