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  1. #101
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    Iv got both a melee (fury) and ranged dps class (boomy) and thats still one of the most movement-hostile ranged and still i think that its a pain in the ass to play on the warrior. As someone said, ranged classes can choose where to position themselves to makes things alot easier while melees have to move with the adds/boss where and when it moves.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    As someone said, ranged classes can choose where to position themselves to makes things alot easier.
    Not completely sure what content you're playing.

    Jinrokh, pool is pretty much a must. I'd argue this is the less costrictive positioning mechanic in the entire raid tier.
    Horridon, on basically every door you want ranged to be between the tank and the door which is going to activate next, so that the tank doesn't have to run around like a headless chicken trying to get everything.
    Council, pretty strict positioning for priestess adds on heroic, kazrajin discharge, frostbites, all with sandtraps thrown into the mix.
    Tortos, avoiding turtles while at the same time being roughly everyone on the same side before each quake stomp.
    Megaera, staying in precise positions to efficiently kite Torrent of Ice
    Jikun, stay loosely spread around the border in order not to chain caw with someone else/melee, while paying attention to downdraft (less gap closers/sprints than melee)
    Durumu, beams, walls and maze pretty much say where you have to stand.
    Primordius, stay spread for pustules/acidic spines
    Dark animus, stay spread in order to avoid linking golems, pay attention not to be one of the most external people if you aren't soaking matter swap, while anima fonts mess up everything
    Qon, stay spread in order not to chain arcing lightning
    Twins, spread for cosmic barrage during night and for light of day during day. Spores are much more frequent in ranged too.
    Lei shen, precise positioning for ball lightnings, precise positioning for thunderstruck, precise positioning for diffusion chain during normal phases, precise positioning for bouncing balls soaking whenever they're cast.
    Ra'den, whatever, it's the same for both melee and ranged.

    While this is spoken from a 25hc point of view, where spreading actually has a huge impact compared to 10hc, I really can't see where you're coming from with your assumption. Strict positioning is pretty often required, it's not just a "stand wherever you want to stand". Unless you're overgearing content or doing easy content, of course, but does that really matter?
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  3. #103
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Not completely sure what content you're playing.

    Jinrokh, pool is pretty much a must. I'd argue this is the less costrictive positioning mechanic in the entire raid tier.
    Horridon, on basically every door you want ranged to be between the tank and the door which is going to activate next, so that the tank doesn't have to run around like a headless chicken trying to get everything.
    Council, pretty strict positioning for priestess adds on heroic, kazrajin discharge, frostbites, all with sandtraps thrown into the mix.
    Tortos, avoiding turtles while at the same time being roughly everyone on the same side before each quake stomp.
    Megaera, staying in precise positions to efficiently kite Torrent of Ice
    Jikun, stay loosely spread around the border in order not to chain caw with someone else/melee, while paying attention to downdraft (less gap closers/sprints than melee)
    Durumu, beams, walls and maze pretty much say where you have to stand.
    Primordius, stay spread for pustules/acidic spines
    Dark animus, stay spread in order to avoid linking golems, pay attention not to be one of the most external people if you aren't soaking matter swap, while anima fonts mess up everything
    Qon, stay spread in order not to chain arcing lightning
    Twins, spread for cosmic barrage during night and for light of day during day. Spores are much more frequent in ranged too.
    Lei shen, precise positioning for ball lightnings, precise positioning for thunderstruck, precise positioning for diffusion chain during normal phases, precise positioning for bouncing balls soaking whenever they're cast.
    Ra'den, whatever, it's the same for both melee and ranged.

    While this is spoken from a 25hc point of view, where spreading actually has a huge impact compared to 10hc, I really can't see where you're coming from with your assumption. Strict positioning is pretty often required, it's not just a "stand wherever you want to stand". Unless you're overgearing content or doing easy content, of course, but does that really matter?
    Listing every little step makes you look petty and your argument weaker. Stick to the parts which legitimately make you think as a ranged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #104
    Half of bosses abilities don't affect melee.
    Proximity is rarely an issue for them.
    Sucks to be ranged in 25.

  5. #105
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    On paper it all depends on the spec, class, and what boss fight you are engaging to say which is 'harder'.

    A lot of encounters favor range as of late though.
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  6. #106
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    Melee definitely, in the past it was ranged but if you have been paying attention this expansion melee has had hardly any mechanics everything is healer/ranged targeted now.

    Also I keep reading people talking about how easy it is to position as ranged, just wait until you get one of those "you can never stand within 10 yards of someone" fights in a 25man raid, then we can talk about how easy it is just to stand behind the boss and move when he does.
    Last edited by Volitar; 2013-06-25 at 07:22 PM.

  7. #107
    Melee is a pain in the butt. I love it, but I'll never call it easy.

    - Have to stay in close range for attacks to land, and in a 180 degree cone behind to avoid getting parried. On Torto or Durumu during disintegration, it's a guaranteed DPS loss since you are facing him
    - Can be difficult to spread out, so some mechanics will always damage us more often
    - Frequent movement as tanks reposition the boss means you pretty much have to master mouseturn + keybinds to perform well
    - We're always on interrupting duty
    - We lose all DPS if we have to run away from the boss to handle a mechanic

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Melee is a pain in the butt. I love it, but I'll never call it easy.

    - Have to stay in close range for attacks to land, and in a 180 degree cone behind to avoid getting parried. On Torto or Durumu during disintegration, it's a guaranteed DPS loss since you are facing him
    - Can be difficult to spread out, so some mechanics will always damage us more often
    - Frequent movement as tanks reposition the boss means you pretty much have to master mouseturn + keybinds to perform well
    - We're always on interrupting duty
    - We lose all DPS if we have to run away from the boss to handle a mechanic
    Tortos can't parry, Durumu is channeling therefore can't parry. Getting parried doesn't add any depth to whatever you have to do, it's just something you shrug off as a DPS loss.
    Most mechanics that require spreading out don't target melee.
    Repositioning from tanks is predictable on almost every single encounter.
    Interrupt duty is probably the one thing I'll let you.
    Most mechanics which require running away don't target melee, and even if some do, losing DPS =/= being hard. You do the exact same movement as a ranged, it's equally as hard. If he can deal damage while doing it it doesn't make it easier (well, makes it harder actually since you need to pay attention to two things at once)

    Stop confusing "I can't deal damage when ranged" with "mechanics are harder as a melee".
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  9. #109
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post

    Stop confusing "I can't deal damage when ranged" with "mechanics are harder as a melee".
    You can't go "makes it harder actually since you need to pay attention to two things at once" then completely ignore dps optimization in every regard. It's a complete contradiction... hypocritical. You either factor in optimization for both (yes) or neither (lol).
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Stop confusing "I can't deal damage when ranged" with "mechanics are harder as a melee".
    Dealing with mechanics without any regards to DPS optimization is completely pointless. WoW mechanics aren't particularly hard to begin with, going into that route means you would do absolutely nothing the entire encounter. (regardless ranged/melee, every mechanic is trivial to deal with when it comes to just dealing with it)

    Things like the Jin'rokh dance, as an example, are completely trivial to dodge as a ranged. Dodging it while remaining in melee range implies:
    1) your movement is partly blocked by the electricity pool (irrelevant at the beginning of the fight and at current gear levels, but good luck dodging it on the 3rd dance phase when you only have a tiny window to stand in.)
    2) a big ass troll in the middle blocks your vision partially yet you can't go away
    3) all directions to monitor instead of just two
    4) quite simply, there are also twice as many balls in melee.

    Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty easy. But to die as a ranged on that mechanic you need to be pretty much blind, while I can sympathize with melees who get hit.
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2013-06-25 at 11:04 PM.

  11. #111
    Ranged. Melee gets to suffer through the "Watch me tank the boss in a figure eight!" pulls. Sometimes the boss needs to be kited, and if it's kited in the same pattern every time, no big deal. But bosses that teleport around or just like to follow tanks that cannot sit still and just tank... ugh. Gimme my ranged.

  12. #112
    Probably enh shamans and feral dps have it the toughest in terms of complexity and having to deal with boss mechanics

  13. #113
    ranged is easier for me. For you, who knows but you.

  14. #114
    Easiest to hardest in general IMO.

    ranged - melee - tank - healer

    obviously some fights change this.

  15. #115
    Content dependant, in this content melee is far easier then ranged.

  16. #116
    Only one fight comes to mind that has been easier for melee, Saurfang in ICC. I cant think of a single boss that isnt equal or harder as melee then ranged otherwise.
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  17. #117
    I'm in a 10man guild, so will speak from what I have seen here.


    Jinrokh: Melee cant get orbs on them, so stays in puddle, defo easier as melee. Bit hard to dps during lightning storms, but enrage is so lenient that it doesnt really matter.

    Horridon: Can be a bit annoying as melee, but its not like interrupting and running after mobs is hard, perhaps a bit more situational awareness is required, but then again gets direhorn after ranged and healer so evens out I guess.

    Council: tunnel bosses while ranged deals with with the encounter, bit of an interrupting duty but nothing melee isnt used to.

    Tortos: Tunnel boss / bats, maybe if short on ranged a melee has to run after turtles. (our slow B*** is a frost dk, but again not too hard)

    Megaera: mostly tunneling, a bit of awareness required due to the fact we 1 tank it and they cant get close to the head not tanked and has to be at max ranged so they dont get breathed.

    Ji kun: 1 melee tunnels boss, 1 -2 flies depending on setup, nothing is really hard on this fight, so wont comment.

    Durumu: About same, perhaps a bit easier to keep rotation going while in maze but overall about the same.

    Primordius: Our melee tunnels boss after getting stacks, ranged deals with the big goo and small goo's. Ranged however has to have somewhat more awareness, not getting close to people, and avoiding the orbs he throws out.

    Dark Animus: Have yet to try this hc so wont comment, but seems about even.

    Iron Qon: About the same really.

    Twins: Just a dps check while staying spread, only the guy painting really has to be pro with timings. Dps has an easy job here, but encounter is fairly easy.

    Lei shen: Again have not tried hc, but seems melee get to tunnel more, but both reqs alot of awareness on hc.

    Overall: Ranged is harder this tier IMHO. Cant really think of a boss where melee gets all the tough jobs.

  18. #118
    It's not so much an issue of fights favoring ranged-heavy groups, they don't. Most fights actually benefit most from a balanced makeup. But having a melee heavy group is extremely punishing for many encounters, like Tortos, Megaera, or Iron Qon.

  19. #119
    Most of the time it's ranged. Usually it's easier for them to avoid ground effects, and they barely need to move when the boss is moved around a lot. Also, they don't need to get behind the boss like melee who have to because of parry/dodge (not sure about hunters since MoP). If there is heavy movement, it's not that bad as most ranged classes can use their spells while moving, either instant or the ones castable while moving. Ranged have a larger area of vision as well because if you are in melee, the huge boss covers a lot of the screen.

  20. #120
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    Have you ever played melee in a raid setting during progression or even just current content ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Jin'rokh - This fight is pretty straight forward both have to deal with the same mechanics. Focused lightning can be arguably more annoying for melee, but most of them have moves like heroic leap, shadowstep, or sprint to minimize time off boss while hard casting classes have much more of an issue IMO.
    Its pretty equal, like you said lightning balls is harder for melee but nothing gamebreaking imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Horridon - Ranged need to deal with a pink dino constantly coming at them which can be a huge hindrance for classes which have to hard cast into it. Sand traps and poison puddles etc aren't a huge deal here for melee IMO since tanks should be positioning the mobs away from them which melee lose very minimal damage granted they can play on a decent skill level.
    Pink dino comes for melee and even tanks, just later in the fight and is 100000% times harder to handle as melee...
    Plenty of times where sandtraps under melee group, i'd take that anyday over avoiding orbs, interupts, crystal, running around etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Council - Council in it's current state for our guild we kill Sul so fast there are really no mechanics that really keep people from DPSing aside from adds which melee don't "need" to swap to granted your ranged do the fight right.
    Are you in the interrupt rotation for sul ?
    Melee HAD to swap, just cause we outgear it now shouldn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Tortos - The turtle knock ups are very annoying for ranged as even as a warlock if you are casting with KJ cunning it will interrupt the cast, while melee stand there and tunnel the boss for the most part while aoeing adds if it's needed.
    Yes, being chased by rockfall and avoiding aoe so your shield doesnt fall off and not being in melee range is so much less annoying then having to move from a turtle cuz you decided to stand stupid....

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Megaera - For the most part melee tunnel this boss aside from having to strafe over to drop a cinder (I think they can get it) for it to get dispelled they in turn ignore adds and Ice lines.
    Fact that you're not sure if we get cinders speaks volumes of your experience as melee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Ji-Kun - Both sides have just as much responsibility can be given to either melee or ranged for the most part.
    Except we cant stand where we want for both puddles and caw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Durumu - I believe melee and ranged share all the same mechanics here so it's not a huge deal aside from the melee being able to dps on the move while ranged can take a huge DPS loss for moving for that amount of time.
    You'll take a little dps loss sure, but saying you cant dps at all is not true for any class or spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Primordius - Most mechanics are the same I can't remember the name of the spell right now but it's another targeted AoE spell that ranged need to spread for if 2 people stack its either a 1 shot or massive dmg almost resulting in one while chasing the boss and trying to DPS can get annoying. This fight honestly isn't hard for either side.
    Ye, it targets melee aswell buddy, add in to the fact we're getting kited for the whole fight while you stand still, yeh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Animus - Can be a lot of movement for ranged as well as melee for the most part ranged deal with the little adds so melee can be under animus tunneling here avoiding anima font while having 1 rogue cloaking the ring for the tank. Adds can Vary highly depending on what your guild has in terms of raid comp.
    You keep switching between normal and heroic it seems, cant speak for animus heroic personally, but its pretty equal on normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Iron Qon - Melee job here is to avoid lines by once again just side stepping depending, our guild has melee stack for the first dog right off the start so melee job here is to pretty much tunnel and side step lines again not hard to deal with. As ranged avoiding lines can be annoying if you have the lightning aids that spreads and the spear spawn on you it's total RNG if you are really close and can't move to avoid spreading the debuff. Results in major DPS loss during dead zone etc.
    Again, arcing lightning is not exclusive to ranged.... it stacks regularly on ranged but spreads with melee aswell.
    Even so, being able to dps from whereever and not having to actually deal with lines is far easier as ranged, i'd take clicking duty anyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    Twins - Melee for the most part here again tunnel the boss while ranged have to make sure they are in proper position to not stack AoE and be one shot while dodging sleep clouds. Fire one is pretty easy for both just don't stand near a comet to melt it. Easy heroic not a big deal but still has difference between the two
    Again, melee has to stay spread aswell, depending on comp will be far harder for melee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon17848 View Post
    I can't think of many fights that really just take a dump on melee and make their life hell in the past 2 teirs granted in the past I will agree melee was very unforgiving. Remember again I'm just comparing the amount of focus ranged need to have vs melee in any given fight and I believe melee have a lot more brain dead fights than ranged these days.
    Sure, there's no huge cockbloak for melee but there is plenty of fights which is considerably easier as ranged / ranged comp.
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-06-27 at 10:57 AM.

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