Page 31 of 31 FirstFirst ...
21
29
30
31
  1. #601
    Dreadlord Lostwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Under the couch
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioichi View Post
    They are not the majority. In Orgrimmar maybe, but not the Horde. There are many other races that make up the Horde.
    There are indeed many races that make up the Horde, but the orcs have always comprised the bulk of the entire force, until now that is. Excluding the undead Forsaken, all other races are few in numbers (Unless they recently started growing rapidly). The same can be said about the humans and the Alliance.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    There are indeed many races that make up the Horde, but the orcs have always comprised the bulk of the entire force, until now that is. Excluding the undead Forsaken, all other races are few in numbers (Unless they recently started growing rapidly). The same can be said about the humans and the Alliance.
    The Horde has one problem: Their major fighthing force is built out of Orcs and Forsaken while the forsaken are not realy trustworthy.
    While with teh Alliance their major forces are made of Humans and Nighelves, who have a strong interest in puting the Horde down aswell.

    That being said I would be surprised if the Forkasen would realy play a role in the Siege, I am pretty sure they will stand outside watching what happens.

  3. #603
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sofia/Bulgaria
    Posts
    4,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioichi View Post
    They are not the majority. In Orgrimmar maybe, but not the Horde. There are many other races that make up the Horde.
    What matters is the most esteemed leaders of the horde's armies are now dead along with their army's core elite. The horde is literally in shambles. At least the horde of Kalimdor. The forsaken and blood elves are not that badly hurt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    There are indeed many races that make up the Horde, but the orcs have always comprised the bulk of the entire force, until now that is. Excluding the undead Forsaken, all other races are few in numbers (Unless they recently started growing rapidly). The same can be said about the humans and the Alliance.
    Goblins allways breed like rabbits. Its natural, to counter them exploding all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    What in the world could be more "flexing" than marching through the enemy capital and leave with showing mercy, saying "The alliance does not need to kill and burn everything, we are better than you could ever be."

    If it really plays out like that, which by the way no one of us knows right now, you couldn't humiliate and flex more in the face of an orc who worships honor more than anything.
    Whatisthisidonteven...

    The point of the Alliance existing, and having an army, is not to humiliate orcs and grandstand about their moral superiority. It's to secure geopolitical influence and power.

    To answer your question, the alliance could flex by enforcing an Alliance 'peace keeping' force (along with permanent military bases in Durotar) upon the divided and vulnerable Horde. Nobody is saying the Alliance need kill and burn everything; but if they are in Orgrimmar with an upper hand... then yes, it's retarded for them to 'turn the other cheek'.

    As a Horde myself I'd prefer resisting an Alliance occupation, than working with the Alliance, high fiving them, and watching them leave us to regroup and meet them on equal terms later.

  5. #605
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    5,150
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioichi View Post
    They are not the majority. In Orgrimmar maybe, but not the Horde. There are many other races that make up the Horde.
    In terms of individuals the Orcs are the complete majority of the Horde.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    The same can be said about the humans and the Alliance.
    Well almost said, when you consider the Dwarves.

  6. #606
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    There are indeed many races that make up the Horde, but the orcs have always comprised the bulk of the entire force, until now that is. Excluding the undead Forsaken, all other races are few in numbers (Unless they recently started growing rapidly). The same can be said about the humans and the Alliance.
    Exactly. Traditionally, and in spirit, the Horde has always been the unified Orcish clans, just like The Alliance have been the unified Human kingdoms. They've both had allies joining, like the Forest Trolls or the Wildhammer Dwarves, but their numbers and influence never came remotely close to that of the Orcs and Humans respectively.

    People may want to deny it, but this game, this (expanded) universe, will always be Orcs vs. Humans.

  7. #607
    Dreadlord KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Seventyseven sea's.
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Whatisthisidonteven...

    The point of the Alliance existing, and having an army, is not to humiliate orcs and grandstand about their moral superiority. It's to secure geopolitical influence and power.

    To answer your question, the alliance could flex by enforcing an Alliance 'peace keeping' force (along with permanent military bases in Durotar) upon the divided and vulnerable Horde. Nobody is saying the Alliance need kill and burn everything; but if they are in Orgrimmar with an upper hand... then yes, it's retarded for them to 'turn the other cheek'.

    As a Horde myself I'd prefer resisting an Alliance occupation, than working with the Alliance, high fiving them, and watching them leave us to regroup and meet them on equal terms later.
    Do you really expect the majority of the Horde players to accept a giant alliance stronghold in Durotar? Completely shut off from ANYTHING alliance related, no support whatsoever?

    This wouldn't work in the slightest, having soldiers stand guard in Orgrimmar, having political control to some extent, yes. But not a permanent military base in the homeland of the Orcs.
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    Do you really expect the majority of the Horde players to accept a giant alliance stronghold in Durotar?
    No; that's the point. "Down with the occupation!" "We should never have fought amongst ourselves" "Alliance collaborators will face justice"

    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    Completely shut off from ANYTHING alliance related, no support whatsoever?
    The Alliance has the Horde on it's back foot, turned against itself. Now is a perfect time to push hard for victory in Ashenvale. Rebuilding Tiragarde Keep and Northwatch Hold would be a good idea too. Elsewhere, now is a fine time to push hard into Arathi; ideally taking and fortifying Stromgarde. Gilneas might also be won.

    The idea is that as long as the Horde is fighting itself, it is drastically less capable at maintaining the stalemate that has existed for so long. The Alliance could and should take advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    This wouldn't work in the slightest, having soldiers stand guard in Orgrimmar, having political control to some extent, yes. But not a permanent military base in the homeland of the Orcs.
    Well, they would intend for it to be permanent. In all likelyhood there would be an ultimately successful power struggle against the Alliance occupation. Tiragarde keep would be ideal, with Northwatch as the Occupying force.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioichi View Post
    They are not the majority. In Orgrimmar maybe, but not the Horde. There are many other races that make up the Horde.
    Other races? Yes.

    Other races in large numbers? No. The Orcs have always been the power of the Horde because of their numbers relative to the other races. And many/most Orcs liked the way Garrosh did things. He brought them victory. He brought them the spoils of war. He enabled them to strike back at the hated Alliance.

    And its the Orcs who take the brunt of the assault.

    With a large number of Orcs dead, with the Horde leadership and government smashed, with the inevitable breakdown of trust that arises from a Civil war, with their elite troops all but wiped out and others almost certain to flee to escape "justice" then yes...the Horde armies got hit very hard.

    The good aspect of it - the Horde will end up with a much more equal racial balance.

    Of course, it remains to be seen how much of this will be reflected in game.

    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    Do you really expect the majority of the Horde players to accept a giant alliance stronghold in Durotar? Completely shut off from ANYTHING alliance related, no support whatsoever?
    If the Alliance get Tiragarde rebuilt as a Durotar based watch port, odds are they'll get the port that'll come with it. They likely wouldn't need any other presence in Durotar. Tiragarde could also serve as an outpost from which the Alliance could help rebuild the Horde so they never need to threaten the Alliance again, and act as an embassy.

    As it is, the Alliance don't really need to humiliate the Horde or destroy it. That's not in their nature. But they also shouldn't accept continued Horde occupation of their lands, they shouldn't be vindicating Garroshes vision of them and they shouldn't be treated as the losers in a conflict where they emerge much more powerful, gaining nothing.

    The least the Alliance should expect is a general Horde withdrawal from Alliance territories, to the WC3 borders. and a shift of focus to the Lordaeron theatre.

    EJL

  10. #610
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,439
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The least the Alliance should expect is a general Horde withdrawal from Alliance territories, to the WC3 borders. and a shift of focus to the Lordaeron theatre.

    EJL
    WC3 TFT ? Okay that means no Alliance presence in northern Lordaeron except for Arathi and the southern parts of Hillsbrad. Parts of Ashenvale were under horde control even then,just be careful what you wish for. They should hand back some territories that make sense strategically, but remember this is no unconditional surrender so the Alliance could make those demands and the rebels can flat out refuse and it goes back to war, which will last for several more years to come and exhaust both sides.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    To answer your question, the alliance could flex by enforcing an Alliance 'peace keeping' force (along with permanent military bases in Durotar) upon the divided and vulnerable Horde. Nobody is saying the Alliance need kill and burn everything; but if they are in Orgrimmar with an upper hand... then yes, it's retarded for them to 'turn the other cheek'.
    There already was and is an Alliance stronghold in Durotar since the founding of Orgrimmar, Tiragarde Keep.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Other races? Yes.

    Other races in large numbers? No. The Orcs have always been the power of the Horde because of their numbers relative to the other races. And many/most Orcs liked the way Garrosh did things. He brought them victory. He brought them the spoils of war. He enabled them to strike back at the hated Alliance.

    And its the Orcs who take the brunt of the assault.

    With a large number of Orcs dead, with the Horde leadership and government smashed, with the inevitable breakdown of trust that arises from a Civil war, with their elite troops all but wiped out and others almost certain to flee to escape "justice" then yes...the Horde armies got hit very hard.

    The good aspect of it - the Horde will end up with a much more equal racial balance.

    Of course, it remains to be seen how much of this will be reflected in game.
    Blizzard my write it off as Garrosh's loyalist forces being primarily Blackrock Orcs, since they specifically vowed allegiance to him in exchange for amnesty.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Kashii View Post
    I'd like a Senior Vice President, Story and Franchise Development for Blizzard who gets the same boner for Varian Wrynn that he gets for Thrall.
    I'd be happy to settle for them killing Varian off and introducing someone they could get story-wood over.

  13. #613
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sofia/Bulgaria
    Posts
    4,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    I'd be happy to settle for them killing Varian off and introducing someone they could get story-wood over.
    Like anduin He turns up to be a great leader.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  14. #614
    I want an unconditional surrender from the horde. AKA: A return of Alliance lands.

  15. #615
    It seems that if there will be one more patch. Perhaps 5.5 will be the patch that will tell us what the Alliance will get back and what will be the terms of the Horde surrender.

  16. #616
    I will never understand why people get so upset over the perceived slights to their fictional faction in a video game with fictional story lines. You want some real hardship, try cheering for the Chicago Cubs.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    It seems that if there will be one more patch. Perhaps 5.5 will be the patch that will tell us what the Alliance will get back and what will be the terms of the Horde surrender.
    At the end of 5.5, when Blue comments have stated the final "post-siege version" of Orgrimmar will be in place, if after having been laid siege to, Org is rebuilt back to a fixed state close to the pre-siege version, yet Stormwind still has a huge hole where the park used to be along with the ruined barracks after 2 entire expansions have gone by, I expect much Alliance nerd rage.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by ganush View Post
    I will never understand why people get so upset over the perceived slights to their fictional faction in a video game with fictional story lines. You want some real hardship, try cheering for the Chicago Cubs.
    So exchange one factional loyalty that one ultimately has no real control over/connection to for another factional loyalty that one ultimately has no real control over/connection to? Sounds reasonable.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Like anduin He turns up to be a great leader.
    That half-witted little punk? I wish he had actually died when Garrosh pasted him into the Bell. Would have served him right, and we might have gotten a decent character moment out of Varian out of it too. The fact that Jaina is more upset about him being grievously wounded than his own father is, speaks volumes.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    WC3 TFT ?
    No...WC3. And in case you missed it, right now..based on what we know..the rebels options would be to agree or be wiped out in a year anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Blizzard my write it off as Garrosh's loyalist forces being primarily Blackrock Orcs, since they specifically vowed allegiance to him in exchange for amnesty.
    They might...of course, part of the reason Thrall left was because the Orcs didn't want him anymore, they wanted Garrosh. Given the way he gave them what they wanted, the way he brought them victory, the way he allowed them to hit back at the Alliance, the fact he was an Orc supremacist and so on...it would be unlikely that support did anything other than increase.

    However, even without it those Blackrocks were still part of the Horde. They were still part of the armies that faced the Alliance.

    EJL

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •