1. #1

    Crafting in Hearthstone

    A blog post was just released with some explanation about crafting and some of the more interesting details about the actual costs. The article on the official forums: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/...rust-6-20-2013

    The most interesting bit, if you allready know how the crafting works and WHY we have the crafting system in HS:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Here’s the breakdown of how much Arcane Dust you get from each card rarity:

    Common (White) Cards – Disenchant for 5 Arcane Dust / Craft a Common card for 40 Arcane Dust
    Rare (Blue) Cards – Disenchant for 20 Arcane Dust / Craft a Rare card for 100 Arcane Dust
    Epic (Purple) Cards – Disenchant for 100 Arcane Dust / Craft an Epic card for 400 Arcane Dust
    Legendary (Orange) Cards – Disenchant for 400 Arcane Dust / Craft a Legendary card for 1600 Arcane Dust

    Let’s take a look at how much Arcane Dust you’ll need to craft Golden cards!

    Common Golden Cards – Disenchant for 50 Arcane Dust / Craft a Golden Common card for 400 Arcane Dust
    Rare Golden Cards – Disenchant for 100 Arcane Dust / Craft a Golden Rare card for 800 Arcane Dust
    Epic Golden Cards – Disenchant for 400 Arcane Dust / Craft a Golden Epic card for 1600 Arcane Dust
    Legendary Golden Cards – Disenchant for 1600 Arcane Dust / Craft a Legendary Golden card for 3200 Arcane Dust

    To be honest, these conversion rates scare the hell out of me. Ratios ranging from 1 to 8, all the way to 1 to 4, for the normal cards. 1600 dust for a Legendary, made by disenchanting common cards worth 5, would take you a mindboggeling 320 cards disenchanted!

    I knew the crafting system was going to be with bad conversions to keep people playing and buying packs, but this is kinda over the top, I personally feel.

    Much will depend on how often we get rare/epic/legendary cards by opening packs in the game, cause they will both take a load of your crafting needs AND provide much needed Arcane Dust if they are cards you do not need.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    to me this is very happy news!

    I expected much worse and abusive prices because, let's face it: if getting cards from crafting was a better option than packs, than packs would be boring, because there's an easy and safe option to get the cards you want.

    no, packs are the focus, and crafting is the protection against terrible luck. it's there to save you from buying ten, twenty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a million packs and never getting the golden Lord Jaraxxus you wanted.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    to me this is very happy news!

    I expected much worse and abusive prices because, let's face it: if getting cards from crafting was a better option than packs, than packs would be boring, because there's an easy and safe option to get the cards you want.

    no, packs are the focus, and crafting is the protection against terrible luck. it's there to save you from buying ten, twenty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a million packs and never getting the golden Lord Jaraxxus you wanted.
    Let's assume the bulk of the packs you open contain the minimum of what's advertised, at least 1 rare. That means most packs will contain 4 common cards and 1 rare card. Disenchanting that gives you 4*5 = 20 + 20 for the rare = 40 dust. You need 3200 dust to craft that Golden Lord Jaraxxus you want. That means you need 80 packs worth of disenchanting materials to craft it. At 1$ a pack that means your golden Lord Jaraxxus has a price of 80$.

    Still think this is a good conversion rate?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Let's assume the bulk of the packs you open contain the minimum of what's advertised, at least 1 rare. That means most packs will contain 4 common cards and 1 rare card. Disenchanting that gives you 4*5 = 20 + 20 for the rare = 40 dust. You need 3200 dust to craft that Golden Lord Jaraxxus you want. That means you need 80 packs worth of disenchanting materials to craft it. At 1$ a pack that means your golden Lord Jaraxxus has a price of 80$.

    Still think this is a good conversion rate?
    much better than I expected. also: you can buy packs with gold. if you buy half of them with gold and half of them with real money, that goes down to 40. if you buy them all with gold, it's 0 bucks given on that day
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Let's assume the bulk of the packs you open contain the minimum of what's advertised, at least 1 rare. That means most packs will contain 4 common cards and 1 rare card. Disenchanting that gives you 4*5 = 20 + 20 for the rare = 40 dust. You need 3200 dust to craft that Golden Lord Jaraxxus you want. That means you need 80 packs worth of disenchanting materials to craft it. At 1$ a pack that means your golden Lord Jaraxxus has a price of 80$.

    Still think this is a good conversion rate?
    Yes, because A. you don't need a golden Jaraxxus, and B. cards are supposed to have a certain rarity to them, because that's part of the allure to card games; and C. crafting isn't the main source of getting cards, it's an alternative to bad luck.
    Last edited by Boogums; 2013-06-21 at 12:00 AM.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    Yes, because A. you don't need a golden Jaraxxus, and B. cards are supposed to have a certain rarity to them, because that's part of the allure to card games.
    A regular Jaraxxus will still set you back 40 packs of cards or so. For 1 card. We don't know yet what kind of amount of packs a week we'll be able to get, but seems to me spending 40 packs worth of cards to get 1 card is terrible, even for a card that needs to be semi rare cause it needs to live up to it's legendary status.

    But to be honest we need to know what the drop rates from packs are first, so we know how big the chance is we get a legendary through other means AND we need to know what kind of amount of packs we'll be able to get each week. 40 packs won't seem much if we can get 60-80-100 packs a week through dedicated play OR if the drop rate of Legendaries is about 1 in 20 packs or something.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    A regular Jaraxxus will still set you back 40 packs of cards or so. For 1 card. We don't know yet what kind of amount of packs a week we'll be able to get, but seems to me spending 40 packs worth of cards to get 1 card is terrible, even for a card that needs to be semi rare cause it needs to live up to it's legendary status.

    But to be honest we need to know what the drop rates from packs are first, so we know how big the chance is we get a legendary through other means AND we need to know what kind of amount of packs we'll be able to get each week. 40 packs won't seem much if we can get 60-80-100 packs a week through dedicated play OR if the drop rate of Legendaries is about 1 in 20 packs or something.
    I actually think the Epic cards will be dropping quite frequently.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    A regular Jaraxxus will still set you back 40 packs of cards or so. For 1 card. We don't know yet what kind of amount of packs a week we'll be able to get, but seems to me spending 40 packs worth of cards to get 1 card is terrible, even for a card that needs to be semi rare cause it needs to live up to it's legendary status.

    But to be honest we need to know what the drop rates from packs are first, so we know how big the chance is we get a legendary through other means AND we need to know what kind of amount of packs we'll be able to get each week. 40 packs won't seem much if we can get 60-80-100 packs a week through dedicated play OR if the drop rate of Legendaries is about 1 in 20 packs or something.
    believe me, it's better this way.

    you can make ANY card with this system. as such, if making cards was easy, everybody would get all cards on the first month, play a bit, get bored because "no goal" and than quit. it's good to have something to work for, even if it's not really hard work, but lengthy work.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    believe me, it's better this way.

    you can make ANY card with this system. as such, if making cards was easy, everybody would get all cards on the first month, play a bit, get bored because "no goal" and than quit. it's good to have something to work for, even if it's not really hard work, but lengthy work.
    Oh I agree that it shouldn't be too fast, but it needs to stay reasonable. When the drop chances of card packs are revealed (if they do) then someone smarter then me will undoubtedly do the math to see how long it would take at minimum to get a full collection, and full collection of golden cards. I'll let my final verdict on crafting wait till then, but for now I'm sceptical.

  10. #10
    Here's another hypothetical:


    Let's assume that you got all the cards in the game in two months, without paying a dime.

    Now what?

    Having long-term goals (like getting a golden version of every card) is a good thing. The rates need to be high for those. I like that it isn't going to be practical to buy your way to that kind of a collection, but rather playing a lot.

    Also keep in mind that there is no randomness in the crafting. You get exactly the card you want, and only that card - so no chance of wasting a craft.

  11. #11
    About buying packs for gold: do we know how much gold a pack costs? And how much we get for winning a match? Do we get gold for losing one, and how much?

    In other words, how many games would you need to play in order to get enough gold to buy enough packs to get enough cards for that hypothetical Jaraxxus you're talking about?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    About buying packs for gold: do we know how much gold a pack costs? And how much we get for winning a match? Do we get gold for losing one, and how much?

    In other words, how many games would you need to play in order to get enough gold to buy enough packs to get enough cards for that hypothetical Jaraxxus you're talking about?
    we don't know that yet, but I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be harder than getting exalted with shendralar
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  13. #13
    I don't know if I am being silly or not but I don't see a problem with the crafting. If crafting was made too easy there would be no reason for people to buy their cards and Blizzard would lose out on money. And the prices needed would not be that much more then card game players are used to any way, in fact building a deck in Hearthstone would be cheaper then building one in a physical game.

    The only problem I see is that people will want to have their dream decks as soon as possible and that will just not happen without dropping a lot of money and spending a lot of time(cash) crafting as well. And honestly that is not a bad thing either.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebildays View Post
    I don't know if I am being silly or not but I don't see a problem with the crafting. If crafting was made too easy there would be no reason for people to buy their cards and Blizzard would lose out on money.
    You need to buy (with money or gold) cards anyway in order to be able to craft, so I don't really see your point.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    A regular Jaraxxus will still set you back 40 packs of cards or so. For 1 card. We don't know yet what kind of amount of packs a week we'll be able to get, but seems to me spending 40 packs worth of cards to get 1 card is terrible, even for a card that needs to be semi rare cause it needs to live up to it's legendary status.

    But to be honest we need to know what the drop rates from packs are first, so we know how big the chance is we get a legendary through other means AND we need to know what kind of amount of packs we'll be able to get each week. 40 packs won't seem much if we can get 60-80-100 packs a week through dedicated play OR if the drop rate of Legendaries is about 1 in 20 packs or something.
    $40 for a chase rare in Magic the Gathering is about normal, so 40 packs in Hearthstone does not seem over-the-top, especially since you do not need four copies!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    You need to buy (with money or gold) cards anyway in order to be able to craft, so I don't really see your point.
    Correct me if I am wrong but gold is earn by dueling which generates no revenue for Blizzard. The point of it is if crafting was made easier Blizzard would lose out on revenue. By making the cost to make the cards high Blizzard either forces players to grind out gold to buy cards or spend money to buy cards. Given that a great deal of players may want to get their decks build as fast as possible they are going to be buying cards rather then grinding gold to buy cards.

    Hearthstone seems to be working on the Free to play model of gaming so it would be in their best interest to make the "cash shop" more appealing then crafting. People that buy heavily from the cash will have access to more common and rare cards then just people using gold. They will be able to turn those cards into mats to make the better cards. It seems like a win win because you are not really losing anything because you can always save up and craft a dream card if it comes it. If not balanced right it would become a play to win type thing which would be the only negative I can think of.

  17. #17
    Considering the golden upgrades are only a cosmetic thing, I don't mind, especially since the upgrade is more inspired than the terrible "foil" look MTG cards have, which I find just ruins the art, though I guess there's still room for them to blow it and have their animated cards look worse for it, but in that case you dodge a bullet via the card being undesirable in the first place.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Considering the golden upgrades are only a cosmetic thing, I don't mind, especially since the upgrade is more inspired than the terrible "foil" look MTG cards have, which I find just ruins the art, though I guess there's still room for them to blow it and have their animated cards look worse for it, but in that case you dodge a bullet via the card being undesirable in the first place.
    Ace in the hole that Blizz have is that they can, at any given time they feel like it, change the art on any card they want. If a certain card is despised for it's Golden Card look Blizz can just re-do the art and get a better looking card out of it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Ace in the hole that Blizz have is that they can, at any given time they feel like it, change the art on any card they want. If a certain card is despised for it's Golden Card look Blizz can just re-do the art and get a better looking card out of it.
    Given blizzard's prior history on art, and specifically about changing it, I'm not sure that's going to be a particularly reasonable hope.

    "Some people might be upset by an artwork change" - you really think this is that unexpected?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebildays View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but gold is earn by dueling which generates no revenue for Blizzard.
    it does. indirectly, but it does.

    if the vast majority of the playerbase were to just buy cards and play against the computer on training mode, the queue times for matches would be terrible, and people would give up on the game. that would make blizzard lose revenue.

    that's the point of F2P games. if you aren't paying, you are part of the product, serving as reason for others to pay. if you are paying, you are both a customer and part of the product, and the advantages you receive also serve as publicity to sell the product.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

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