[Guardian] Trying to figure out what kind of stats I should start aiming for.

[Aùssa02]

Hello!

First of all, I am a veteran player of the class and the game in general - However I've only been playing roughly for 1½ month in MoP so for that Im a bit of a newb.

Now to my question!

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aussa/advanced

Is my druid, and I have a hard time actually finding a useful tool to figure out what gear I should go for in terms of same iLvl - I currently have an ilvl 516 wep http://www.wowhead.com/item=98260/im...pandaren-spear which gives me expertise and hit compared to the one I have that is upgraded which gives mastery and haste.

I am not sure whether or not it would be an upgrade if I was to upgrade the one with hit/exp compared to the one I currently have.

Ontop of that, I am wondering if I should get the agi trinket from VP next or get the ring from VP next as those are the 2 pieces I have that currently needs to get replaced the most.

Also I don't even know if I should actually try and get expertise and hit capped in my current ilvl? Or should I just forget those things exist and go straight for crit?

Any help or thoughts that could help me make the better decisions here is welcome - Just really looking for some advice from fellow guardians!

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Currently in a fairly casual 10m raiding guild mostly with friends (9/12 normal ToT) but progressing pretty quickly and fairly ambitious people.
I am primary tank, tho mostly on adds on bosses like Tortos etc. since we have a paladin MT.

We are gonna push for clearing last bosses on normal this week though and then start farming normal/trying hc's over the summer.

[Kioga]

Arielle posted a very thorough guide that is stickied at the top of these forums. You should start there.

Also you failed to mention whether you are in a raiding guild, and if so 10m or 25m? Are you a primary tank or backup? Are they pushing hardmodes and expect you to keep up or is it more casual?

Short answer is: hit = exp > crit > haste > mastery > dodge ...... once you have enough HP to survive.

[Aùssa02]

Arielle posted a very thorough guide that is stickied at the top of these forums. You should start there.

Also you failed to mention whether you are in a raiding guild, and if so 10m or 25m? Are you a primary tank or backup? Are they pushing hardmodes and expect you to keep up or is it more casual?

Have been through it, sadly didn't give me a clear answer so I kinda wanted to hear some opinions on the hit/exp or crit question - and to that regards my weapon question.

ofc!
Sorry, Currently in a fairly casual 10m raiding guild mostly with friends (9/12 normal ToT) but progressing pretty quickly and fairly ambitious people.
I am primary tank, tho mostly on adds on bosses like Tortos etc. since we have a paladin MT.

We are gonna push for clearing last bosses on normal this week though and then start farming normal/trying hc's over the summer.

[Kioga]

It is strongly advised that you get hit cap and Exp hard capped before gemming anything else especially if you are raiding current content.

Mastery doesn't help our RPS or active mitigation but hit/exp, crit, and haste do. So if you have the 500 points to spare then I would upgrade your hit/exp weapon since it provides (2) RPS stats. But since you need to use those pts to purchase other pieces, they take priority first.

For the time being, just reforge/gem for caps using your current weapon.

[Aùssa02]

Ah, thanks a ton for that advice - was my own thought as wel, but I wasn't at all certain I was right.

Ill keep that in mind when upgrading my gear in the future ^^

[Trubo]

1. For the 7.5% Hit mark I'd suggest switching to your Hit+Expertise polearm, getting the Shado-Pan Assault Agility DPS trinket, or both. Those two pieces together will allow you to stop reforging for Hit, heck you'd probably be able to reforge Hit on both items to Crit and still have room to spare on other pieces to maximize Crit+Haste+Expertise.

2. Why the Stamina+Dodge shoulder enchant?

3. If you're still struggling for Expertise consider the glove enchant instead of what you have for an extra 170. Plus there's always Crafty (Expertise/Crit) or Precise (pure Expertise) for red sockets though that's only two pieces with what you currently have.

[Aùssa02]

1: Without upgrading it or..?
2: Is agi+crit better? I've just not been sure which was better.

[Kioga]

Is agi+crit better? I've just not been sure which was better.

Agi isn't a desirable stat anymore. The only exception to this is if you are using the same gear to play feral but by doing so you are gimping yourself for tanking.

EDIT: my bad. I didn't realize you were asking about the agi shoulder enchant. I thought you meant agi in general. Once well geared, a majority of Bears favor the agi-crit shoulder and leg enchants over the stam+ dodge ones.

[Trubo]

1: Without upgrading it or..?
2: Is agi+crit better? I've just not been sure which was better.

1. It's more important to get the trinket than upgrading your weapon imo. LFR Terror isn't that great compared to the 522 SPA Agility DPS trinket
2. Agility is kind of meh; sure it increases attack power and dodge but not by a meaningful amount. You're basically comparing the 200 Crit to the Stamina and Dodge the tank shoulder enchant has, neither of which is really needed for you based on your other enchants and gear level.

[Aùssa02]

1: Thanks, but should I go for it over my current weapon even while not upgrading it?

2: I kinda thought I still needed just atleast some kind of stamina from my enchants as well still - but Ill just swap it out and try the other one ^^

@Kioga: I only use feral very rarely - So my gear is aimed towards guardian (reason for feral gloves is because I've gotten 2 tier tokens and the feral gloves are better than the guardian gloves untill I get the 2-set bonus).

[Trubo]

1: Thanks, but should I go for it over my current weapon even while not upgrading it?

Yes, you lose some weapon DPS, agility and stamina but you NEED that Hit and Expertise more than you need Haste+Mastery. Once your Hit+Expertise can reach 7.5% and 15%, respectively, without the need of the Hit+Expertise weapon then I would suggest going back to your original weapon. Do upgrade the Hit+Expertise weapon as soon as you can after getting the trinket (assuming of course no ToT weapon drops).

2: I kinda thought I still needed just atleast some kind of stamina from my enchants as well still - but Ill just swap it out and try the other one ^^

Stamina isn't much an issue for you since you're running with a Protection Paladin. I would maximize your DPS/RPS as much as possible.

[Aùssa02]

Yes, you lose some weapon DPS, agility and stamina but you NEED that Hit and Expertise more than you need Haste+Mastery. Once your Hit+Expertise can reach 7.5% and 15%, respectively, without the need of the Hit+Expertise weapon then I would suggest going back to your original weapon. Do upgrade the Hit+Expertise weapon as soon as you can after getting the trinket (assuming of course no ToT weapon drops).



Stamina isn't much an issue for you since you're running with a Protection Paladin. I would maximize your DPS/RPS as much as possible.

Allright, that does make sense as well.

How does me having a prot paladin change my need for stamina? o.o

[Trubo]

Allright, that does make sense as well.

How does me having a prot paladin change my need for stamina? o.o

Paladins are better at mitigation and survival due to things like Blessing of Protection, their Mastery, Shield of the Righteousness and self-healing. As such your paladin tank should be main tanking bosses like Horridon who have abilities that can be trivialized by Protection Paladin abilities. Every normal fight that actually requires two tanks doesn't require a Guardian to have an obscene amount of health beyond what is available from gear naturally 510+.

[Viromand]

Paladins are better at mitigation and survival due to things like Blessing of Protection, their Mastery, Shield of the Righteousness and self-healing. As such your paladin tank should be main tanking bosses like Horridon who have abilities that can be trivialized by Protection Paladin abilities. Every normal fight that actually requires two tanks doesn't require a Guardian to have an obscene amount of health beyond what is available from gear naturally 510+.

WTF? You dont need alot of hp as a druid to tank horridon. Paladins or any other tank says nothing on how much Stamina you need.

Sure paladins are great tanks for horridon but druids materry also buffs their mitigation and so does SD. YOu dont even need Stamina on horridn HC.

Allright, that does make sense as well.

How does me having a prot paladin change my need for stamina? o.o

The only reason to gem stamina is if your healers have trouble keeping you alive or you find it more comforting to have a bit more hp.

Due to high selfhealing and absorbs from T&C you dont need that much HP.

An example:

If you take 1million dmg over 10s, you would need 1million and 1 hp to survive without a heal from healers.
So if you use T&C wisely lets say you absorb 200k, so you would only need 800k and 1 hp to survive.
now you add SD to that lets say you take 200k less dmg from dodges. so you are now at 600k and 1hp to survive.
Now with FR you maybe able to get down to 500k dmg taken over sec and survive if you only have 500k and 1 hp.

Thats how you used to figure out how much HP you need pre MOP. but like in my example the current system you can survive longer the more rage you have, and with the current dmg taken from bosses the HP gained from gear alone is enough, if you have good rage management.

So if you choose what to gem for is not what kind of tank you have infact its how confident you are surviving X dmg in Ys without external heals while using SD/FR/T&C.

And with current gear you can go alteast 5/13hc without gemming/enchanting Stamina. Doenst matter if you are MT or OT.

[Aùssa02]

Ah, right.

Well, thank you for the advice

[Arielle]

Start by getting Hit/Exp caps then going Crit. You can move your Hit/Exp levels down afterwards if you feel comfortable doing so (for some reason).

[Aùssa02]

So if you choose what to gem for is not what kind of tank you have infact its how confident you are surviving X dmg in Ys without external heals while using SD/FR/T&C.

And with current gear you can go alteast 5/13hc without gemming/enchanting Stamina. Doenst matter if you are MT or OT.

I feel quite confident in my own and my healers ability to keep me alive, but it's been a running debate between me and my paladin tank if I have enough stamina - But you've convinced me that I don't need to worry about it then ^^

Just a quick question more though.. How about meta gems? should I get the one that gives stam/armor or the one with agi/crit dmg.
And legendary meta, which one should I choose there?

[Arielle]

Just a quick question more though.. How about meta gems? should I get the one that gives stam/armor or the one with agi/crit dmg.
And legendary meta, which one should I choose there?

DPS Metas.

[Aùssa02]

DPS Metas.

Im gonna swallow a big "I was wrong" because of earlier arguments now .____.'
Thanks though!

[Trubo]

WTF? You dont need alot of hp as a druid to tank horridon. Paladins or any other tank says nothing on how much Stamina you need.

Sure paladins are great tanks for horridon but druids materry also buffs their mitigation and so does SD. YOu dont even need Stamina on horridn HC.

Don't know what got you all riled up; I never said you need an obscene amount of stamina such that it requires gems and such. Was merely pointing out that with the toolkit a Protection Paladin has there's little to no reason to ever do a tank swap on Horridon as Guardian unless the Paladin's BoP is on cooldown.

As for Druid Mastery, all it does is increase Armor. Arielle could give you the numbers of how much armor he gained before and after the Mastery buff but I don't recall it being more than a 5%-10% increase to effective armor, which is nothing for those hard hitting abilities like Triple Puncture. Plus there's the fact that Armor DRs and caps at 75% physical damage reduction. I'd take Cataclysm's Bear Form Mastery any day over what Guardian currently has.

An example:

If you take 1million dmg over 10s, you would need 1million and 1 hp to survive without a heal from healers.
So if you use T&C wisely lets say you absorb 200k, so you would only need 800k and 1 hp to survive.
now you add SD to that lets say you take 200k less dmg from dodges. so you are now at 600k and 1hp to survive.
Now with FR you maybe able to get down to 500k dmg taken over sec and survive if you only have 500k and 1 hp.

T&C doesn't do much for those heavy burst tank damage moments unless RNG smiled upon you to get a 200k+ absorb, such as Triple Puncture followed by Horridon's melee hit 0.2 seconds later.