How would it be different from smoke bomb ?
Honestly, having a range-reducing debuff would simply make ranged players stand closer to the targets and ignore the debuff altogether. There would be an unholy amount of complaining on the forums for a couple months, and then everybody would ignore the fact their spells have a 40-yard range and instead stand at 20 just in case. No actual gameplay depth to it.
Didn't mind soothe use to do that pre-Cata?
PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA
Code:Mind Soothe 40 yd range 6% of base mana Instant cast Soothes the target, reducing the range at which it will attack you by 10 yards. Only affects Humanoid targets. Lasts 15 sec.
The Melee/Caster gameplay is defined. When you are ranged, you stand and cast spells at range, and being at full range benefits you the most. You have no survival benefits to staying close to your target, other than trying to LOS by getting behind them. In the case of Melee, they have a lot of disables and movement abilities as well as having most-to-all of their abilities instant cast, meaning they attack on the run. Casters can only deal a percentage of their damage from kiting in this fashion.
I only see this as a good thing is if there is an easy way to counter -range debuff, either by giving casters their own +range buffs or as someone suggested, making it a soft debuff where it only lowers damage instead of completely locking it out.
Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-06-21 at 09:47 PM.
Apply this debuff ability on a DK so his deathgrip range is reduced who is chasing after your flag carrier in WSG? Or on the ret paladin so his repentance or HoJ can't reach your healer who is keeping your butt alive? Pretty sure there is a use case for every melee class.
I would argue that counters to a -range debuff already exist in several fashions. It isn't as obvious as a +range buff in the game, but rarely are any debuffs matched with a direct inverse buff.
A lot of debuffs in this game are dispellable. The monk ability example in the first post for example would be a poison. It would still cost the healer a GCD to dispel & an 8 second CD. Tons of classes have immunities to silences, stuns, etc. I don't see why they wouldn't take this -range debuff under their fold.
Or.. Just as you would preemptively throw up a HoT or a Shield before that rogues kidney shot or garrote lands on you, you would preemptively HoT or Shield your ally before you are CC'd with this -range debuff. Or your teammate has Heroic Leap, ShadowStep, blink, Demonic Gateway, the list goes on with the # of abilities that get your teammate in range of you or vice versa.
If you've ever played a Druid and have seen the impact of how the cyclone range buffs and nerfs have affected the use of the spell over the years, you can easily understand what an impact just 5-10 yards can be in competitive PVP. This debuff is planned to affect most-to-all casted spells, potentially halving that. This is more than just a debuff. This is changing up how PVP will be played in the future, depending on how persistent this spell will be.Or.. Just as you would preemptively throw up a HoT or a Shield before that rogues kidney shot or garrote lands on you, you would preemptively HoT or Shield your ally before you are CC'd with this -range debuff. Or your teammate has Heroic Leap, ShadowStep, blink, Demonic Gateway, the list goes on with the # of abilities that get your teammate in range of you or vice versa.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?
Off the top of my head I can think of several abilities that fall outside of the, "If you're slowed, you're slowed" & more into the latter you described.
Binding Shot: If you are too far away from the shot you get stunned.
Smoke Bomb: Probably the closest example of -Range I can think of. You are effectively silenced from casting single target abilities on anyone inside of the smoke until you enter.
Remorseless Winter: It isn't a stun until you have been standing too close for too long.
Paralytic poison: It does nothing until 5 stacks, then it becomes a stun.
Ursol's vortex: Move too far away & it throws you back to the middle.
Some of those aren't perfect examples but they are all forms of CC that don't fit the model of, "If you're slowed, you're slowed" don't you think?
---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 04:26 PM ----------
Perhaps my example was not in the right vein, since you're focusing on the mechanic of slows rather than the comparison between a binary spell effect and spells that require positional requirements.
In none of your examples of spells does it require a class to change how they are played. That is the point, that is always the point. You act and react to the situations (move out of the fire) to avoid punishment. A range debuff is not punishing a player for being out of range as much as it is forcing them to change their tactics entirely to play at a closer distance. You can't effectively heal if you are constantly out of range, and this isn't just a debuff or CC where you know you have to deal with it cuz you're caught in it. It's not even like a Mortal Strike ability where you know your effectiveness is lowered. It's completely locking out your ability to function unless you 'hug' the target at the optimal safe distance.
If it were a binary effect of locking out all range, it would be considered CC. If it softened the effects of spells over a certain range, it's a debuff mechanic similar to mortal strike, and can be worked around. A range debuff however affects core gameplay mechanics negatively because it forces the opposing player to play differently. Let's get this straight, if you played a class that casts spells at 60y range and that debuff now forces you to cast at 30y or not be able to cast at all, you're essentially changing the way that class plays. There is no spell out there in the game that has a negative effect on this scale.
This is beyond simply being numbers. The game is designed in a way that casters get long range and are balanced by the fact they have to stand and focus the target for X seconds before they can deal any damage. If this becomes interrupted or out-ranged, there is zero damage output. This range debuff effectively alters the way casters played, and I can see this more of a deterrant to playing those classes and would promote classes that rely on instant-casts and have higher mobility over those who must fully cast their spells.
I don't see this as a beneficial addition to the game due to the rules of how melee and casters work.
I hope that clears up the intent and application of what I am describing. If not then I have failed again
I think it's an interesting mechanic, that might have some uses in PvP, and definately ofcourse in PvE encounters too if they would like to force the ranged to come hug the boss or something for whatever reason.
21st Century Thinking: "Politicians will solve our problems!"
-Range, however, is a different kind of beast. For one, it always changes how the character acts because they now have to stand closer to the enemy or ally to do their job. In its current state, the game can't handle that kind of thing. In its future state we don't know, but it is safe to assume that adding the ability would make things more complicated, and there's only so much "complicated" that is good for the game and the devs.
I'm not sure if I've adequately described why I don't think it's a good idea. It might require more subtle and nuanced language to fully describe. I think it can be an interesting idea, but probably not for WoW because of how the game plays and how the players play the game.
Zone control abilities (Smoke Bomb, Ring of Frost) do not change the way your character plays. You react to these and you may change your tactics, but it's not affecting your gameplay. You don't control your character any differently, which is the main point.
With a range debuff, why not just have it lock all range and make it a pure CC ability? There is no reason to add a 'get in closer' clause to it, because you're effectively giving players a risk/reward system that isn't really rewarding. You aren't rewarded for playing in close distances, yet this spell promotes you to play this way to avoid punishment. It's like if you had a spell that damaged players if they kept running, and it forces them to toggle walk to stop taking damage. It's unique, but it's not rewarding gameplay.