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  1. #1

    Possible new CLass Role?

    Hi everyone! As the title says, I saw this tweet from GC on the main page.

    "Interesting, thanks! Followup: could you see WoW as ever having a class with a role other than tank/heal/dps in the future?
    Yes, but it would be a big change. Another challenge for the blogs and forums out there to discuss."

    So.... What do you think?

    Would be very interesting!

  2. #2

  3. #3
    What could the other role possibly be?

    Only thing I could think of is some sort of buffer class that channels other raid members to increase certain stats for the duration of the channeled spell. It could slot into the mail int gear category because Shammies are the only one to use it. Would be a boring as hell role though.

  4. #4
    There are only two more possible roles out there, that of the buffer (like in FFXI - Bard) or the controller (Like in COH). The problem with the buffer is that it has to give such severe buffs that it can make up for the loss of a dps and yet be balanced in a 25 man setting.

    The controller tends to not do a lot of DPS but they are capable of locking down mobs or re-arranging the battlefield to your particular advantage, like in COH I had a gravity controller who could practically turn every battle into a breeze. Typically fights there were a swarm consisting of a mini-boss, 3 lieutenants and 10-12 grunts, as gravity controller I would lift all of my enemies up in the air so they could not fight back for 8 seconds, then when they broke free I would black hole all of them from one location up against the top of a wall so not only did they spend time falling and taking falling damage but they were all stunned for 5 seconds while also grouped up for aoe attacks, it was also useful if you got ambushed from behind, pop they were now stunned and placed on the tank. Then I could lift the boss up in the air and hold him while fighting, snare them all so they could not leave part of the battlefield and push them away from me with a force bubble that would trap them in a corner of the room for aoe and so melee could not punch us. The controller was a very useful character that you wanted to have on your team, a bad one made the fights easier and a great one could turn every fight into a practice dummy fight.

    In FFXI you only really knew how useful a bard was when they left the group and all the fights slowed down signifigantly.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffy View Post
    What could the other role possibly be?

    Only thing I could think of is some sort of buffer class that channels other raid members to increase certain stats for the duration of the channeled spell. It could slot into the mail int gear category because Shammies are the only one to use it. Would be a boring as hell role though.
    There's already games with that, and they're usually rather fun to play (Rift Bard, gw1 Paragon) but they also usually have decent damage output.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    There's already games with that, and they're usually rather fun to play (Rift Bard, gw1 Paragon) but they also usually have decent damage output.
    World of Warcraft used to have them.

    They were called hybrids.

  7. #7
    look at the TBC shaman model. They used to be in game, homoing it all blizzard removed them.

  8. #8
    I wouldn't mind playing a controller/debuffer, specially if it was also true minion class (like the Necromancer in Diablo 3). The problem is that those classes are hell to balance properly, since they're force multipliers. A group without and debuffers/controllers would have a hard time with content tuned for groups with those classes, but a group with more of them than designed could probably either trivialize encounters or bypass mechanics entirely. And that's not even getting into PvP!
    Trying to argue anything with any sort of nuance over Twitter is the intellectual equivalent of trying to trying to squeeze a cow through a keyhole. Sure, you might even be able to do it with enough brute force, and whatever comes out the other side might even still be considered to be "cow" in the technical sense, but it will be so mangled as to be completely unrecognizable.

  9. #9
    I seriously hope Blizzard stays away from rigid class roles of old. I don't want paladin healers (because it makes sense that the class in plate is in the back healing, amirite?).

    However, I want them to go back to their roots with a slight modification in their class design philosophy to bring classes closer to the Rift system (not talking about the whole soul system; rather about the whole support role, which many think it's a gimped dps/tank/heal spec with buffs, which is not in Rift).

    For example, when WoW was in development (I'm talking early development) paladins were supposed to be "secondary tanks (secondary as in "not as good as warrior tanks") with off-heals and heavy support spells designed to outlast opponents." This is fine and dandy, but when you anchor a class to such a rigid system, it's not fun. That's why WoW moved away from that, but instead made Ret paladins DPS powerhouses with little support or heals, Prot paladins tanking powerhouses with little support or heals, and Holy paladins healing powerhouses with little else.

    So I'd like WoW to go back to said roots, and apply the Rift design a bit, so as to make the new paladin (for example and in comparison to early development WoW paladin) a "class able to take hits with capable heals and support spells, while being able to dish out decent damage" from "secondary tanks with off-heals and heavy support spells designed to outlast opponents."

    That'd make me jump of joy.
    Really sucks if they start to limit their vision for an expansion just to get the next one out faster.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ArMeD_SuRvIvOr View Post
    I seriously hope Blizzard stays away from rigid class roles of old. I don't want paladin healers (because it makes sense that the class in plate is in the back healing, amirite?).
    No, it doesn't make any sense at all since paladin healers Should with Holy Seal melee to regen mana. Something tells me you put 0 hours into actually healing as a Paladin. Amirite? Its not even like no one has ever heard of a heavily armored paladin healing others with his holy powers, in fact its a staple that goes back to Gary Gygax and Dungeons and dragons for over 50 years.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    No, it doesn't make any sense at all since paladin healers Should with Holy Seal melee to regen mana. Something tells me you put 0 hours into actually healing as a Paladin. Amirite? Its not even like no one has ever heard of a heavily armored paladin healing others with his holy powers, in fact its a staple that goes back to Gary Gygax and Dungeons and dragons for over 50 years.
    Haha, you're missing the point! I'm talking about classic WoW, where paladins ended up being priests in plate, instead of using their whole array of abilities. In fact, in beta WoW paladins had a "Holy Strike" and a "Crusader Strike". Sadly, those were removed before release.

    Also, way to nitpick and bash me for no reason instead of actually reading my earlier post. -.-
    Really sucks if they start to limit their vision for an expansion just to get the next one out faster.

  12. #12
    Utility role.

    Every class has utility that they bring to the raid, the obvious and most popular one is dispels. Others include hero, battle-rez, void shift, etc. There are probably many dozens of different utility spells spread amongst all the classes, and quite often encounters require certain utilities to be present (the most obvious being interrupts and dispels).

    If these spells were somewhat stripped from (but not entirely) most the existing classes and given to some other classes that could then fall into the utility class, that would be a good change imo.

    For example, a Mage has always been thought of as a pure dps class. Besides hero and perhaps removed curse, they have no real utility abilities. If every other dps class was more like a mage, apart from some (e.g. Shadow Priest, Paladin, etc) then there would be a clearly defined utility role. A utility role would provide the majority of dispels, mana generating abilities (Hymn of Hope), damage reduction (Anti-magic zone, etc) instead of the various dps classes that already exist.

    Obviously a utility role would also include dps and / or healing, as well as just providing utility.
    Last edited by stiglet; 2013-06-20 at 04:00 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ArMeD_SuRvIvOr View Post
    Haha, you're missing the point! I'm talking about classic WoW, where paladins ended up being priests in plate, instead of using their whole array of abilities. In fact, in beta WoW paladins had a "Holy Strike" and a "Crusader Strike". Sadly, those were removed before release.

    Also, way to nitpick and bash me for no reason instead of actually reading my earlier post. -.-
    Sorry, its hard to get past the BS you were spewing at the beginning, we both might want to look into that, and by both of us I mean you.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    I'd like to see a 'support' role. Where one has to keep up buffs and still do average-above average dps - but it's main goal should be debuffer/buffer. and if support dies, the encounters would get harder etc...

    I recall reading a blue post concerning a fourth role a few years back.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Sorry, its hard to get past the BS you were spewing at the beginning, we both might want to look into that, and by both of us I mean you.
    Dude, wow. Stop getting pissy. You missed the point of my first paragraph. It's fine if you like holy, and I like holy too but I provided more perspective in my second post, which you choose to ignore now. =/

    Stop getting pissy over some nonsense that wasn't meant to upset anybody, and that was in fact meant to start my post. Consider it a joke, if you will.

    Now you're going to say you're not pissy and that "you're calling me out on my BS yet again", are you not? Just stop.
    Really sucks if they start to limit their vision for an expansion just to get the next one out faster.

  16. #16
    If there was to be a buff role, then they would be limited to buffing at most 4 others at a time, probably less. It would most likely be a hybrid who can empower various members of the raid as needed. Big tank hit coming? Empower the tank. Big raid wide damage coming, empower a healer. DPS push? Empower the DPS. Possibly combine this with active debuffs as well (e.g. a debuf that causes the next 200K worth of damage within 10 seonds on the target to be copied to a nearby target). The primary idea is that gear needs to scale the power of the buffs and debuffs.

    The other option would be a role that is only viable in pvp, and I just don't see them doing it.

    Ultimately I don't see this happen unless they add a 4th spec to classes, where 1/2 of them gain this role as their 4th spec.

  17. #17
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Buffer/Debuffer would almost certainly be that role.

    The biggest drawback is it would be hard to measure, as it's benefit is from making everyone ELSE do more Damage/Healing.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  18. #18
    Everquest had 4 roles if I'm right. Tank, Heals, DD (DPS), CC.

    WoW used to have CC too, but that went away in Wrath.

    Always wanted to play a CC "controller" class. Started a Warlock for that, then found out they aren't really that good at it - fear is dangerous and unpredictable (more or less the opposite of "control") and seduce is unreliable at best. Finally went back to the class I originally thought of playing before second guessing myself, Mage (more specifically, Frost Mage). Never been happier. That said, my CC capabilities are rarely utilised in group settings - I notice the more practice I become at "raiding", relying on the tank to keep everything under control, the more my CC "skills" go into decline.

  19. #19
    Sodium is correct. Everquest had four roles: Tank, Healer, DPS, and Crowd Control

    The CC class was either an Enchanter or Shaman. The enchanter could incapacitate enemies, while also providing a very significant mana regen buff to the group. The Shaman had various stat buffs and short duration buffs. Both classes could greatly increase attack speed on the group, and decrease attack speed on the enemy.

  20. #20
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fps90 View Post
    Sodium is correct. Everquest had four roles: Tank, Healer, DPS, and Crowd Control

    The CC class was either an Enchanter or Shaman. The enchanter could incapacitate enemies, while also providing a very significant mana regen buff to the group. The Shaman had various stat buffs and short duration buffs. Both classes could greatly increase attack speed on the group, and decrease attack speed on the enemy.
    Sounds more buffing and debuffing than CC.

    But CC is a very very much thankless and noticeless job.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


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