Why do you choose LFR over Raid Guilds?

[DrSteveBrule]

what would u rather choose, wipe for hours on the same boss and maby not even make a full ToT clear in a whole week, or play LFR for a 3-4 hours and complete it all?

Unfortunately, you're right. From a completely new players stand point, this is pretty rational thinking.

All that is required is Ilvl and hittin the queue button for LFR.
To get into a raiding guild you have to apply on a website.

As far as you can tell, Normal mode raiding is harder, the bosses are the same, the loot looks like the same save for an Ilvl difference and a color that is irrelavent.

/queue LFR

The problem? LFR leaves you a shallow gaming experience (worse than a 5 man because your presence is more necessary in a 5 man than 25 LFR where it's very easy to AFK successfully and win loot.

Raiding whenever you want is great, I wish we had that for Normal raiding. No loot drama or favoritism? Excellent.
The problem?
You can't eliminate these problems without affecting the rest of the raiding experience.
And when you affect that experience, you have a shit fest that is LFR.

It's like adding another 5 man dungeon. It's content that simply doesn't last in time nor in your memories.

[Windfury]

Simply time. I can't make a steady, consistent time commitment like I used to. I'm not the college kid I used to be when I was raiding a lot and have a bunch of other stuff in my life that comes first and I'd have to drop raiding for at short/no notice often.

[GrieverXIII]

That's a nice ungrammatical stream-of-thought(?) smear of memes you got there:

"entitled"
"adhd"
"spoon fed everything"

But basically all that is is some random sludge from your mind that has nothing to do with the reality (so to speak) of the game.

LFR exists because there was no way for a huge percentage of the population to go raiding, beyond perhaps the occasional Baradin Hold boss.

Must me nice to dismiss about anything anyone says that you don't like using ad-hominems and think you're right in your own mind. Its exactly the reality of the game, look at whenever Blizzard ever implements any LFR wings, you have people complaining in droves if they EVER wipe, or did you miss the endless stream of complaint about "gear not dropping" enough from people that had a massive amount of lfr pieces "just not the ones they wanted"?

What you so smartly dismiss as an "ungrammatical stream-of-thought" is an actual social phenomenon but in the end, you're probably part of the attitude i'm denouncing wich is why you came off on the defensive.


Edit :

ADHD
Entitlement
Spoon Feed

Bonus : Meme

[blackblade]

A lot of anti-LFR people keep saying that players are leaving raiding guilds because they can get the same stuff in LFR. What you actually get in LFR is;

Healer 10-15 min queue, Dps 20-60 min queue.
Potential of;
tank fail due to pvp gear
Heal fail due to healers being in dips spec because they were too good for dps queues.
DPS fail because of not following the mechanics that they know better than to do (AOE on DWing thumb)
Unenchanted/ungemmed/unforged/wrong gear/no knowledge of class/no knowledge of the encounter
Afk players
Players barely trying
People who grief you because they are 1 in 8 million and no consequences.
Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
DPS in tank spec
Huntards killing you with misdirect for shits and giggles
People screaming at you for tanking wrong
People screaming
SUB-PAR crappy versions of LFR gear.

And through all of this crap that is the random bundle that we call LFR people STILL choose to abandon Raid Guilds for LFR, so why?

Sadly, some people are jaded enough to rather deal with the above than have to deal with the demands of a raiding guild.

[ro9ue]

I would pretty much be worthless to a raid guild. My schedule is sporadic, some times I won't even be online for a few weeks. When I had more stability and less going on, I was actually able to lead a raiding guild and maintain a schedule. Things changed for me. I liked raiding a lot, but to be quite honest, I don't really miss the stress of Normal/Heroic raiding. I only miss really doing the raid with other players I'm friends with. /Flex raids could be a great thing for me.

[Otimus]

It is, LFR exists because of the current entitled adhd generation screaming bloody murder if they're not spoon fed everything, the tantrums they were throwing in public for that useless overpriced toy they would get bored of in an hour 10-15 years ago now ends up on public forums of games like WoW.

Results are expansions like Cataclysm and features such as LFR.

I just want stuff to do to advance my character that does not require deep, constant, inherent socialization of myself with strangers, resulting in public judgement of me. If not for LFR, I'd of likely quit the game. Infact, several times over the life of the game, I HAVE quit the game because I had nothing to do that falls into this space. I don't feel "entitled". I don't think most people feel "entitled". They probably don't say a damned word about it, and just quit because they're left with little to do. I don't want to be "Spoon fed" things. I just want to play a game and have fun on my terms. God... Do you HAVE to be so condescendingly insulting and negative? I mean, seriously?

[vindicatorx]

I doubt a lot of people have left raiding specifically FOR LFR. I just rejoined the raiding community myself with my guild as a 10-man raider.

LFR was a big reason I dropped the raiding guild scene. I was tired of being in a guild of people I don't like other than the fact that I can raid with them.

[AvatarM]

"between 15:00-19:00 server time" from their wowprogress

Yeah clearly, everyone can be ready to raid @ 15pm... Sry to have a life. And raiding 8 hours in two session is hardly what I call a raisonnable amount of time. Raiding only two day but stretching the raid time is hardly going the "more focus, less playtime" way.

Their guild raids on Friday and Saturday. Server time means nothing, my server time is 4 hours apart from my zone time IRL. Group Therapy don´t strech their raid time. They have a streamer on twitch and I saw they raiding almost every saturday morning (here in my country), when they complete 4 hours of raiding, gg its over, they didn´t kill lei shen normal a lot of times when progressing. On Lei Shen heroic, they locked the CD for 3 weeks until kill him, 3 weeks without loot.

If you are bad, don´t blame the game or your schedule. JUST A VERY FEW people really don´t have time to raid, MOST people have time and spend more time in the game the most top guild raiders, they just don´t care or are too lazy to find a good guild.

[jbombard]

I just want stuff to do to advance my character that does not require deep, constant, inherent socialization of myself with strangers, resulting in public judgement of me. If not for LFR, I'd of likely quit the game. Infact, several times over the life of the game, I HAVE quit the game because I had nothing to do that falls into this space. I don't feel "entitled". I don't think most people feel "entitled". They probably don't say a damned word about it, and just quit because they're left with little to do. I don't want to be "Spoon fed" things. I just want to play a game and have fun on my terms. God... Do you HAVE to be so condescendingly insulting and negative? I mean, seriously?

I think there are a lot of people like you. For a good chunk of people it is about scheduling, for another chunk it is about making progress on your character, and sometimes a bit of both.

It does make me sad that socializing has become such a negative thing in the game. In vanilla you could play the game for the most part completely alone, raiding was so far out of reach for most people it wasn't worth considering. There wasn't nearly as much to do, there weren't nearly as many people, but people tended to talk a fair bit more, and because there were fewer people it was easier to blacklist the a**holes. Now there is so much to do, everybody is in a massive hurry to get everything done that they don't want to waste time on talking to somebody or helping somebody out.

[GrieverXIII]

I just want stuff to do to advance my character that does not require deep, constant, inherent socialization of myself with strangers, resulting in public judgement of me. If not for LFR, I'd of likely quit the game. Infact, several times over the life of the game, I HAVE quit the game because I had nothing to do that falls into this space. I don't feel "entitled". I don't think most people feel "entitled". They probably don't say a damned word about it, and just quit because they're left with little to do. I don't want to be "Spoon fed" things. I just want to play a game and have fun on my terms. God... Do you HAVE to be so condescendingly insulting and negative? I mean, seriously?

First of all, why do you play an MMO if socializing in a game with "strangers" (i hardly ever considered my guildies as such) is such a big issue for you? The entire genre has been tailored around it and the first and only game of the genre that has been murdering that aspect with a machete is WoW since mid WolTk. Every other MMOs are tailored around grouping and communities.

Then why everytime an LFR boss is even remotely challenging are the forums getting stormed by complaints?

Why is LFR loot such a big debate in the LFR community since its inception? Why is there a nearly endless stream of LFR loot/coins complaints if people simply want to "play the game and have fun"?

Why is the current raiding tier being completly accessible such a big concern if all you want to do is "have fun on your own terms". I've been at both extremes of the argument and i had plenty of fun simply pugging Karazhan on week ends when i couldn't play otherwise during TBC because of school.

I didn't name or point anyone, if you found my post insulting its because it hit the nail on the head, i'm negative because i'm jaded with both the community and the direction of the game.

[Tricksterjim]

I am about to go from Raiding with my Guild to a pure casual that will probably only do LFR. Why? Because Life is getting in the way. I truly enjoy normal mode raiding. I however don't care for Heroic raiding.... it is the same boss with a new move or two. My guild is 25 man with a 10 man elite group that tries out new encounters before the 25 man. But that is partly because we only seem to be able to find 15 ppl out of 25 that are competent and need to carry a few ppl every week.

So I have stuck with it for a while but am about to have my first child, my work is taking off and in all honesty I have been asked to miss RL social activities too many times in order to raid. So I have given notice and will be doing LFR (and am always willing to function as a stand in).

That being said, I wish I could just do the 10 man with my guild and not LFR. LFR is fun once to see the content and learn a few bosses. But people do not try or care to try in LFR. Players do not take the 10-15 min to read even the most basic outline of boss abilities. They cannot even be asked not to stand in fire.

I am almost ashamed to say I am going casual, because so many players use the word "casual" as an excuse for "lazy, uncaring, incompetent player". It just means I can't raid on a fixed schedule.

TLR - most ppl on this site will have the same answer as me. We are doing LFR because Life will not allow us to commit to a raid schedule.

[AvatarM]

If you don´t wanna socialize, don´t play an MMO.

1- Download Battleheart on your cellphone.
2- Play the game, get lootz for you party.
3- Do it again, forever.

[lawow74]

I didn't name or point anyone, if you found my post insulting its because it hit the nail on the head, i'm negative because i'm jaded with both the community and the direction of the game.

Personally I find it amusing, because I think you fail to keep in mind that WoW was ALWAYS the casuals' MMO, from its very inception to its current incarnation. That drove its content model to what you find today and is a large part of the reason why it still remains so successful compared to its competitors. Another large part, I think, is the investment it's created in so many players.

One could argue it doesn't create the investment it used to, but conversely one could argue the market no longer allows the kind of return the old-school investment models used to create. It's hard to say where the balance lies there and is something pretty much every other MMO has failed to answer properly to create the kind of upscaling success WoW managed to pull off.

But I digress...the simple fact is that WoW is a reflection of the gamer community at large, not just the WoW playerbase specifically. You'll no sooner change that than you'll control the swing of the Dow Jones with penny-candy purchases. I think the knowledge of your inability to influence things contributes a good deal to your jadedness.

[De Lupe]

And in the raid guilds you have:
- ridiculous application process, that makes you feel like applying for a job.
- overbearing, power-tripping officers.
- schedule.
- Coming on time and waiting for 30 minutes for everyone else to be on.
- Drama.
- Waiting for some guy explaining strategy before every fight in a monotone nasal voice, even if 90% of the raid already know it.
- Loot rules.
- People tell you to change your playstyle dramatically to get 1% dps increase.
- Being sat every other week because there's like 5 mages in your guild already.
- Wiping on a boss 7 times a night because one moron can't figure out a simple mechanic.
I mean, do you see it, OP, or do I need to name MORE reasons why I never want to go back to "organized" raiding?

Quoted for future readers to see and know it as the truth.

You deserve a trophy for this post.

[GrieverXIII]

Personally I find it amusing, because I think you fail to keep in mind that WoW was ALWAYS the casuals' MMO, from its very inception to its current incarnation.

Would love to see some actual official quote on that but i know you won't have any. The game peaked when it had a good balance between both casual and HC gaming and has been bleeding out subs since it lost said balance but its probably a lot easier to simlpy stay in the delusion that you're the only person that matters in a game designed with millions of players in mind.

[Winterstrife]

I've NEVER seen anyone choosing LFR over Raid Guilds. Even casuals who are in my guild are more than happy to fill empty raid slots when called upon.
I don't know where people are getting the impression that there aren't even raiders to recruit because they're all flocking to LFR.

[Phasma]

Three reasons:

1. Loot distribution system (LFR isn't biased when choosing who gets loot; Every DKP system has at least one loophole since everyone in the raid doesn't need the same loot)
2. Loot looks exactly the same with a different color
3. Schedules

[ComputerNerd]

If you think that you are really good, there are some heroic guilds that manage do heroics in 2 days, (4h/day)
OMG ITS A LIE, ITS IMPOSSIBRU..

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/.../Group+Therapy

Group Therapy its possibly the best exemple, they raid 8 hours week in 2 days, and are EU 168 in WoWProgress and 13/13H as a 25 man guild. That is really hard, having a tight raid schedule means you must choose between progression or gear sometimes locking CDS and etc. But as they say, they are always with open doors for exceptional players.

My guild is 4/13H, and we will start to locking CDs next week, cause we simple dont have time to clear content and progress on boss as we raid 9 hours/week. Most of my guild lives in the same city, and are friend IRL, we play WoW in the same guild since Vanilla (We were officers back then, and reformed the guild into 10 man group in WOTLK).

So as you see, there are groups that progress trough content, and dont need to raid everyday. WoWprogress is probably the best place to find a good guild. "Its not a job, don't wanna submit an application.." Well, guess how good guilds are good? They need to invite good players, how they will know if you are not bullshiting them, talking that are good and stuff, and when they need, you will do 70k dps in 530 ilvl? They need at least to see your logs, how you are, etc.. etc.. This is just people beeing LAZY.

Or people being ignorant.
Some of us simply cannot commit to a fixed start time, or fixed duration at all.
It does not matter how many days of the week you run a raid, I cannot ever say in advance that I will be available at a given start time.
I cannot ever say even if I make some raid at the last minute that I will be able to stay for some duration.

That is why I raid in LFR, because no matter how long or not I stay, when I can start, if I even do the impact on others when I have to leave or not even start in the first place is minimal.

I do not choose LFR, I HAVE to use LFR or I do not raid.

[Atrea]

I find I can't commit the time I used to to raiding.

I work in the restaurant business, and summer is our busy time. We also have some of our raiders out for the summer for similar (all RL-related) reasons.

Sometimes I find myself getting off work after midnight, and no raid guild on my server raids at this time. Flex raiding may re-introduce pugs, but there aren't many of those at present. So unless I want to spend a small fortune transferring away from my friends (who I plan to raid with after the summer ends), then I've really only got LFR as my option at present.

I understand it isn't the best raid experience. I understand it's full of imbeciles half the time, and the other half, it's chock full of self-absorbed hot shots who are a different type of imbecile; you take what you can get, I guess. It does allow me to do a raid every now and then, without committing to anyone's schedule but my own, and that's its value.

[Mormolyce]

Exactly this.

If I could raid, I'll only do heroics because normal is so easy it enrage me when dumb players do some retarded shit over and over and over (a few time I helped ancient guildies who still raid, randomly tanked Horridon, Tortos, Durumu, Jikun and dpsed a few too).

But I can't manage the heroics guild schedules (why isn't their some 1-2 nights week heroic raiders ????). So I only do LFR with some friends when they are online. We may do flex next tier, actually hoping that flex is something good (sadly I hope that it is NOT too hard, so any pugs can fill our base group. Don't want to take 1+ hour to check if everyone has enough ilvl, perfect gems or strat knowledge)

I think you really misunderstand the way WoW raiding works. The difficulty is really 99% about time investment. World first guilds might do 300 pulls on a boss to down it in one week. If you don't like massive time investments you sure wouldn't like HM raiding.

If you think that you are really good, there are some heroic guilds that manage do heroics in 2 days, (4h/day)
OMG ITS A LIE, ITS IMPOSSIBRU..

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/.../Group+Therapy

Group Therapy its possibly the best exemple, they raid 8 hours week in 2 days, and are EU 168 in WoWProgress and 13/13H as a 25 man guild. That is really hard, having a tight raid schedule means you must choose between progression or gear sometimes locking CDS and etc. But as they say, they are always with open doors for exceptional players.

My guild is 4/13H, and we will start to locking CDs next week, cause we simple dont have time to clear content and progress on boss as we raid 9 hours/week. Most of my guild lives in the same city, and are friend IRL, we play WoW in the same guild since Vanilla (We were officers back then, and reformed the guild into 10 man group in WOTLK).

So as you see, there are groups that progress trough content, and dont need to raid everyday. WoWprogress is probably the best place to find a good guild. "Its not a job, don't wanna submit an application.." Well, guess how good guilds are good? They need to invite good players, how they will know if you are not bullshiting them, talking that are good and stuff, and when they need, you will do 70k dps in 530 ilvl? They need at least to see your logs, how you are, etc.. etc.. This is just people beeing LAZY.

This is absolutely true, there are such guilds, but those guys are usually finely tuned raiding machines who are in tight-knit groups that have been raiding HMs together for a long time. Their progression is damn impressive, not many people could get the content down so fast with so little time.