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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
    DPS in tank spec

    And through all of this crap that is the random bundle that we call LFR people STILL choose to abandon Raid Guilds for LFR, so why?
    First part of what i quoted made me laugh. Seen some try to do that.
    Also people wanting to kick a healer because he did more dps than most of the dps. He was top healer too, but people went "omg healer do dps he must be dps-specced". Did get to explain it enough for him not to get kicked though.

    Second part.
    Hate those being tankspecced, because it means they're so everbad that they found out they can only survive if they're in tankspec.

    I haven't abandoned raids, i just had to use it to get some better gear, when we first started in tot, without having gear from previous raids.
    Made it matter if i had done lfr or not.
    Next tier i'm not going to do it i guess :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    I don't have the time to commit to raiding; and I don't know a group of 9 - 24 other people who play the same schedule as me and are as good as I am to push heroic progress as sporadically as I play.
    i REALLY don't get that argument.
    "i'm so good that i only want to play HCs.. or lfr"
    what? How about going for normals. Plenty of casuals there that are decently good, but just don't do HCs because it does require some more time than they want to invest.
    Can probably find somebody that raids 4-6 hours pr week, which isn't a lot, that would love a nice, good raider.
    Everyone has so much to say
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  2. #42
    And what is so great about so-called "proper" raiding?

    The LFR player: Plays at their own leisure, gets to see the content, gets pretty decent gear over time, able to complete the legendary quest, can spend week nights with friends / family - basically people that care about you.

    The raider: Stuck to a schedule 3-4 nights a week, gets no reward for the effort and time put into clearing content when it's current, has to fight against others for decent gear usually gets screwed over by "loot councils" favoring themselves, spends their nights with people that really don't give a shit about them as a person.

    Seems pretty obvious why LFR is popular, it promotes a much healthier attitude towards life and the game.

  3. #43
    I dont raid cuz people ask for Achivments or Experience, prefer LFR, just join in and do it. That's how it used to be back in Wrath, i had a guild that ran raids just to show people and have fun, we wiped but thats alright, cuz that was part of the learning experience, so we had no drama and just big laughs and joke around most of the time. by the end... we did get 11/12 on ICC, While having fun. Guilds lack that at this time... using my guild for perks atm.

    Now its: Do you know the fights?
    Your answer: No... but i can learn...
    Their answer: .... *silent*

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    That is part of my reason. Last guild I was in I told them from the start I do not want to raid lead I just want to join and play take a wild guess what I had to do to try to get anything done.

    I can know fights like the back of my hand but I never been that good at explaining them and that was one of the reasons I did not want to raid lead. But yet I kept getting forced into doing it and it got to the point where I just could not be asked anymore.

    Those are not my only reasons but they are up there in my top reasons.
    Give yourself some time until you get the itch for raiding. Because when you have a good team - it beats LFR on every level.

  5. #45
    Gear is secondary, I do group activities in a game to have fun. An application tells me right off the bat you won't be fun. I'll stick to doing LFR (solo or w/ friends) and chatting in Mumble or guild chat.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    And what is so great about so-called "proper" raiding?

    The LFR player: Plays at their own leisure, gets to see the content, gets pretty decent gear over time, able to complete the legendary quest, can spend week nights with friends / family - basically people that care about you.

    The raider: Stuck to a schedule 3-4 nights a week, gets no reward for the effort and time put into clearing content when it's current, has to fight against others for decent gear usually gets screwed over by "loot councils" favoring themselves, spends their nights with people that really don't give a shit about them as a person.

    Seems pretty obvious why LFR is popular, it promotes a much healthier attitude towards life and the game.
    The great about so-called "proper" raiding is the amount of fun you get out of it. Believe it or not, it's not the same for everyone. If you prefer LFR - by all means- go for it. But to spill nonsense like LFR promotes healthier attitude towards life and game it's just plain stupid.

  7. #47
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    1. Raiding guild drama mostly. It's upsetting when it happens and after a while will lead to a "who needs this stuff" moment.

    2. Related to this was the pressure to do stuff I didn't really want to do--or even need to--because 'you'll lose your spot' if you don't come 100% prepared'. Again, enough of that and eventually there's a 'who needs this' moment.

    3. Schedules and the implicit threat that if you miss one night, your spot will be gone.

    4. The game should be fun and not about stressing out over trivial things (see all of the above).

    It's been a much better game for me since I got out of the regular raiding guild thing. Observing from outside now it seems to me as if raiding guild culture is worse than ever. I look over a lot of application forms, keep up with the recruiting boards now and then and follow guild management discussions because the subject interests me and frankly the impression I get is that most progression guilds are simply NOT having fun.

    And if it's not fun, it's pointless. A lot of guilds, in their desire to act like they imagine the well-known and truly elite--in the best sense of the word--guilds act, completely miss the point. You either have a team that pulls together or you don't. Back in the day a lot of guilds were being held together by force and the simple fact that if you lost your spot a huge chunk of really good content would be closed to you. Pugs? Can't pug if you don't have the achievement. How do you normally get the achievement? Historically, in a raiding guild. That's neither pleasant or does much to get a good team to pull together.

    So no, I don't miss it. I raid casually now with a no-pressure guild, we die a lot, laugh even more, and it's all good. We're all looking forward to flex raiding so we can take extra people along.
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  8. #48
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    I don't want to raid in a guild. It's that simple. I'd rather just derp around in LFR and pug Normals whenever I want because I have gear from said LFR and it's a great system for me. Flex raid just expands on this and gives even more opportunity for players like me. The days of making people go through effort of sitting around with people in a game to raid at an exact time a few times a week are over for me and a lot of other people...why else you think LFR is so popular? Why is Flex raiding being added? All the little special snowflakes can melt away. I don't care about your big guilds or your special mounts or whatever else you like to smugly think is important. I like to go into raids whenever I want because they're fun. I play the game to have fun. What I do is fun.

    If LFR and Flex raiding and pugging and casual guilds and whatever else are so bad why are they so successful? Why are they actively destroying the guild system if they are not a better way to play?
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  9. #49
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Give yourself some time until you get the itch for raiding. Because when you have a good team - it beats LFR on every level.
    I agree with this despite what I posted. A good question that the more thoughtful in the raiding community should think about is why so many people are opting out of it.
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  10. #50
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    I never raided much to begin with because of time constraints. I predict that lfr will take the back burner and flex raiding will be my main source of raiding in 5.4 though.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  11. #51
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Nobody is asking this question because they prefer to be blind to the truth, that there is something seriously wrong with our raiding community if some one would choose to accept that bad things that happen in LFR rather than joining the raiding community.
    Well, not entirely no one . I ask it all the time and have an interest in understanding why people who raid regularly can't see the problem.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    1. Raiding guild drama mostly. It's upsetting when it happens and after a while will lead to a "who needs this stuff" moment.

    2. Related to this was the pressure to do stuff I didn't really want to do--or even need to--because 'you'll lose your spot' if you don't come 100% prepared'. Again, enough of that and eventually there's a 'who needs this' moment.

    3. Schedules and the implicit threat that if you miss one night, your spot will be gone.

    4. The game should be fun and not about stressing out over trivial things (see all of the above).

    It's been a much better game for me since I got out of the regular raiding guild thing. Observing from outside now it seems to me as if raiding guild culture is worse than ever. I look over a lot of application forms, keep up with the recruiting boards now and then and follow guild management discussions because the subject interests me and frankly the impression I get is that most progression guilds are simply NOT having fun.

    And if it's not fun, it's pointless. A lot of guilds, in their desire to act like they imagine the well-known and truly elite--in the best sense of the word--guilds act, completely miss the point. You either have a team that pulls together or you don't. Back in the day a lot of guilds were being held together by force and the simple fact that if you lost your spot a huge chunk of really good content would be closed to you. Pugs? Can't pug if you don't have the achievement. How do you normally get the achievement? Historically, in a raiding guild. That's neither pleasant or does much to get a good team to pull together.

    So no, I don't miss it. I raid casually now with a no-pressure guild, we die a lot, laugh even more, and it's all good. We're all looking forward to flex raiding so we can take extra people along.
    I don't get the drama part. When you are in contact with other people - there will surely be some drama at one point in time. Be that at work, in your family, among your friends, in a bus or WoW. But if you are normal person that shit passes and all is good again. For instance, I am going to a barbecue with some former guildies - that is a very good by-product of organized raiding.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    Time, it's as simple as that. I haven't raided properly for many many years now, because it required too much of my time. And I don't want to play WoW just to raid.
    So now with LFR I can "raid" and do other things that I want without feeling that I have to play all the time.

  14. #54
    Most guilds on my server are looking for 510 item level or higher and since I haven't been in a normal raiding guild this tier, I don't have it.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    If LFR and Flex raiding and pugging and casual guilds and whatever else are so bad why are they so successful? Why are they actively destroying the guild system if they are not a better way to play?
    Don't think they're actively destroying the system.
    Seen a bunch of old raids wanting to raid as always, but they've had a hard time. Being stuck early on in raid, and people won't accept more than max 2 weeks on a boss.
    Most rage even after a few wipes, because they've gotten used to wow trying to make deaths something that doesn't happen, outside of real raids.

    Of course that does get popular. Loot without work.
    Would you say no to a job that required you to work 1 hour pr day and gave as much income as you could get for an 8 hours workday at a normal job?

    And i do in no way see flex raid as a bad thing. I think it's some of the best they've done for ages. It gives the better raids the option to still have a challenge, and those raids that couldn't deal with the current raids, an option to have their fun while being in a group of just their own people, instead of being 10-11 people queuing up for lfr and know there's no accomplishment for them, in completing the tier.

    What's the thing about not wanting to raid in a guild? It's not something that is needed. Exist several raids that have outsiders in. Ours among others.
    We havn't been a guildrun ever. We maybe was in vanilla if it had existed back then.
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  16. #56
    To me drama in raiding guilds has never been so bad that I would rather take the horrors of LFR. I only do LFR few weeks after new content is released (on alts maybe more), probably not at all once flexible raids come. Biggest problem currently for my guild has been that we either have 9 players and cant raid, or have 11 and have to bench someone. Hopefully blizzard's flexible raiding experiment works well enough that they implement some of that to normal and heroic raiding.

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  17. #57
    i'd go LFR over guild raids because....nah only joking i'd unsub.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Bashkar View Post
    I run LFR because I have higher priorities; I can't justify shifting my schedule around to raid anymore.
    ...

    LFR is sufficient. I get to see content, and have a way to progress... and I'm okay with that.
    This. I'm not in a raiding guild* because
    a) some weeks I don't even log in, let alone want to raid
    b) some weeks I just want to play a lot but doing things like alts and PVP, not raiding

    LFR is fine for me. I can see the content, I can play the "ooh will my loot drop this week" game, and I am commitment free.

    I have a full time load at university (actually, it's greater than full time) plus two kids. I'm in my 30s as are most of the people I've always played with. None of us can commit to raiding anymore. Jobs became serious commitments, people have gotten married and had kids, it's just not like it was back in 2006. Flex raiding might work for us sometimes but most days you'd be very lucky for 10 people to be on at once so it's unlikely.

    *I'm in an ex-raiding guild. Were going to do 10 mans this xpac, but it never worked out.

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Yunru's Avatar
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    Guild leaders/raid leaders are usualy lootwhores. I rather slack in lfr than do this for 1 more year (raiding since vanila).

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    The great about so-called "proper" raiding is the amount of fun you get out of it. Believe it or not, it's not the same for everyone. If you prefer LFR - by all means- go for it. But to spill nonsense like LFR promotes healthier attitude towards life and game it's just plain stupid.
    It really isn't stupid though :P It's pretty obvious, but it's pointless trying to get through to someone that prefers pixels over people. LFR offers the perfect balance of having a life and playing the game, raiding guilds however do not.

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