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  1. #1

    Why do you choose LFR over Raid Guilds?

    A lot of anti-LFR people keep saying that players are leaving raiding guilds because they can get the same stuff in LFR. What you actually get in LFR is;

    Healer 10-15 min queue, Dps 20-60 min queue.
    Potential of;
    tank fail due to pvp gear
    Heal fail due to healers being in dips spec because they were too good for dps queues.
    DPS fail because of not following the mechanics that they know better than to do (AOE on DWing thumb)
    Unenchanted/ungemmed/unforged/wrong gear/no knowledge of class/no knowledge of the encounter
    Afk players
    Players barely trying
    People who grief you because they are 1 in 8 million and no consequences.
    Booted just because someone said "Kick X because of bad DPS!" When you were a healer.
    DPS in tank spec
    Huntards killing you with misdirect for shits and giggles
    People screaming at you for tanking wrong
    People screaming
    SUB-PAR crappy versions of LFR gear.

    And through all of this crap that is the random bundle that we call LFR people STILL choose to abandon Raid Guilds for LFR, so why?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    I doubt a lot of people have left raiding specifically FOR LFR. I just rejoined the raiding community myself with my guild as a 10-man raider.
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  3. #3
    I don't have the time to commit to raiding; and I don't know a group of 9 - 24 other people who play the same schedule as me and are as good as I am to push heroic progress as sporadically as I play.
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  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force Hysteria's Avatar
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    People leaving actual raiding guilds for the sake of that hellhole called LFR due to what you just described? They would be hurting themselves lol

  5. #5
    Legendary! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I assume most people do LFR because either:

    1) They can't find a raiding guild
    2) Their schedule does not comport with that of Raiding guilds
    3) they have no intent on being in a raiding guild

    And then a very, very small number of people:

    4) Would be in a raiding guild, and have the opportunity to be, but aren't because "LFR is good enough."

    And the people that fall under 4) that then complain that LFR should be removed because it's "good enough" for them and therefore "forces" them to not be in a raiding guild seem to be a very vocal source of the complaining right now. Honestly... they really need to get over themselves.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  6. #6
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    A lot of anti-LFR people keep saying that players are leaving raiding guilds because they can get the same stuff in LFR.

    ...

    And through all of this crap that is the random bundle that we call LFR people STILL choose to abandon Raid Guilds for LFR, so why?
    People don't leave raiding guilds for LFR unless their guilds are unpleasant or dysfunctional.

    Most people who only run LFR are completely unable to do organized raiding because of schedule or time constraints, or because the raiding scene on their server/faction is nonexistent. There's not really a choice between LFR and normal mode.

  7. #7
    LFR over a real guild?

    1: Schedule. I work graveyard shift, so I leave for work around 8:30pm PST. Not so good when applying "Yeah, 5 days a week, I can't raid".
    2: Drama. Last 3-4 guilds I've been part of, including one I put together at the start of Cata, have all collapsed within roughly 1 tier of content due to drama in the guild. Not worth the headache and pain. I got my friends from past guilds, we all got varying schedules and lives, so we got a F&F guild going, some of us run LFR when we can as a group. We might try some Flex raiding when that comes out in 5.4 (cause we got some off-server friends each of us we can help fill ranks if needed).
    3: Server. Korialstrasz-US is dead. Especially Horde-side. Like dead as Kael'thas is after Magister's Terrace, where we ripped his head off.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    I don't have the time to commit to raiding; and I don't know a group of 9 - 24 other people who play the same schedule as me and are as good as I am to push heroic progress as sporadically as I play.
    This. And honestly, sometimes LFR isn't much better than most crappy 10-25 raid guilds I've been in (standing in fire, shitty gear, etc).

  9. #9
    Finding a guild that raids after 12a CST isn't very common, and I'm not gonna pay real money to change servers/factions just to not be guaranteed a raid spot. If I didn't work during peak hours I probably would only go to lfr on rare occasions. So until then I'll gear my guys up in LFR and learn the basics of the fights.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
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    i never raided much before, with LFR i can join whenever i want, dont need to be there at a certain time.
    dragonmaw - EU

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Issalice's Avatar
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    I do LFR because I don't have the time to raid. My guild is currently trying to build a 10 man team up but we haven't had much luck recruiting. Most people seem to want to join a guild that is already established (which I get, not complaining about that), not many people want to start from the ground up.

    The raiding guilds I have been in have been were riddled with drama. Right now myself and my guildies gear through LFR so that we don't have to play catch up when we do get a raid group going.

  12. #12
    Reasons NOT to join a raiding guild:

    1. Time constraints
    2. bads in raiding guilds also, aka friends of friends usually
    3. drama
    4. god complex with officers and leader
    5. Bias loot councils - loots goes to leader/officers first most of time
    6. Raid leader constantly yelling at top of lungs (who has not encountered one of these)
    7. Can't make raid due to something coming up - punished, raiding comes first!
    8. Always someone on vent is annoying/know it all

    ya ya not all are like this but majority seems to be. I've had plenty of LFRs go very smooth and quick, some gone bad, but not many. Just way too much drama in most guilds now a days and to join one it seems you have to fill out apps like you are applying for a real job. Always drama over loot at some point and guild hoppers always looking for better guilds.

  13. #13
    So you would rather roll the die of LFR horrors for sub-par rewards than join the golden Age of raiding? This flies in the face of the ideal that everyone should be forced into raiding guilds that anti-LFR players want.

    If you are willing to do all the horrors involved in LFR rather than deal with a Guild that normal raids then logically there must be something wrong with the raiding guilds or you grew up and can't 24/7 wow any more.

    Perhaps raiding was always meant to be small groups of people who actually want to do that activity rather than thousands of people who are forced to join their guilds to see the content?

  14. #14
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norbac View Post
    Reasons NOT to join a raiding guild:

    1. Time constraints
    2. bads in raiding guilds also, aka friends of friends usually
    3. drama
    4. god complex with officers and leader
    5. Bias loot councils - loots goes to leader/officers first most of time
    6. Raid leader constantly yelling at top of lungs (who has not encountered one of these)
    7. Can't make raid due to something coming up - punished, raiding comes first!
    8. Always someone on vent is annoying/know it all

    ya ya not all are like this but majority seems to be. I've had plenty of LFRs go very smooth and quick, some gone bad, but not many. Just way too much drama in most guilds now a days and to join one it seems you have to fill out apps like you are applying for a real job. Always drama over loot at some point and guild hoppers always looking for better guilds.
    1. - Get a guild which raids 1-2 days á week.
    2. - Get a guild where quality in players is a factor.
    3. - Drama is just plain bad management.
    4. - Complain and/or find another guild. If nobody says anything officers / leaders won't become better.
    5. - Call it out and/or find another guild.
    6. - Call it out, tell the raid leader to calm down.
    7. - Make sure you find a guild which fits your schedule. i.e weekend raids etc.
    8. - Start a conversation with the person, it could be you who is wrong, though if not others are probably annoyed to.

    Basicly call stuff out if you're not satisfied with it, if not it will never become better. Though do so in a proper manner as to not piss everybody off by being provocative.

    Problems are seldom big problems when you look at the from a different angle.

  15. #15
    Simple.

    1. I don't have to fill out a job app.
    2. I don't have to schedule my time around 9-24 other ppl.
    3. I don't have to listen to some 13 yr old rage over vent.
    4. I don't have to share loot with 9-24 other ppl.

    Guilds and /trade raids would try and filter people with the chicken or the egg routine pre-lfr. Now the same stuck up pricks cannot fill out their roster and the same people that never got to raid can giggle and que. I say make LFR gear on par with normal mode since you want people playing together.
    "I can't see it anymore... I am 907, after a while you just can't see it. I look at a star and it's just a big ball of burning gas. I know how it began and how it ends and I was probably there both times. After a while everything is just stuff. That's the problem, you make all of time and space your backyard and what do you end up with - a backyard! But you, you can see it and when you see it, I see it." -D. Who

  16. #16
    Legendary! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    This flies in the face of the ideal that everyone should be forced into raiding guilds that anti-LFR players want.
    If LFR was removed, a lot of people would probably quit because they had nothing to do.

    But very few people would start doing normal mode raids that weren't previously doing them.

    The thought that "LFR removes the incentive for anyone to do normal modes" is completely false. And this notion needs to die.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesiz View Post
    1. - Get a guild which raids 1-2 days á week.
    2. - Get a guild where quality in players is a factor.
    3. - Drama is just plain bad management.
    4. - Complain and/or find another guild. If nobody says anything officers / leaders won't become better.
    5. - Call it out and/or find another guild.
    6. - Call it out, tell the raid leader to calm down.
    7. - Make sure you find a guild which fits your schedule. i.e weekend raids etc.
    8. - Start a conversation with the person, it could be you who is wrong, though if not others are probably annoyed to.

    Basicly call stuff out if you're not satisfied with it, if not it will never become better. Though do so in a proper manner as to not piss everybody off by being provocative.

    Problems are seldom big problems when you look at the from a different angle.
    Except finding another guild that fits your schedule can be a BIG PROBLEM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesiz View Post
    1. - Get a guild which raids 1-2 days á week.
    2. - Get a guild where quality in players is a factor.
    3. - Drama is just plain bad management.
    4. - Complain and/or find another guild. If nobody says anything officers / leaders won't become better.
    5. - Call it out and/or find another guild.
    6. - Call it out, tell the raid leader to calm down.
    7. - Make sure you find a guild which fits your schedule. i.e weekend raids etc.
    8. - Start a conversation with the person, it could be you who is wrong, though if not others are probably annoyed to.

    Basicly call stuff out if you're not satisfied with it, if not it will never become better. Though do so in a proper manner as to not piss everybody off by being provocative.

    Problems are seldom big problems when you look at the from a different angle.
    If it were that easy, LFR would not exist.

  18. #18
    Because i don't want to set aside 4 hours 2-3 times a week, to show up to the raid and hear "oh sorry, we're gonna sit you tonight because reasons, but stay online because we might need you later" or "well i know we were gonna raid but our healer didn't show so i guess we can all suck it" and then have to deal with "WAAAH WAAH IVE BEEN IN THE GUILD WHY DID GUY X GET ITEM Y WHEN CLEARLY IM SUPERIOR! WAAAH!" and whatever other kinds of drama you might find and then you leave, have to go find a new guild where i have to answer that fucking stupid ass "why should we pick you/what would you bring to the guild" question that all fucking apply templates have, hope the stars align and start all over again one they invite some retard who totally has 567 ilevel gear and deserves to get their asses licked clean during raids. Yea, I'm pretty much done with that.
    Last edited by Smeeh; 2013-06-21 at 11:06 PM.

  19. #19
    I'm not that into PvE but i think the reason is the following:
    1. Not everyone has the time to play, to be in a serious raiding guild.
    and that's it

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesiz View Post
    1. - Get a guild which raids 1-2 days á week.
    2. - Get a guild where quality in players is a factor.
    3. - Drama is just plain bad management.
    4. - Complain and/or find another guild. If nobody says anything officers / leaders won't become better.
    5. - Call it out and/or find another guild.
    6. - Call it out, tell the raid leader to calm down.
    7. - Make sure you find a guild which fits your schedule. i.e weekend raids etc.
    8. - Start a conversation with the person, it could be you who is wrong, though if not others are probably annoyed to.

    Basicly call stuff out if you're not satisfied with it, if not it will never become better. Though do so in a proper manner as to not piss everybody off by being provocative.

    Problems are seldom big problems when you look at the from a different angle.
    Most of your solutions aren't effective on anything under a high-pop server, unfortunately; there just aren't that many options. I assume that the VRs will fix most of that, but we'll have to see that play out first.

    It's much less stressful to jump into LFR than it is to work out social disfunction over the internet, with people you barely know, just for the sake of playing a video game at a higher difficulty. You could work out times to help raid members optimize their throughput, talk through the struggles the guild is having, maybe even take initiative to lead.

    It's not a matter of being unfeasible to solve, it's just not worth it for most people.

    I run LFR because I have higher priorities; I can't justify shifting my schedule around to raid anymore. I'm in a raiding guild who will take me along if they need me, assuming that my schedule lines up properly. I'd like to raid more aggressively, I thoroughly enjoyed raiding AQ and Naxx, and pushing my way through BC. I raided casually in WotLK, and barely at all in Cata.

    LFR is sufficient. I get to see content, and have a way to progress... and I'm okay with that.
    Last edited by Bashkar; 2013-06-21 at 11:13 PM.

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