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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdie View Post
    I use to play hockey 3 days a week over the winter, baseball and lacrosse 4 days a week in the summer. Got into a bad car accident and can no longer play those sports, sure i still go have some beers and watch them. But not as much, so now i have some beer and raid with friends online 3 days a week. Playing sports is a hobby/playing wow is a hobby.... at least to me anyway.
    That's the point though. It's a hobby, it's something fun people do to enjoy when they can and how they can. I seriously don't understand why people are so upset that other people have different priorities that mean they have different play styles and expectations, because that's all it is really. It's like having someone who plays in the premier league being angry at me because I can only be bothered to have a casual kick around with friends occasionally these days instead of playing all the time like I did in college.

    I'd be really interested to see a poll where it divided up into age groups. I think the responses here are showing a fairly big opinion gap between the teens to mid 20s crowd and the late 20s/30s crowd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    So don't wear skimpy clothes getting raped is not entirely out of your control either.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdie View Post
    Playing sports is a hobby/playing wow is a hobby.... at least to me anyway.
    Totally agree - everything that is not related to job or family is basically a time-killer. In that regard, playing WoW and playing football is the same.

    On topic - I've stopped normal/HC raiding because I can no longer be sure I can play every raiding night. So I just run LFR's and other casual content when I have free time to be prepared for the next patch/expansion. If I was in school or university (hence, had a lot of free time), I'd probably still raid like crazy.

  3. #363
    Time
    TIME
    TIME!!!

    " A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities "

  4. #364
    3 guilds "dying" between 5.1-5.3
    Coulnd't be arsed to join another guild, so only do LFR to at least continue with the Wrathion quest chain.

  5. #365
    Brewmaster schwank05's Avatar
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    Our guild failed to the brick wall that was Horridon, 10 N. We have not raided since March, because of this. Why work on progress when you can simply do LFR and get the same reward. I have however since quit playing in general as I only play this game for Dungeons and raids. Since Blizzard has decided they hate 5 mans there is nothing there for me and since my guild has died and our server is pretty much dead, I have no real avenue to raid so I don't play. I hate the RNG in LFR, I play the game to progress my character, IDK if I clear all content in a tier as long as I get what I feel is my achievable BIS. I would prolly have leveled all my characters to 90 and geared them as I did in CATA. But I need guaranteed loot to keep raiding, there is nothing fun in wasting 5-8 hours doing LFR and not receiving any loot.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Golden Age of raiding god I hope your just stating your opinion and not saying to say that is a fact because ill really LOL really hard.

    Before I left wow I only did LFR because I was tired of the guild drama and normally being the one who had to run the raid even tho I stated many times I did not want to.

    In LFR you can Ignore all the people in a guild run or even a pug run you can not ignore the other 9/24 people and that to me is a blessing.

    Also believe it or not LFR is fun for a lot of people.

    Also one reason I stopped trying to join raiding guilds was because they wanted me to go to there guild website and full out a apt....this is not a job this is a game.
    Being able to totally ignore everyone and everything is exactly why LFR at it's current state is bad. It offers rewards for doing nothing. It doesn't promote learning, it doesn't make people want to perform better. LFR has it's upsides obviously, but it would be madness to deny that it also has it's downsides aswell. I can imagine LFR being the only option for those who have a lot of variance in their work shifts. That was the problem for me when I was still working as a security guard. I wish flex-raids become popular, it seems that they should offer that slight challenge that might drive people in to the mindset necessary to improve their gameplay and characters instead of constantly ignoring mechanics and other players.

    About the writing up an application, would you pick people blindly without ever asking their backgrounds? There's a reason for asking for applications, they don't need to be just like job-applications, but a well written application with basic information such as your activity, experience and maybe even hardware tells alot. Not about just that particular information, but about you as a person. If someone who asks about a spot from our guild tells me that he doesn't want to write up even a simple, decently written application.. I'd just wish them good luck with searching. If one doesn't bother to write for a few minutes, how can I expect them to have the necessary consumables and focus for raids?

    But since you seem to have quitted wow, I guess you might had the same thoughts and I guess that quitting wow might have been the best option you had.

    I guess that's all for now.

  7. #367
    Herald of the Titans Ciddy's Avatar
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    I never left raiding specifically due to LFR. I quit playing at the end of Cataclysm because I got bored of the game (that was a looong time to go with nothing but DS). At that point, I'd been raiding 8 hours a week for the past 6 years and was starting to get burned out, so I took a break. My guild also started falling apart and eventually died a slow death through most of Cataclysm.

    So I came back in about 5.2 and joined a friend's guild as a non-raider. I can't commit to their raid schedules, so I just act as a backup for them. I use LFR to keep my gear at least somewhat up to date so I can be effective in that role. If I happen to be online when they're short a DPS, great. I just don't like feeling an obligation to log on at raid times, so I don't promise that I'm going to be there. LFR is perfect for that.

    And to be honest, I haven't had _that_ many bad experiences in LFR. Maybe I'm just lucky, but aside from occasionally having to kick the random AFKer/person who disconnected, most of my LFR runs have gone pretty smoothly. Except for the fact that I seem to have shit luck with actually getting gear, but at least most of my LFRs have been decent enough.

    The system has been refined a lot since Cataclysm, that much is for sure. At least now assholes who don't even need the gear can't roll on it, win it, then say "Hm....well, you're only number 2 on the damage meters, and number 1 beat you by 1%, so I don't think you're good enough to deserve this. I'm just going to vendor it." I lost Gurthalak to that on my first Madness kill in LFR and just said "fuck it" after that. Or just groups of 10 guildies coming in and need rolling everything so they could trade it amongst themselves. That was really my least favorite thing about doing LFR on my alts in Cataclysm. Thankfully, MoP fixed the above.
    Last edited by Ciddy; 2013-06-24 at 01:49 PM.

  8. #368
    I left due to a series of events that left me realizing that putting in the time to raid just isn't worth it (at least, not on my server):

    - In Wrath, I was part of a semi-casual progression guild. We finally got to LK 25 only to have the RL buy a LK kill and start us over on heroic modes for gear. I didn't agree with the decision, so that coupled with a few other things (newborn, more demands at work, desire for more than three hours of sleep a night) led me to seek a more casual guild. Queue slight distaste of raiding due to the realization that I may not get to enjoy the game the way I want to because other people are so focused on gear.

    - In Cata, I was raid leader for a casual raiding guild starting partway through T11. We downed T11 when the better raiders were still in the guild, but they all took a break partway through T12. I was told specifically not to worry about recruiting (which I hate doing and I am NOT the type of person that can sell...well...anything), but the recruiting officer wasn't recruiting either. We never downed Rag, and only got Hagara down once or twice before I quickly got fed up with half the raid dying to Hour of Twilight and/or Fading Light...especially with LFR was available as a learning tool.

    - At the end of Cata I joined my last progression guild as part of the second raid team. At the beginning of MoP RNG sucked for me - if I remember correctly I was still sporting a couple of 430-ish blue pieces and a green trinket (still around a 460-ish ilevel), despite running twice as many heroics as everyone else in the guild (except one other person) and running LFR multiple times a week for bonus rolls on bosses I needed things from. When it came time to do MSV, another tank was taken that had gotten lucky with some epic gear and I was told to "do more heroics".

    That, to me, was the last straw - I had already put in more effort than most other people in the guild, and was told to "work harder" as another person who decided it wasn't necessary to gem/enchant his epic gear got to raid to his heart's content. I put in a huge amount of time at the beginning of the expansion, only to see all of that effort be completed disregarded.

    So, three "raiding" guilds in a row - each and every one ended up being a complete waste of my time. I found myself hating the thought of logging on to do a "real" raid, and with pugging all but dead on my server I just didn't have it in me to try a fourth time.

    While I am doing strictly LFR now, I don't particularly enjoy it. Yeah, it was neat seeing the content the first time or two...but now it's devolved to "Oh god, please just let us one-shot all the fights so I can go do something else that's fun". I'm grateful that LFR awards gear that is relatively powerful - it lets me do a lot more of what I really like: soloing old raids.

    As far as your bullet list of drawbacks (based on my experience, so completely subjective!):

    Healer 10-15 min queue, Dps 20-60 min queue.
    I can do quests/achievements while I'm waiting for the queue

    Potential of;
    tank fail due to pvp gear
    Hasn't happened very often...at least, not if you get it done before Friday

    Heal fail due to healers being in dips spec because they were too good for dps queues.
    This has happened maybe one time.

    DPS fail because of not following the mechanics that they know better than to do (AOE on DWing thumb)
    This is the biggest problem in LFR that I've run into...after a wipe or two people usually learn or the Determination buff helps those of us that are paying attention pick up the slack.

    Unenchanted/ungemmed/unforged/wrong gear/no knowledge of class/no knowledge of the encounter
    Enchanting/gemming gear isn't really necessary for LFR. Before Friday, most people are good about learning after a wipe or two.

    Afk players
    If that has been happening, I haven't noticed it.

    Players barely trying
    Same thing as AFK players.

    People who grief you because they are 1 in 8 million and no consequences.
    This has happened a handful of times...not much you can do about it besides kicking them, just like any other area in the game.

    Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
    When this has come up, people are usually good to say "uh, they're a healer..." Conversely, most people will point out a DPS/healer not pulling their weight in their role pretty quickly.

    DPS in tank spec
    Happened one time during Dragon Soul (and they won the trinket off Ultraxion QQ). Just like griefers, not much you can do outside of kicking them.

    Huntards killing you with misdirect for shits and giggles
    I've never seen this happen.

    People screaming at you for tanking wrong
    The only time I've seen this is when the tank is actually tanking incorrectly (taking a leisurely stroll between pillars on Lei Shin, not picking up adds, facing bosses with conal/cleaves at the raid, etc.).

    People screaming
    Doesn't happen that often, and when it does I can ignore it (or laugh at it) because I only have to deal with the morons for another hour or so.

    SUB-PAR crappy versions of LFR gear.
    I can do almost everything I want to with the LFR gear. Besides, I feel much better about being an almost Rank 10 brawler in "sub-par crappy LFR gear" while people in full normal-mode gear are still struggling in Rank 7/8.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by spiderpk View Post
    I left due to a series of events that left me realizing that putting in the time to raid just isn't worth it (at least, not on my server):

    - In Wrath, I was part of a semi-casual progression guild. We finally got to LK 25 only to have the RL buy a LK kill and start us over on heroic modes for gear. I didn't agree with the decision, so that coupled with a few other things (newborn, more demands at work, desire for more than three hours of sleep a night) led me to seek a more casual guild. Queue slight distaste of raiding due to the realization that I may not get to enjoy the game the way I want to because other people are so focused on gear.

    - In Cata, I was raid leader for a casual raiding guild starting partway through T11. We downed T11 when the better raiders were still in the guild, but they all took a break partway through T12. I was told specifically not to worry about recruiting (which I hate doing and I am NOT the type of person that can sell...well...anything), but the recruiting officer wasn't recruiting either. We never downed Rag, and only got Hagara down once or twice before I quickly got fed up with half the raid dying to Hour of Twilight and/or Fading Light...especially with LFR was available as a learning tool.

    - At the end of Cata I joined my last progression guild as part of the second raid team. At the beginning of MoP RNG sucked for me - if I remember correctly I was still sporting a couple of 430-ish blue pieces and a green trinket (still around a 460-ish ilevel), despite running twice as many heroics as everyone else in the guild (except one other person) and running LFR multiple times a week for bonus rolls on bosses I needed things from. When it came time to do MSV, another tank was taken that had gotten lucky with some epic gear and I was told to "do more heroics".

    That, to me, was the last straw - I had already put in more effort than most other people in the guild, and was told to "work harder" as another person who decided it wasn't necessary to gem/enchant his epic gear got to raid to his heart's content. I put in a huge amount of time at the beginning of the expansion, only to see all of that effort be completed disregarded.

    So, three "raiding" guilds in a row - each and every one ended up being a complete waste of my time. I found myself hating the thought of logging on to do a "real" raid, and with pugging all but dead on my server I just didn't have it in me to try a fourth time.

    While I am doing strictly LFR now, I don't particularly enjoy it. Yeah, it was neat seeing the content the first time or two...but now it's devolved to "Oh god, please just let us one-shot all the fights so I can go do something else that's fun". I'm grateful that LFR awards gear that is relatively powerful - it lets me do a lot more of what I really like: soloing old raids.

    As far as your bullet list of drawbacks (based on my experience, so completely subjective!):

    Healer 10-15 min queue, Dps 20-60 min queue.
    I can do quests/achievements while I'm waiting for the queue

    Potential of;
    tank fail due to pvp gear
    Hasn't happened very often...at least, not if you get it done before Friday

    Heal fail due to healers being in dips spec because they were too good for dps queues.
    This has happened maybe one time.

    DPS fail because of not following the mechanics that they know better than to do (AOE on DWing thumb)
    This is the biggest problem in LFR that I've run into...after a wipe or two people usually learn or the Determination buff helps those of us that are paying attention pick up the slack.

    Unenchanted/ungemmed/unforged/wrong gear/no knowledge of class/no knowledge of the encounter
    Enchanting/gemming gear isn't really necessary for LFR. Before Friday, most people are good about learning after a wipe or two.

    Afk players
    If that has been happening, I haven't noticed it.

    Players barely trying
    Same thing as AFK players.

    People who grief you because they are 1 in 8 million and no consequences.
    This has happened a handful of times...not much you can do about it besides kicking them, just like any other area in the game.

    Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
    When this has come up, people are usually good to say "uh, they're a healer..." Conversely, most people will point out a DPS/healer not pulling their weight in their role pretty quickly.

    DPS in tank spec
    Happened one time during Dragon Soul (and they won the trinket off Ultraxion QQ). Just like griefers, not much you can do outside of kicking them.

    Huntards killing you with misdirect for shits and giggles
    I've never seen this happen.

    People screaming at you for tanking wrong
    The only time I've seen this is when the tank is actually tanking incorrectly (taking a leisurely stroll between pillars on Lei Shin, not picking up adds, facing bosses with conal/cleaves at the raid, etc.).

    People screaming
    Doesn't happen that often, and when it does I can ignore it (or laugh at it) because I only have to deal with the morons for another hour or so.

    SUB-PAR crappy versions of LFR gear.
    I can do almost everything I want to with the LFR gear. Besides, I feel much better about being an almost Rank 10 brawler in "sub-par crappy LFR gear" while people in full normal-mode gear are still struggling in Rank 7/8.

    If you haven't seen tanks getting yelled at it is because you are not paying attention. I seriously get yelled at no less than once a week... usually by a normal mode hero that doesn't have a clue. Most people that scream at tanks do not have a clue what they are talking. Last week we had a guy screaming at us for sitting lei shen at one corner for more than 30 seconds... full on cursing at us while not having a clue what he was talking about.

    I blew through brawlers guild all the way to the dark summoner which caused problems for me because of how the light interacts with mouse movement. Once I got that under control I had him down (fourth try). I am on try 20ish for Hexos but I am having more problems with lag getting me on him than anything. I am not sure if I even have the dps for him because I always eat it around 25-50% health. And that has kept me from really trying hard on it... The way I have my bars setup for WW is not exactly Hexos friendly since a single glance down at my stuff is enough to get me killed.

    Anyway back on topic... I enjoy watching the people in much better gear than me lose over and over on bosses I killed in 1 to 2 tries without looking it up. But hey I am just a noob no skill idiot in LFR.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 05:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciddy View Post
    I never left raiding specifically due to LFR. I quit playing at the end of Cataclysm because I got bored of the game (that was a looong time to go with nothing but DS). At that point, I'd been raiding 8 hours a week for the past 6 years and was starting to get burned out, so I took a break. My guild also started falling apart and eventually died a slow death through most of Cataclysm.

    So I came back in about 5.2 and joined a friend's guild as a non-raider. I can't commit to their raid schedules, so I just act as a backup for them. I use LFR to keep my gear at least somewhat up to date so I can be effective in that role. If I happen to be online when they're short a DPS, great. I just don't like feeling an obligation to log on at raid times, so I don't promise that I'm going to be there. LFR is perfect for that.

    And to be honest, I haven't had _that_ many bad experiences in LFR. Maybe I'm just lucky, but aside from occasionally having to kick the random AFKer/person who disconnected, most of my LFR runs have gone pretty smoothly. Except for the fact that I seem to have shit luck with actually getting gear, but at least most of my LFRs have been decent enough.

    The system has been refined a lot since Cataclysm, that much is for sure. At least now assholes who don't even need the gear can't roll on it, win it, then say "Hm....well, you're only number 2 on the damage meters, and number 1 beat you by 1%, so I don't think you're good enough to deserve this. I'm just going to vendor it." I lost Gurthalak to that on my first Madness kill in LFR and just said "fuck it" after that. Or just groups of 10 guildies coming in and need rolling everything so they could trade it amongst themselves. That was really my least favorite thing about doing LFR on my alts in Cataclysm. Thankfully, MoP fixed the above.
    Yeah I rarely got gear in LFR because people where needing things to try and trade or just to be jerks and vendor/DE it. I don't mind having to do a major portion of the tanking/healing/DPS in LFR so long as the bads I am dragging along with me can't do that.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterstrife View Post
    I've NEVER seen anyone choosing LFR over Raid Guilds. Even casuals who are in my guild are more than happy to fill empty raid slots when called upon.
    the only reason i would ever do that.. is for the gear.. no way i would in a "progress" run.. better loot is fun, it takeing longer then it would on LFR is not
    and i dont wanna commit to a raid time and have some1 fire me from a guild or replace me just because i might be late or doing 1-3% dps less then that other guy
    Last edited by Draknalor186; 2013-06-24 at 11:27 PM.

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  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    the only reason i would ever do that.. is for the gear.. no way i would in a "progress" run.. better loot is fun, it takeing longer then it would on LFR is not
    and i dont wanna commit to a raid time and have some1 fire me from a guild or replace me just because i might be late or doing 1-3% dps less then that other guy
    That doesn't really happen, except maybe at the bleeding edge of progression unless there's other major issues.


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  12. #372
    I do both TBH. I am forced to do both because of the legendary quest......I usually just auto follow a person or auto attack the boss. The sad part is when I do 25k auto attacking and I'm ranked 14th on the meters.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Yeah this is a big problem, I had it myself. Like, I quit raiding because of the fact I could no longer make the time commitment but still play like what? 30-40 hours per week at least? But the thing is I can't guarantee that I will be playing SPECIFICALLY at 8:00-12:00 on Wednesday anymore.
    I've often said that I don't have enough time to raid but actually this is more accurate.

    I can play games anywhere from 6-8 hours an evening, but it's always after the normal raid guilds have begun raiding. It's not that I can't put in 40+ hours a week into playing WoW, just not at the times someone else wants me to play.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigeri View Post
    Being able to totally ignore everyone and everything is exactly why LFR at it's current state is bad. It offers rewards for doing nothing. It doesn't promote learning, it doesn't make people want to perform better. LFR has it's upsides obviously, but it would be madness to deny that it also has it's downsides aswell. I can imagine LFR being the only option for those who have a lot of variance in their work shifts. That was the problem for me when I was still working as a security guard. I wish flex-raids become popular, it seems that they should offer that slight challenge that might drive people in to the mindset necessary to improve their gameplay and characters instead of constantly ignoring mechanics and other players.

    About the writing up an application, would you pick people blindly without ever asking their backgrounds? There's a reason for asking for applications, they don't need to be just like job-applications, but a well written application with basic information such as your activity, experience and maybe even hardware tells alot. Not about just that particular information, but about you as a person. If someone who asks about a spot from our guild tells me that he doesn't want to write up even a simple, decently written application.. I'd just wish them good luck with searching. If one doesn't bother to write for a few minutes, how can I expect them to have the necessary consumables and focus for raids?

    But since you seem to have quitted wow, I guess you might had the same thoughts and I guess that quitting wow might have been the best option you had.

    I guess that's all for now.
    It doesn't promote learning? Thats funny, whenever we get in a real raid and people have problems with a mechanic like the attunement disk spiral we tell them to go practice in LFR. Sounds like learning to me.

  15. #375
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    But I need guaranteed loot to keep raiding, there is nothing fun in wasting 5-8 hours doing LFR and not receiving any loot.
    In what way do you get guaranteed loot when doing normal mode raiding?

    Your group gets guaranteed loot. But there's nothing that assures any particular member of usable loot, even if he can take any piece of loot he wants.

    I think you just overestimate how quickly you gear through normal mode.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by spiderpk View Post
    I left due to a series of events that left me realizing that putting in the time to raid just isn't worth it (at least, not on my server):

    - In Wrath, I was part of a semi-casual progression guild. We finally got to LK 25 only to have the RL buy a LK kill and start us over on heroic modes for gear. I didn't agree with the decision, so that coupled with a few other things (newborn, more demands at work, desire for more than three hours of sleep a night) led me to seek a more casual guild. Queue slight distaste of raiding due to the realization that I may not get to enjoy the game the way I want to because other people are so focused on gear.

    - In Cata, I was raid leader for a casual raiding guild starting partway through T11. We downed T11 when the better raiders were still in the guild, but they all took a break partway through T12. I was told specifically not to worry about recruiting (which I hate doing and I am NOT the type of person that can sell...well...anything), but the recruiting officer wasn't recruiting either. We never downed Rag, and only got Hagara down once or twice before I quickly got fed up with half the raid dying to Hour of Twilight and/or Fading Light...especially with LFR was available as a learning tool.

    - At the end of Cata I joined my last progression guild as part of the second raid team. At the beginning of MoP RNG sucked for me - if I remember correctly I was still sporting a couple of 430-ish blue pieces and a green trinket (still around a 460-ish ilevel), despite running twice as many heroics as everyone else in the guild (except one other person) and running LFR multiple times a week for bonus rolls on bosses I needed things from. When it came time to do MSV, another tank was taken that had gotten lucky with some epic gear and I was told to "do more heroics".

    That, to me, was the last straw - I had already put in more effort than most other people in the guild, and was told to "work harder" as another person who decided it wasn't necessary to gem/enchant his epic gear got to raid to his heart's content. I put in a huge amount of time at the beginning of the expansion, only to see all of that effort be completed disregarded.

    So, three "raiding" guilds in a row - each and every one ended up being a complete waste of my time. I found myself hating the thought of logging on to do a "real" raid, and with pugging all but dead on my server I just didn't have it in me to try a fourth time.

    While I am doing strictly LFR now, I don't particularly enjoy it. Yeah, it was neat seeing the content the first time or two...but now it's devolved to "Oh god, please just let us one-shot all the fights so I can go do something else that's fun". I'm grateful that LFR awards gear that is relatively powerful - it lets me do a lot more of what I really like: soloing old raids.

    As far as your bullet list of drawbacks (based on my experience, so completely subjective!):

    Healer 10-15 min queue, Dps 20-60 min queue.
    I can do quests/achievements while I'm waiting for the queue

    Potential of;
    tank fail due to pvp gear
    Hasn't happened very often...at least, not if you get it done before Friday

    Heal fail due to healers being in dips spec because they were too good for dps queues.
    This has happened maybe one time.

    DPS fail because of not following the mechanics that they know better than to do (AOE on DWing thumb)
    This is the biggest problem in LFR that I've run into...after a wipe or two people usually learn or the Determination buff helps those of us that are paying attention pick up the slack.

    Unenchanted/ungemmed/unforged/wrong gear/no knowledge of class/no knowledge of the encounter
    Enchanting/gemming gear isn't really necessary for LFR. Before Friday, most people are good about learning after a wipe or two.

    Afk players
    If that has been happening, I haven't noticed it.

    Players barely trying
    Same thing as AFK players.

    People who grief you because they are 1 in 8 million and no consequences.
    This has happened a handful of times...not much you can do about it besides kicking them, just like any other area in the game.

    Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
    When this has come up, people are usually good to say "uh, they're a healer..." Conversely, most people will point out a DPS/healer not pulling their weight in their role pretty quickly.

    DPS in tank spec
    Happened one time during Dragon Soul (and they won the trinket off Ultraxion QQ). Just like griefers, not much you can do outside of kicking them.

    Huntards killing you with misdirect for shits and giggles
    I've never seen this happen.

    People screaming at you for tanking wrong
    The only time I've seen this is when the tank is actually tanking incorrectly (taking a leisurely stroll between pillars on Lei Shin, not picking up adds, facing bosses with conal/cleaves at the raid, etc.).

    People screaming
    Doesn't happen that often, and when it does I can ignore it (or laugh at it) because I only have to deal with the morons for another hour or so.

    SUB-PAR crappy versions of LFR gear.
    I can do almost everything I want to with the LFR gear. Besides, I feel much better about being an almost Rank 10 brawler in "sub-par crappy LFR gear" while people in full normal-mode gear are still struggling in Rank 7/8.
    Yeah I must of been too subtle in my OP, as I'm not saying these things happen in every LFR and LFR=bad, I am saying if you have the POTENTIAL of all these things happening in LFR then why do you choose LFR over Raid Guilds. The point was that anti-LFR people seem to think that LFR is stealing players from Raid guilds but if Raid Guilds are so awesome sauce then how could that be possible? How could something so great have something that has the potential for screw ups screwing up your play time stealing players from it? The answer that anti-LFR people don't seem to get is that LFR is better than A) not having anything to do because they dont have time to commit to a raid guild schedule, B) having to deal with the drama associated with Raid Guilds.

    Basically Raid Guilds created LFR by being exclusive and Drama, LFR didn't steal anyone away. LFR exists because the game was intended for its entire player base not just those that were hand picked to see the end content and get the loot.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 03:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    In what way do you get guaranteed loot when doing normal mode raiding?

    Your group gets guaranteed loot. But there's nothing that assures any particular member of usable loot, even if he can take any piece of loot he wants.

    I think you just overestimate how quickly you gear through normal mode.
    Its a common practice to have it so that those who are officers and GM to get the first crack at loot and anyone else can have some after the officers get theirs. So yeah, for a few it is guaranteed loot.

  17. #377
    Work, simple as that. My schedule varies from week to week, season to season. The one I'll have all the free time in the world, the other no time at all.
    Do I consider LFR as real raiding? No, absolutely not. But, I can't commit to a schedule anymore, one can't have the luxery of being in school forever, so I'm content with what I have in LFR to see content and progress gearwise.
    Last edited by Mitsjel; 2013-06-25 at 03:55 AM.

  18. #378
    I don't consider LFR to be raiding either, I once took my friends who said they wanted to raid into LFR to see how they reacted to it. After downing Deathwing they were ecstatic and cheered that they were real raiders now, to which I said, "No, not really." and then I defined what I meant, "LFR is a good intro to Raiding, but this would be like buying a 10-speed bike and rolling up to Lance Armstrong and commenting that you are both olympic bikers now." Then they decided to pursue a raiding guild and they are normal raiders today.

    However that being said, I do enjoy going into LFR with 2 or 3 friends and progressing my character. I study the strats and I inform my Guild what to do when we have new peeps in LFR. I like knowing that every loot drop makes me better on Raid night, so the Guild can progress easier based on my efforts in LFR. LFR gives me a leg up because I have seen 3/5 of the mechanics. Every time I queue up I roll the dice yes, but I enjoy LFR.

    The fact is if you take away LFR you will have more people quit the game because they will be left with dailies and the same old 5 mans. You would do far far less damage to the subscription base if you said that there will no longer be normal and heroic raids. Do I want those removed? No, but the reality is that LFR is here to stay because it is good for the game as a whole.

  19. #379
    I used to be LFR-only, but I got bored and tired of it, and I decided it was time for me to move up in raiding. So I joined a raiding guild quite recently, and have made 3/12 Normal progress in ToT so far. I hope to do more in the coming weeks.

  20. #380
    I stay in my own personal guild because of the requirement for a raiding guild is to much resonsibility for me, so I stick with lfr.

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