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  1. #21
    T&C doesn't do much for those heavy burst tank damage moments unless RNG smiled upon you to get a 200k+ absorb, such as Triple Puncture followed by Horridon's melee hit 0.2 seconds later.
    Unless you're smart, and hold a T&C for those specifically.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Unless you're smart, and hold a T&C for those specifically.
    Certainly but it's still only going to absorb 40k or so, nothing like that 200k that was brought up earlier.

  3. #23
    As for Druid Mastery, all it does is increase Armor. Arielle could give you the numbers of how much armor he gained before and after the Mastery buff but I don't recall it being more than a 5%-10% increase to effective armor, which is nothing for those hard hitting abilities like Triple Puncture. Plus there's the fact that Armor DRs and caps at 75% physical damage reduction. I'd take Cataclysm's Bear Form Mastery any day over what Guardian currently has.
    Really if found the Cata mastery so dumb, having a 50% chance when Mangle crits to gain a shield no RNG at all^^.

    Doenst prot pala mastery does the same? it raises the Physical dmg mitigation while SotR is active. If you put it all together a druid takes about 10% more dmg than a pala on TP, with a good timed T&C you dont take any melee dmg after TP so your fine. plus you can heal yourself full every time Tp is cast aswell. And not using T&C is like a pala not using SotR for TP. And lets not forget prot pala got nerfed on SotR and are getting tweaked a bit with Sacred Shield.

    And I woud take armor cap anytime over cata mastery. In terms of armor mitigation druids take 10-20% less dmg the whole fight than other tanks. Dont know whats so bad about that and you dont even have to do anything for that extra mitigation, sure with sotr pala takes ahead but SotR has about 50-60% uptime.

    T&C doesn't do much for those heavy burst tank damage moments unless RNG smiled upon you to get a 200k+ absorb, such as Triple Puncture followed by Horridon's melee hit 0.2 seconds later.
    Just use T&C the right before TP and your save against burst save some rage to heal after TP and your good.

    Certainly but it's still only going to absorb 40k or so, nothing like that 200k that was brought up earlier.
    It already absorbs ~35k without vengeance. My T&C abosrbs are about 100-130k on Horridon not stacked. And with the swipe coming before TP alot its not even hard getting a 200k abosrb on horridon. T&C is insanely strong alot dont know that, if it would show up on logs or anywhere else people the other tanks would cry about that.

    Every TP im at full hp have T&C up aswell as SD. If i get 8 or more stacks i use barkskin, and dont forget the 10% from boneshield.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-06-22 at 09:31 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    Really if found the Cata mastery so dumb, having a 50% chance when Mangle crits to gain a shield no RNG at all^^.
    T13 made it 100% chance. Still RNG like T&C except it was baked into our most used ability. So much fun when Berserk was still 30 seconds on a fight with multiple targets within melee range.

    Doenst prot pala mastery does the same? it raises the Physical dmg mitigation while SotR is active.
    Big difference between more Damage Reduction and more Armor. Though Paladins are like Guardian in that they stack something other than Mastery for tanking (Haste for more HP generation and better uptime on SotR). Plus SotR is better for those heavy burst moments than T&C for damage mitigation since it's practically a defensive cooldown without the cooldown.

    with a good timed T&C you dont take any melee dmg after TP so your fine
    Huh? Horridon melees for over 150k on 10 normal, a single T&C doesn't fully cover that unless you manage to T&C immediately after the TP but before the next melee.

    As I mentioned earlier, the T&C absorb is appreciated but a Paladin has a much easier time dealing with Horridon tanking than a Guardian. On the flipside Guardian is better for adds.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2013-06-22 at 09:48 PM.

  5. #25
    Huh? Horridon melees for over 150k on 10 normal, a single T&C doesn't fully cover that unless you manage to T&C immediately after the TP but before the next melee.
    And you sit with like 100k Vengeance. So 1.1*100k = 110k absorb minimum.

    Horridon isn't even remotely dangerous on normal. Didn't realize that's what we were talking about. There's virtually no raid damage so all healers do is sit on the tank for lols.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Aùssa02 View Post
    I kinda thought I still needed just atleast some kind of stamina from my enchants as well still - but Ill just swap it out and try the other one ^^
    Don't need much stamina at all. My bear sitting at around 730k in raid buffs, average ilvl 541 currently 10/13 Heroic main tanking everything. I do swap in some lw stamina enchants and a trinket here and there (tanking bats on Tortos mainly)

    As others have said go for hit/expertise caps then as much crit as you can get your hands on.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    And you sit with like 100k Vengeance. So 1.1*100k = 110k absorb minimum.

    Horridon isn't even remotely dangerous on normal. Didn't realize that's what we were talking about. There's virtually no raid damage so all healers do is sit on the tank for lols.
    I think we were just talking in general whether or not I should enchant stamina for ToT normal/HC.
    Also Arielle, is there a way to track how much dmg T&C have absorbed over an entire fight, perhaps through WoL?

  8. #28
    Huh? Horridon melees for over 150k on 10 normal, a single T&C doesn't fully cover that unless you manage to T&C immediately after the TP but before the next melee.
    Horridon melees for 150k on 10m normal? Are you sure about that, cause he hits about the same amount on hc. I dont even know that cause normal Horridon i dont time T&C in any way.

    Big difference between more Damage Reduction and more Armor.
    Infact gaining 1% reduction with pala mastery is the same as 1% with druid mastery. Not saying SotR isnt really strong on fights like horridon and jikun. Just telling you that SotR reducing the dmg by 40% doenst mean the pala gets 40% less dmg than the druid from TP. SotR is the best AM ingame for alot of fights.

    As I mentioned earlier, the T&C absorb is appreciated but a Paladin has a much easier time dealing with Horridon tanking than a Guardian. On the flipside Guardian is better for adds.
    True, Guardian is by far the best tank for horridon adds, thats why on horridon HC i only tank horridon the first gate and let our monk tank the last 3 gates. So much dmg and add control.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    True, Guardian is by far the best tank for horridon adds, thats why on horridon HC i only tank horridon the first gate and let our monk tank the last 3 gates. So much dmg and add control.
    Idk, I've been successfully tanking Horridon HC in last phase while he was enraged and having 10 stacks of triple puncture as a bear, granted its in no way optimal but its not doomed to failure like some of you seem to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aùssa02 View Post
    Also Arielle, is there a way to track how much dmg T&C have absorbed over an entire fight, perhaps through WoL?
    Sadly to my knowledge you can only track the amount of times you used it not the actual absorb amounts. I guess you could estimate the amount from the count but it becomes a little difficult when its not only attacks done to you but also on the other tank that gets mitigated.
    Last edited by Evory; 2013-06-23 at 01:48 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aùssa02 View Post
    I think we were just talking in general whether or not I should enchant stamina for ToT normal/HC.
    Also Arielle, is there a way to track how much dmg T&C have absorbed over an entire fight, perhaps through WoL?
    Since youz have LW its quite easy.

    Just change bracer and leg enchant from boss to boss.

    While learning Jikun I changed both of them having a bit more Stamina helped on that fight,
    You should enchanct chest with stamina cause 80 stats is kinda crappy for a guardian, considering how much more stamina you get.

  11. #31
    I think we were just talking in general whether or not I should enchant stamina for ToT normal/HC.
    Permanent Stamina enhancements (Gems/Enchants) are always a last resort. Always swap trinkets/flask first.

    Also Arielle, is there a way to track how much dmg T&C have absorbed over an entire fight, perhaps through WoL?
    No

  12. #32
    I use the tank meta for progression fights (currently 5/13h) and I just got a third (already have one for cat OS) helm token to dump a DPS meta in for fun. How big of a survivability hit will I take if I use the DPS meta, and is it worth it?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wojtek View Post
    I use the tank meta for progression fights (currently 5/13h) and I just got a third (already have one for cat OS) helm token to dump a DPS meta in for fun. How big of a survivability hit will I take if I use the DPS meta, and is it worth it?
    Largely none and yes it's worth it, even more so for 10man.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Wojtek View Post
    I use the tank meta for progression fights (currently 5/13h) and I just got a third (already have one for cat OS) helm token to dump a DPS meta in for fun. How big of a survivability hit will I take if I use the DPS meta, and is it worth it?
    DPS meta is basically a 10-15% DPS increase depending on the encounter and how you do it. Tank meta is pretty random whether it's actually useful or not.

    Still never a bad idea to have both though. Start with the DPS meta and see if you need to switch on a given fight.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aùssa02 View Post
    I feel quite confident in my own and my healers ability to keep me alive, but it's been a running debate between me and my paladin tank if I have enough stamina - But you've convinced me that I don't need to worry about it then ^^

    Just a quick question more though.. How about meta gems? should I get the one that gives stam/armor or the one with agi/crit dmg.
    And legendary meta, which one should I choose there?
    Legendary meta should be Capacitive. I tried the Indom gem and the damage reduction was not impressive. However, the DPS increase from the Capacitive gem is staggering. (Over 10k) Until then, Agi/Crit is fine or you can use the Stam/Armor one, we get more mileage out of it since our armor rating is so high to begin with. I've been gradually gemming and enchanting out of Stamina as we've all gotten better. Now red sockets get Exp + Crit, yellow gets Crit, and blue gets Crit + Hit. No deaths on 11 kills today (except when I right-clicked and pulled Durumu by mistake in Cat Form).

  16. #36
    Huh? Horridon melees for over 150k on 10 normal, a single T&C doesn't fully cover that unless you manage to T&C immediately after the TP but before the next melee
    Took a closer look yesterday while tanking horridon hc.

    The lowest T&C while tanking was about 105k, the highest beeing about 150k. The highest i got was to about 470k(sadly the meleehit hit before TP) while actively tanking. It procced about every 7 seconds average not saying you use it every 7 seconds.

    And this is why we dont run stamina or mastery but we run crit to gain more rage, currently its almost no problem maxing uptime on SD and using T&C almost everytime it procs(unless it procs during maul cd ofc.)

    I use the tank meta for progression fights (currently 5/13h) and I just got a third (already have one for cat OS) helm token to dump a DPS meta in for fun. How big of a survivability hit will I take if I use the DPS meta, and is it worth it?
    I am 5/13hc also and main tanked everything with dps meta. Normally I am always the one that would use the Tankmeta cause even in 10m our job is it do not take damage, doing damage comes after that but with the meta I can only say "Its useless".

    The tankmeta is everything blizzard changed on Tanks. Having all Tanks use AM to take less dmg is fine, but than add a RNG procc. Even now after the nerf(LMG dmg was about 20-25% of our total dmg) the dps meta does alot of dmg like arielle said still ~10%.
    The next time you raid with TankLMG, try to focus on proccs and ask yourself if the LMG proccs actually help you or if you dont really rely on it to survive stuff. That was my problem, I either already used a CD for an ability or the LMG procced where I didnt need it.

  17. #37
    Would you suggest me to use Stamina or Agi flasks?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Aùssa02 View Post
    Would you suggest me to use Stamina or Agi flasks?
    agi flask most of the time except you want some extra hp. And agi food so maybe have second spec with feral an switch everytime you eat raidbufffood.
    honstely i am too lazy for that

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Aùssa02 View Post
    Would you suggest me to use Stamina or Agi flasks?
    Crit/Armor elixirs.

    Stamina if you need it for some reason.

  20. #40
    @Viromand and Arielle: Guess I just need to use T&C at better times if I ever have to tank Horridon again.

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