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  1. #101
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I just want to draw everyones attention to this, rather then make a new thread.

    Honestly, when seeing garrosh transformed into the old god mutated thing he becomes at the end of mists, I told myself 'oh yeah, he's going down for sure', even though despite up until now, I wasn't sure what blizzard was going to do, if they intended to let him live or die.
    And with the 5.4 data released, I told myself it, but in a weird way, I still had a mild doubt about it too, and I dare say the garrosh fans thought it as well.

    But, Good old Wrathion comes in, and clears up any doubt I had.

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/quests/33105-ju...e-black-prince

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    The way the human mind works is it sometimes finds it hard to seperate 'story' and 'reality'. I hate Garrosh the same way I'd hate someone who really existed. If someone likes Garrosh (instead of finding him interesting or funny because he's so evil and twisted) I get very, very uneasy.
    Someone who says this makes me far more uneasy than someone saying they like fictional villains. The human mind needs to be good at separating Story and Reality, especially the mind of gamers. The industry is built on trusting the ability of people of all ages to separate fantasy and reality, because if the person's mind can't, then the player is going on guilt-free, merciless killing sprees — and often with horrific means. If we didn't know that the separation of Fantasy and Reality was so basic and fundamental, we could hardly justify the existence of games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You know, like I said on another thread, all the evidence I need is there in the sound files, where Garrosh in his dying breath tells you, he saw a vision of him standing on a mountain of skulls and rivers running with blood, how he saw the world being his.

    There is nothing good in Garrosh by the end, he's another psycho.
    Even if Garrosh is wielding the power of Y'Shaarj, rather than being controlled by it, do you really think he was entirely uneffected by it? Anger, Hatred, Pride? Don't you think those could give such an insane delusion? Trassk, I give you that most of the time you form your points well, and you're normally really quite impartial, but when it comes to Garrosh you have your blinders on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    "Don't talk back to me, troll. You know who was left in charge here. Haven't you stopped to ask yourself why Thrall chose me instead of you?"

    Seriously, da fuck? By the statement is clear that Vol'jin just suggested or criticized something, he just talked back, like he did with Thrall for years, but Garrosh responded in the most idiotic way imaginable, marking him as troll, saying that Vol'jin doesn't have to "talk back to him" and beginning to foolishly validate the fact that he doesn't have to listen him because he's the Warchief, working of imagination about all the epic reasons for which Thrall chose him, while in fact Thrall chose Garrosh for shortage of alternatives, it's stated clearly in the Shattering.
    You assume that Vol'Jin was giving advice in any sort of constructive advice/criticism — a narrative you invented — based on the way Vol'Jin was acting we have no reason to believe he was being anything but belligerent. I know the people who hated Garrosh even then love this conversation, but unless we see more it shows Vol'Jin 100% in the wrong. No two ways about it. We can't make judgments on evidence we don't have, and this is the part Vol'Jin thought cast him in the best light... what does that say.
    Mage T13 is alright, I guess. It's a bit bland and doesn't really say Mage but there is nothing that looks really bad about it...

    Except that it as a clockwork, orange set.

  3. #103
    that the warsong clan now gets finished, basicly, isn't a good thing by any means. Also garrosh turned 180 degrees for mop, while he was quite a good leader in cata. I am disgusted.

  4. #104
    Scarab Lord Jaxi's Avatar
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    Trassk this has been argued many, many, many times. Are you absolutely incapable of understanding that it is his "bad guy" qualities that attract us to him?

    Warcraft is, above all else, a story. Stories with only holier-than-thou-goodie-two-shoe characters are boring as hell. It's characters like Garrosh that give depth and moral ambiguity to the game. Do I like the decisions he has made as a member of the horde? No, but I'm not a member of the horde, I'm a guy sitting behind a computer screen. I'm the audience, and this audience member likes the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  5. #105
    Garrosh was cool...until Blizz turned him into a hollow and typical orc and pretty much killed him off as quickly as they added him into lore.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    Trassk this has been argued many, many, many times. Are you absolutely incapable of understanding that it is his "bad guy" qualities that attract us to him?

    Warcraft is, above all else, a story. Stories with only holier-than-thou-goodie-two-shoe characters are boring as hell. It's characters like Garrosh that give depth and moral ambiguity to the game. Do I like the decisions he has made as a member of the horde? No, but I'm not a member of the horde, I'm a guy sitting behind a computer screen. I'm the audience, and this audience member likes the story.
    Does he really have depth and moral ambiguity though? What redeeming values has Garrosh had since the start of Mists of Pandaria?

    He's made out purely as a villain, without the Horde's best interest at heart.

  7. #107
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faerillis View Post
    You assume that Vol'Jin was giving advice in any sort of constructive advice/criticism — a narrative you invented — based on the way Vol'Jin was acting we have no reason to believe he was being anything but belligerent. I know the people who hated Garrosh even then love this conversation, but unless we see more it shows Vol'Jin 100% in the wrong. No two ways about it. We can't make judgments on evidence we don't have, and this is the part Vol'Jin thought cast him in the best light... what does that say.
    Oh please, I could say the same of people that loved Garrosh too much for what he wasn't and desperatily try to twist things, especially about that dialogue, and you are one of the deluded if you think that the whole conversation mark Vol'jin as 100% wrong. Seriously, how can you even try to argue that? How can be justified Garrosh for having declared that all the trolls in Orgrimmar had to be sent into the slums? If he had personal matters with Vol'jin, were just with him. So much people pissing about the "arrow in the black heart" when Garrosh has been the first to throw a deadly threat ("You are lucky that I don't gut you right here, whelp") but people seems to justify it because, you know, is the Warchief, he can do that. Sure.

    Sorry but there is reason for belive that Garrosh didn't have any kind of serious justification for acting like an arrogant douchebag, he said "don't talk back to me", seriously, is excatly like an adult treat an "unrespectful" child, and we had more than one evidence that Garrosh's concept of "unrespect" is whismical and pompous, plus he added the title "troll" that was unecessary and just showed his biased, further showed by his illogical decision of kick all the trolls into the slums of Orgrimmar "because". How can you argue that Vol'jin was belligerent all the time if what has been undeniably showed to us is Garrosh's behavior, blatantly full of himself and the first to be showed undeniably unrespectful and arrogant, that triggered Vol'jin's reaction, and YOU have no ground to prove otherwise.

    But, most importantly, we already knew by Heart of War how Garrosh was easy to prejudice based on ignorance, and how he was the first to mock and be unrespectful without provocation, attacking Vol'jin in the Elemental Unrest meeting excatly for the arguments he elaborated in his head in the short-story. Sorry, but here is you the one that is inventing narrative, not me. We don't need to see anything else for understand who between two guys that made mistakes, who made the worst, with the worst basis and mentality.

    Since, by the way, you complained how about Garrosh began to "change" by your ideal concept of him in Wolfheart, you should keep in mind that the events in Wolfheart happened BEFORE those in Cataclysm, which is the expansion that, for unknown reasons, Garrosh is the best of the best. Just think about it.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-26 at 02:08 AM.

  8. #108
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Oh please, I could say the same of people that loved Garrosh too much for what he wasn't and desperatily try to twist things, especially about that dialogue, and you are one of the deluded if you think that the whole conversation mark Vol'jin as 100% wrong. Seriously, how can you even try to argue that? How can be justified Garrosh for having declared that all the trolls in Orgrimmar had to be sent into the slums? If he had personal matters with Vol'jin, were just with him. So much people pissing about the "arrow in the black heart" when Garrosh has been the first to throw a deadly threat ("You are lucky that I don't gut you right here, whelp") but people seems to justify it because, you know, is the Warchief, he can do that. Sure.

    Sorry but there is reason for belive that Garrosh didn't have any of serious justification for acting like an arrogant douchebag, he said "don't talk back to me", seriously, is excatly like an adult treat an "unrespectful" child, and we had more than one evidence that Garrosh's concept of "unrespect" is whismical and pompous, plus he added the title "troll" that was unecessary and just showed his biased, further showed by his illogical decision of kick all the trolls into the slums of Orgrimmar "because". How can you argue that Vol'jin was belligerent all the time if what has been undeniably showed to us is Garrosh's behavior, blatantly full of himself and the first to be showed undeniably unrespectful and arrogant, that triggered Vol'jin's reaction, and YOU have no ground to prove otherwise.

    But, most importantly, we already knew by Heart of War how Garrosh was easy to prejudice based on ignorance, and how he was the first to mock and be unrespectful without provocation, attacking Vol'jin in the Elemental Unrest meeting excatly for the arguments he elaborated in his head in the short-story. Sorry, but here is you the one that is inventing narrative, not me. We don't need to see anything else for understand who between two guys that made mistakes, who made the worst, with the worst basis and mentality.

    Since, by the way, you complained how about Garrosh began to "change" by your ideal concept of him in Wolfheart, you should keep in mind that the events in Wolfheart happen BEFORE of those in Cataclysm, which is the expansion that for unknown reasons Garrosh is the best of the best. Just think about it.

    Not only that also some people forget that the fact Vol'jin got enraged and threat Garrosh it was because Garrosh mocked and disrespect him in orgimmar front of Thrall when he was picking Garrosh as the new warchief.

  9. #109
    I remember a time when we were all united in our hatred of Garrosh. Now I'm starting to wonder if the playerbase just hates change of any kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
    I should have stopped reading there, because I should have known someone comparing "The Lord of the Rings" with shitty Blizzard writing has no clue.
    Dunno why that's a bad comparison seeing as Warcraft is traditional fantasy and therefore owes an awful lot to Tolkien (the existence of its entire genre, plus most of the key concepts of its universe).

    But it's absurd to compare the writing in a book to the writing in a video game. Drastically different mediums.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-26 at 02:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    Trassk this has been argued many, many, many times. Are you absolutely incapable of understanding that it is his "bad guy" qualities that attract us to him?

    Warcraft is, above all else, a story. Stories with only holier-than-thou-goodie-two-shoe characters are boring as hell. It's characters like Garrosh that give depth and moral ambiguity to the game. Do I like the decisions he has made as a member of the horde? No, but I'm not a member of the horde, I'm a guy sitting behind a computer screen. I'm the audience, and this audience member likes the story.
    He doesn't really have moral ambiguity. Sylvanas is a good example of that. Garrosh is just an aggressive jerk who doesn't think ahead. Or behind. Or at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #110
    Dreadlord Zorua's Avatar
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    I dare say some of you may still anyway, and some might even say you like the idea of a character that fucks up other characrters stories, that you like this kind of character for whatever your reason.
    Like...Thrall?
    I went there.

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