Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    What are Alliance and Horde populations like (Lore-wise)

    I'm curious because if you take into account the number of Horde and Alliance members that have died during the time span from the first war to present (Think of the Third war). If you really think about it the birth rate would have to be insane to sustain the losses that the scourge and any other conflict has dealt to the Alliance and the Horde.

    Now let's take a look at the approximated numbers from WOWWIKI
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Horde 292.100 Members
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Alliance 800.000 Members

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Stormwind_City 200.000
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Orgrimmar 14.000

    These numbers are extraordinarily low and unrealistic (These numbers take into account EVERY minor group in the both factions). What is also curious to me is the fact that assuming that both the factions are centered around the cast system (?) a very high number of the populace serves in the military government.

    I might be thinking about this WAY to much, but this has been bothering me for a VERY loong time.

    I'm opening this thread to start a discussion thread about the population numbers of both factions.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,674
    We don't know, blizzard gave no canon sources for population numbers.

    Though most races had some incredible disaster, endangering them.

    The gnomes 80% dead
    Blood elves 90% dead
    Tauren tribes lost many to the centaurs
    Night elves waged costly wars in the past
    Humans were decimated by the Scourge
    Orcs lost most of their people only the young and the old remain, and many young will soon die during the siege of Orgrimmar
    Draenei slaughtered by the orcs
    Dwarves are stable
    Worgen are Gilneans, their kingdom was ravaged by Worgen and the forsaken slaughtered many of them.
    Goblins more or less stable even though their Island blew up
    Pandaren ,playable ones are a few dozen individuals at most.
    Darkspear trolls were always a small tribe and were almost wiped out by the sea witch.
    Forsaken were constantly dwindling, they only recently started replenishing their numbers.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-06-22 at 07:43 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  3. #3
    We dont know becouse there isnt a canon source to give us that information.

    Also, you are only counting the losses but think all the races and factions that are joining the Alliance and the Horde in each expansion, and I am not only talking about the playable races.

  4. #4
    [Ratio] I could justify those numbers' accuracy (with a bit of lenience) by considering the number of native civilians in the Alliance would naturally be greater than the Horde's, which - even when they get native populations like elves and undead humans of Lordaeron - are only getting splinters of much larger (or deceased/still mindless zombie) nations. The only thing that would make the Horde's numbers even would be something like if every troll nation joined the Horde.

    I think we're supposed to assume that many more humans fled northern Eastern Kingdoms, and the dwarf clans (at least the Dark Iron now) add significantly.

    [Overall: I'll take it. Azeroth's seen some shit.]
    Last edited by Confirm Deny; 2013-06-22 at 07:45 PM.
    It wasn't long ago / I was just like you / And now I think I'm sick and I wanna go home!
    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    what if SEARING WOLVES? The possibilities?!!?

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Riot View Post

    I think we're supposed to assume that many more humans fled northern Eastern Kingdoms, and the dwarf clans (at least the Dark Iron now) add significantly.
    Considering the events of Wc3 I doubt that many managed to escape, there is a mission were you actually round up survivors to slaughter them.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Riot View Post
    [Ratio] I could justify those numbers' accuracy (with a bit of lenience) by considering the number of native civilians in the Alliance would naturally be greater than the Horde's, which - even when they get native populations like elves and undead humans of Lordaeron - are only getting splinters of much larger (or deceased/still mindless zombie) nations. The only thing that would make the Horde's numbers even would be something like if every troll nation joined the Horde.

    I think we're supposed to assume that many more humans fled northern Eastern Kingdoms, and the dwarf clans (at least the Dark Iron now) add significantly.

    [Overall: I'll take it. Azeroth's seen some shit.]
    It's not because this would basically mean that we are all endangered...

  7. #7
    You also have to take into account the number of horde and alliance citizens that go off and join organizations like the cult of the damned, argent crusade, defias, etc. It almost seems like a large portion of each population is not necessarily with the alliance or horde.

  8. #8
    Seriously thought this would mean that there are 200.000 Alliance Humans at most (REALLY?).

    If I were to say how many Alliance Humans and Horde Orcs there were.

    I would say

    2.000.000 Alliance Humans
    800.000 Horde Orcs

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 08:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeseye0 View Post
    You also have to take into account the number of horde and alliance citizens that go off and join organizations like the cult of the damned, argent crusade, defias, etc. It almost seems like a large portion of each population is not necessarily with the alliance or horde.
    Lore-wise if only a 1000 people defected to the each of those it would still be a HUGE hit.

  9. #9
    I'm familiar with Arthas and Sylvanas' campaigns in The Frozen Throne in particular, but just in WoW in Northern Lordaeron, pre-Cataclysm there are
    1) The Scarlet Monastery and forces in Tirisfal (which are still going apparently)
    2) Dalaran mages and Pyrewood Village humans in Silverpine - albeit they were soon worgen, but there were still noticeable humans in WC3's Night Elf campaign in Lordaeron
    3) Settlements (except what was mostly just Tarren Mill) in Hillsbrad. Hell, that even included a dwarf fortress.
    4) Bandits all over Alterac
    5) Light's Hope Chapel in Eastern Plaguelands and Scarlet forces in both Plaguelands.
    6) Refugees and Stormgarde survivors in Arathi Highlands

    I certainly wouldn't be surprised if all of those forces combined could comprise up to a third of the humans in the north. Although it's a dubious claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arent View Post
    It's not because this would basically mean that we are all endangered...
    You are imposing real-world measurements upon a fictional realm, but yes: many populations have been nearly wiped out in Azeroth numerous times. Not much wrong with that in that in regard to the game.

    If you are seeking consistency, it would take more than a 10 minute discussion on this forum to compile the facts. Maybe someone will look into it.
    Last edited by Confirm Deny; 2013-06-22 at 08:19 PM.
    It wasn't long ago / I was just like you / And now I think I'm sick and I wanna go home!
    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    what if SEARING WOLVES? The possibilities?!!?

  10. #10
    Well the problem is the WoW in game world does not give a good example of true size. It takes several weeks to cross the great sea from Eastern Kingdoms to Kalimdor, and it took Lothar and the survivors of Stormwind a few days to sail to Lorderon. Also, it is know that the Scourge had millions of undead in their ranks, each of those dead came from a human who died from the plague or were manually raised. Until Blizzard releases something that tells us how big everything is, and how many people live there we will have no way of knowing the numbers for sure.

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalzel View Post
    Well the problem is the WoW in game world does not give a good example of true size. It takes several weeks to cross the great sea from Eastern Kingdoms to Kalimdor, and it took Lothar and the survivors of Stormwind a few days to sail to Lorderon. Also, it is know that the Scourge had millions of undead in their ranks, each of those dead came from a human who died from the plague or were manually raised. Until Blizzard releases something that tells us how big everything is, and how many people live there we will have no way of knowing the numbers for sure.
    I doubt they ever will, like this they can continue to progress lore without restraints, simply because so many people die during the events that transpire, there is always a big baddy threatening the world or a world war and a big baddy. If they ever set a number, sooner or later it would limit them on how many people can actually die.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  12. #12
    High Overlord Mshadowz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    136
    In game, the populations are obviously very skewed, as NPCs respawn, several extremely popular race choices (blood elves, Night elves) are supposed to be close to extinction, and so we don't get a good idea of population through the game.

    I'd say, from my knowledge of lore and Azeroth, the Pandaren are the most populated race in the world at the moment, as they have not only been away from the conflicts of the rest of the world, but they have lived in relative peace for almost 10 000 years. The second most populace race in the world could be Goblins, as the semi-cannon RPG books describe them as having a short gestation period, which has yet to be proven false, since there are a lot of those little green bastards.

    As for Humans and Orcs, the two "main" races of the Warcraft franchise, well, we get mixed messages with them. For starters, the Orcs now inhabit two worlds, with many villages still existing in Outland, and who knows how many Orcs now make Azeroth their home. Stormwind, Dalaran and Kul'Tiras (I'm going on the fact we have little to no idea if Kul'Tiras is still standing, but since we haven't heard otherwise) are the only human nations left, with Dalaran not fully human anymore (not that it really ever was), and Kul'Tiras MIA. One kingdom of the original seven. The human race has been hunted down and beaten since they first began their rise to power. In recent years those killings have only increased, with the 1st, 2nd, third wars, War in northrend, Cataclysm, and now MoP. Humans and orcs are the two races that have probably suffered the most casualties in these conflicts. Orcs would realistically have less of a population than humans, as they are not native to the world, but with the amount of dead humans at this point, it could be closer to even.

    The lowest populations would probably be shared among the Gnomes, Night elves, Blood elves, Dreanei, High elves, and Darkspears. They all have been victims of genocide, purging and more, and races like the elves and Dreanei are known to not breed very regularly.

    Worgen and Forsaken can both be considered "infected" humans, but since they are considered their own "Race" in pretty much every source ever, that's how they will be treated. While the forsaken would have probably been one of the highest populations at the start of WoW, the recent wars have beaten them down to a much lower rate. The worgen were never prevalent to begin with, and now are probably less so. However, with their conflict in Northern Eastern kingdoms, the races have been practically "farming" off humans, with the forsaken raising them and the worgen infecting them to prevent them from being raised. While the Worgen probably have a much lower population than the forsaken, they would be closer now then they were at the start of the Gilnean operation.

    Dwarves have not really shown any racial decline, or rise, so I'm just going to assume they are higher than most races, but not ridiculously high. Tauren are definitely on the lower scale, but probably not near the bottom anymore. Mulgore is a well protected land, with the first major loss to the Tauren race taking place at the start of Cataclysm.

  13. #13
    I think Blizzard would like to overlook some of the claims they made regarding population in Warcraft 3 and novels. They intended to show that many of these races took heavy losses which led them to joining the horde or alliance, but in general their populations are stable and number enough to fight full out wars. It wouldn't make much sense for Blood Elves and High Elves to be killing each other in Dalaran and Thunder Isle if they barely had enough people to protect their homeland. I imagine at some point the cannon story will end up stating that many of the current playable races now have stable growing populations.

  14. #14
    High Overlord menulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    you know james? no? wel 20km to the north of his house and you'll run into my house, cant miss it
    Posts
    174
    what people forget though, yea there are ALLOT more humans, but EVERY orc is a trained warrior (think sparta).
    where as maybe 20% of the humans is. and lore wise every orc warrior is worth 3-4 humans in straight combat, and tauren perhaps double that.
    this is not counting "hero characters" just your normal grunt/footmen

    so the actualy fighting numbers are probably very similar.
    "I am the King of Rome, and above grammar."

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalzel View Post
    Well the problem is the WoW in game world does not give a good example of true size. It takes several weeks to cross the great sea from Eastern Kingdoms to Kalimdor, and it took Lothar and the survivors of Stormwind a few days to sail to Lorderon. Also, it is know that the Scourge had millions of undead in their ranks, each of those dead came from a human who died from the plague or were manually raised. Until Blizzard releases something that tells us how big everything is, and how many people live there we will have no way of knowing the numbers for sure.
    Yeah this is how I thought about it. If you were to actually count all the houses in Stormwind I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to house all the guards.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-23 at 10:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by menulo View Post
    what people forget though, yea there are ALLOT more humans, but EVERY orc is a trained warrior (think sparta).
    where as maybe 20% of the humans is. and lore wise every orc warrior is worth 3-4 humans in straight combat, and tauren perhaps double that.
    this is not counting "hero characters" just your normal grunt/footmen

    so the actualy fighting numbers are probably very similar.
    Not everybody in Sparta was a trained warrior... Not even close.

  16. #16
    Blizzard pulls out population when ever the story dictates it

    Unless nearly everyone on azeroth breeds like jack rabbits and the maturation rate is nothing like a normal human being then the total population on azeroth should be at least a few thousand seeing how many have died in the hundreds of wars that have raged since the orcs landed.

  17. #17
    It always pleases me to see that the population of Stormwind alone rivals that of the entire horde
    Wrath baby and proud of it

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by FragmentedFaith View Post
    It always pleases me to see that the population of Stormwind alone rivals that of the entire horde
    Yet you still cant beat us

    What does that say i wonder hmmm

  19. #19
    This is one of my issues with the current rebellion. Considering the entire Orc population now comes from a few small groups of orcs that came through the dark portal, their numbers already should be ridiculously low, even without a good portion of them being killed in SoO. There really can't be that many left now.

    that said, a handful or Goblins survived on that boat crash and now they're bloody everywhere with towns and everything. Talk about breeding like rabbits.

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,674
    Quote Originally Posted by FragmentedFaith View Post
    It always pleases me to see that the population of Stormwind alone rivals that of the entire horde
    Too bad that population number is non canon.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •