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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickHunter40245 View Post
    I used to be LFR-only, but I got bored and tired of it, and I decided it was time for me to move up in raiding. So I joined a raiding guild quite recently, and have made 3/12 Normal progress in ToT so far. I hope to do more in the coming weeks.
    Would you say that LFR gave you a taste of the Raiding scene and you liked the taste but got tired of tasting the same thing over and over again so you pursued a Raiding Guild? If you had not ever seen LFR do you think you would of joined a Raiding Guild?

  2. #382
    If you haven't seen tanks getting yelled at it is because you are not paying attention. I seriously get yelled at no less than once a week... usually by a normal mode hero that doesn't have a clue. Most people that scream at tanks do not have a clue what they are talking. Last week we had a guy screaming at us for sitting lei shen at one corner for more than 30 seconds... full on cursing at us while not having a clue what he was talking about.
    It sucks that you routinely get grouped with the dregs of WoW society, but like I said it's completely subjective - I know other people have different experiences, some better and some worse. For what it's worth, I've been paying attention and I can't recall any tank being yelled at for tanking correctly.

    Anyway back on topic... I enjoy watching the people in much better gear than me lose over and over on bosses I killed in 1 to 2 tries without looking it up. But hey I am just a noob no skill idiot in LFR.
    My point about the Brawler's guild (and a LOT of other gear-dependent content) was that it can be done in "sub-par crappy LFR gear", so the quality of the gear compared to normal/heroic mode isn't a factor (again, for me).

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Yeah I must of been too subtle in my OP...<snip>
    Nope, I get what you're saying; I was just kind of adding my reasons/experiences to the mix. I guess you can sum up my post as "it's entirely subjective". Even though the potential exists (and I'm well aware that it does exist), I haven't had that much of an issue with any of the drawbacks...therefore, for me, the risk of those drawbacks isn't very high. The next person in line may have the opposite experience and either feel forced into normals or just quit the game.

    As far as LFR stealing raiders...as I'm sure a lot of other people have said, Blizzard has the numbers and we don't - we can guess why (or even IF) normal modes are losing players (game-wide, not on each server - there are definitely some servers that have suffered big losses since Wrath), but we don't know for sure. The statement "all raid guilds are full of drama" is just as dumb as "LFR is killing raiding".

    If I had to guess, there's not a single answer as to why some people prefer LFR over normal modes. I think it's a mix of people that have never raided, don't have the time/skill to do normal modes, are content with just seeing some content with a chance at epics, are fed up with bad experiences with raid guilds, are burned out, or whatever else. Now, those who know about normal modes and simply don't want to do them probably aren't going to change their mind, but if beginning bosses were puggable with 2/3 of the raid only pulling 80% of their weight (think Sarth, FL or Marrowgar) many servers would probably see an increase in PUGs. This could lead to more visibility of the pool of available raiders and let said raiders see if the atmosphere of a guild (based on interaction with members during PUGs) fit them...all before even talking about an application.

    Flex raiding may or may not be a step in the right direction...but I'm not holding my breath. Seems great for things like openraid and friends on different servers, but not such a great way to bolster an apparently dwindling raiding population.

  3. #383
    Everyone does lfr for gear. It is not real raiding and deserves no gear. Maybe if it was hard i would call it raiding but afk ... I mean lfr is not raiding

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Tara senko View Post
    Everyone does lfr for gear. It is not real raiding and deserves no gear. Maybe if it was hard i would call it raiding but afk ... I mean lfr is not raiding
    No gear = no reason for people to experience the content over again. No one experiencing the content again means that 3 weeks after the content is released no on can get queued into an LFR again to experience the content. So if a new player got to 90 and wanted to see the content they woud have no opportunity to see it because everyone has seen it and has no reason to go back in to help the new guy see it.

    Sorry but your ideal doesn't work in a real world setting. Yeah it would be great to have flying cars but the reality of the situation is that people are bad enough drivers on the ground that we don't need people able to hit you from all directions including from above and beneath. There are so many planes in the air that we need air traffic control to keep them from hitting one another, now multiply that by 1 million car owners per plane and the whole ideal becomes impossible in reality.

    You are just going to have to live with LFR giving gear.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Gniral View Post
    i admit i generally like more challenge in my games, but unfortunately the cons associated with traditional raiding are far too much.
    if there was some kind of LF-Normal Raids, unlockable by proving your worth in Proving Grounds or something, i'd give it a try.
    but i'm not going back to schedules and guild politics anymore.
    This is completely true

  6. #386
    I've been in two raid guilds, both of which have fallen apart due to people getting tired of the game, along with a dose of GM-based drama that instigates the final decline of the guild ("this guild is mine, therefore all this gold that everyone helped generate is mine, mwahahaha"). The first was a 25-man guild in Wrath that downsized to 10-man after a good chunk of the players left during Cata, then finally fell apart in DS after the GM practically held the guild hostage. The second was a 10-man guild I joined in the tail end of Cata that fell apart once people stopped showing up halfway through T14 (because there's nothing for a 10-man to downsize to).

    Naturally, both of these events have left me rather nonplussed to organized raiding as a whole. I grew to dislike being forced to commit at least two nights a week to doing the same boss over and over, having someone mess up the mechanics, hitting a brick wall, making attempt after attempt, and finally getting past it, only to do the same shit again with the next boss. I found that once I didn't have to reserve two-four nights a week playing something I wasn't enjoying, I actually felt a lot better. Granted, I'm also not playing the game as much at the moment, but that's probably due to just being a bit tired of it in general.

    For me, LFR lets me continue to raid despite the implosion of whatever guild I'm in at the moment. It also basically guarantees success because of the likelihood of there being at least a few people who know what to do, as well as the mechanics being easy enough to summarize in a few sentences for people who don't know. I can hop in a queue, relax with some reading, let it pop, jump in, finish a few bosses in 30-45 minutes, and leave, preferably with a new epic or two. It also lets me continue the legendary questline without needing to be in an organized guild, which I appreciate (even if it all seems to be ending with a cloak instead of a weapon; way to show enhance the love, Blizzard).

    Besides, the OP exaggerates the trouble of LFR. Yes, there are dummies who don't quite know what they're doing; yes, there are people who AFK and /follow someone else the whole raid; yes, there are people who grief by pulling a boss and dropping group. But in the end, the experience is mostly positive, or positive enough not to discourage me from running it.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    At least it's more fun than having to deal with a raid guild.
    Depends on the guild you are in and that is all up to you. I have no control over my LFR groups except vote kicking and reporting which are near pointless and annoying.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Dblbaconator View Post
    I grew to dislike being forced to commit at least two nights a week to doing the same boss over and over, having someone mess up the mechanics, hitting a brick wall, making attempt after attempt, and finally getting past it, only to do the same shit again with the next boss. I found that once I didn't have to reserve two-four nights a week playing something I wasn't enjoying, I actually felt a lot better. Granted, I'm also not playing the game as much at the moment, but that's probably due to just being a bit tired of it in general.
    This is my raiding experience as well. What makes it worse is that on a low pop server there is no alternative because you're lucky to even get 10 people together on any given night, let alone 10 good players. I rolled an alt on Stormrage at the end of Cataclysm and it was a world of difference. I was pugging into heroic raids within three weeks. I came pretty close to beating out my main character for his first heroic DW kill. I think that JimmyHellfire said it best on another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Do you really think that that's a realistic model of how people in 2013 imagine digital entertainment in their free time? It shouldn't surprise anyone that it's becoming increasingly difficult to convince people that that's something they should be applying for. We live in a time where everything is personally tailored, on-demand, etc. You build your hardware the way you need it. You subscribe to channels you're interested in. You get a phone contract that suits your personal needs. You choose your own TV program as well as the air time. You get the picture. Now try selling your archaic idea of an online brothership to the average Joe next door who wants to play a cool online game in the evening.

    Also, a lot of the critics seem to massively overvalue the aspect of socializing in the game. WoW is a multiplayer RPG, not Second Life or a dating site. Perhaps some people aren't quite aware of that. It's about interacting with the game world and it's obstacles in a cooperative or competitive way first and foremost. Building personal long-distance relationships maintained on a daily basis definitely isn't something people are interested in by default when they're actually just trying to play a game.

    I already have a personal social environment. I definitely don't need a second one, in the computer. Playing multiplayer games for me is cooperating with other players to beat the game. Watching what they're doing, doing something that's complemental and constructive. Or compete with them in a PvP environment. Just like Unreal Tournament in 2000.

    I don't necessarily wanna make friends in a game. I have friends. I don't want to integrate a whole new social microstructure in my life just to play a computer game - and certainly not one that even expects me to adhere to some concepts of loyalty, continuity and commitment. It's normal, you draw a line between the real life and entertainment in your pastime.

    We can have a talk ingame or have a good laugh. Put someone on your friends list and play with the same guy on another occasion. It's just people playing, no strings attached. But the idea of "community" and "socializing" a lot of people here have is really kind of pushy. I don't want to marry into a guild. And from what I can tell, a lot of people don't. It's just not 1999 anymore, MMOs have developed from a geek's playground to a mainstream form of digital entertainment today.

  9. #389
    I've been raiding now for the better part of 9 years between various MMOs (including almost 5 years in WoW). Then sometime in March, I had an amazing opportunity open up and took it. For the past 3 months I found that I just couldn't pull off the raid schedule for my team anymore (that coupled with the annoyance of trying to raid on Stormrage with its 1000+ queues only to be sat for 2.5 hours when I did get in). I had already completed ToT and didn't care if I missed a heroic clear this tier, so I switched to doing LFR when I had the time. I switched my focus to brawlers guild, pet battling and leveling alts to take a break for a bit. Now I'm going to try and have some fun with the game and perhaps raid with a new group instead of worrying about competing for any rankings.

  10. #390
    Blademaster Nashud's Avatar
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    Going on raids in serious raiding guilds is often like a JOB. I just dont like fixed Schedules and responsibility in my GAMES ... For that i have Real Life

  11. #391
    The thing is WoW is not one of those games that appeals to a lot of people.
    It's old graphics and the gameplay is outdated.

    Players are use to more visceral combat that's more grounded in physics. Leveling up isn't that exciting anymore because you have 90 levels to go through.
    It's like Basketball games VS Soccer. Which points do you think are valued more?

    Overall it's a shallow game without challenge or giving you a sense of achievement. The game's engine is just too old to do anything compelling that other AAA titles can offer.
    So if you go the path that every other game is going without all the technology and IGNORING what niche you had over other games?
    You're bound to sink.
    Luckily this game only needs what, 1 million to maintain profitable?

  12. #392
    I have a 13 month old child. My first one. I have no idea if I'll even be able to log in tonight and that's not fair to my guild. So I'm a lfr hero because no one cares if I drop after the second boss to change a diaper. I can raid 3.bosses a night or raid at 5pm my time on Thursday and then 8 am Saturday.

    Let heroics give mounts and +100 ilevel gear and fucking sparklers, let me only get access 6 weeks after everyone else... But lfr is fun for me.

  13. #393
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Noted without much comment:

    http://blessingofkings.blogspot.com/...6/why-lfr.html

    This thread got noticed at Blessing of Kings.
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