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  1. #1

    The whole Garrosh scenario still doesn't make any sense to me.

    Sorry but I'm still not sold on this tragic and stupid bit of lore that Blizzard have put together for mists finale. I don't really care that Garrosh has to die, I thought he had amazing potential but Blizzard have twisted and turned so many times that the character has become an abomination. Not for the evil deeds he's done but the actual character and transition from what he was to what he is, has quite frankly been laughable and it seems like a mercy killing at this point. Sure make him go bad, knock yourself out but atleast make it half interesting and believable.

    From the beginning of Mists including Tides of War we've been force fed utter random evil shit from Garrosh which was supposed to make us all angsty and mad leaving us waiting with baited breath for the release of siege so we can bring him down. But when it's done so poorly and obviously it just makes me want to root for the guy. When I look at Garrosh and what he was in Cataclysm which was in my opinion, open to scrutiny of course the very definition of an orc Warchief. Strong, a bit rash, proud, violent but measured and fair to what he is now it's just silly. He allowed council from the other races and respected their opinion he even allowed a forsaken contingent in Grommash Hold the race he detested the most in his ranks. He also openly respected the Taurens strength and their value to the Horde. So where did this vision of an orc only Horde come from? Blizzards arse is where, along with most things nowadays.

    But yeah let's kill him like I said the character is a joke now, this was not Blizzards intention for Garrosh when they conjured him up. The pattern of his story shows that Blizzard didn't actually know what they wanted with him and they've decided to cut their arrears and be done with him and it's for the best at this point. So there's my semi rant, I'm surely not the only one dissatisfied with this last boss to an expansion. Garrosh doesn't have the same appeal as Illidian, Lich King or Deathwing and the overall handling has just been shit. Oh wait let's not mention Deathwing, that final patch for Cataclysm... dear god, this one can't be worse.. can it?

  2. #2
    Over 9000! Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    I agree, to me it felt like Garrosh had a complete u turn in the tides of war...he was warchief in cataclysm and he never set a foot wrong (while being warchief) he even scolded Sylvanus for using a plague and raising humans to aid her...do you really think the mop Garrosh would refuse an undead legion of human fodder at his command/ biological weapons? >.<

    Also...Trassk will be here shortly to say your opinion is complete rubbish -.-
    Last edited by Frozenbeef; 2013-06-24 at 07:15 PM.

  3. #3
    The reason is that 90% of players didn't like this character as a leader from the get-go, so if Blizzard had to can him anyway, might as well be big style.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorine View Post
    The reason is that 90% of players didn't like this character as a leader from the get-go, so if Blizzard had to can him anyway, might as well be big style.
    Its because they didnt care, making Garrosh warchief would have been like making Lor'Themar warchief. Only now that they've built up Lor'Themars character do people appreciate him. Before that no one knew who the hell he was. The same should have been done with Garrosh instead of making him U turn and suddenly turn evil because they couldnt write a good character to begin with.

  5. #5
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Garrosh systematicly turned all the development that happened with the orcs since WC3 into shit, all he did was make the story of the orcs take three steps back, and now wow's going to need something to make the orcs come three steps forward again.
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  6. #6
    Dreadlord Rivyr's Avatar
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    I think it could have used a little more explaining in how his since of duty/honor allowed him to justify his actions. In wrath he was an abrasive but honor bound orc and I can see he holds onto that quality still but I am not sure where the racism in his behavior developed nor his warped since of honor that lets him live with his actions.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    and now wow's going to need something to make the orcs come three steps forward again.
    Maybe we'll find Mankrik's wife.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Rivyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Garrosh systematicly turned all the development that happened with the orcs since WC3 into shit, all he did was make the story of the orcs take three steps back, and now wow's going to need something to make the orcs come three steps forward again.
    Shit can the gohel (Or how ever you spell it) nonsense and bring back Thrall.

  9. #9
    Why do people keep saying Blizzard did a U turn on Garrosh? He's always been like this, only now he's got power to live out his ego-fueled fantasies.

    Times he's acted decently have been the exception, not the rule. And each time its clear he was only 'decent' because it was to his advantage to act that way.

    To break it down for those who haven't been paying attention:

    TBC - Chieftan of a small clan with limited power. Depressed and grumpy, refusing to lift a finger to help his people (leaving his second in command to do all the work behind his back).
    Wrath - Overlord of a major offensive. Angry and boastful, refusing to lift a finger to help and instead just demand results (leaving his second in command to do all the work behind his back).
    Cata - Temporary Warchief of the Horde. Angry and boastful, refusing to lift a finger to help the other races with their troubles and just demands results while imposing limitations on their tactics. Has anyone who disagrees with him either killed or thrown out of the city.
    MoP - Self-declared Warchief of the 'True Horde'. Angry, boastful and power-crazed. Demands results even more unreasonably, slaughtering anyone who even hints at disagreement and placing multiple towns and cities under martial law. Demands more and more outrageous superweapons to use against whoever he damn well pleases.

    Notice the progression? If not, then... Well, whatever I suppose. He's dead and shamed, and anyone still a fan of him is going to be mighty disappointed.

  10. #10
    Not sure how much character developement they can really do in a MMO, especially just 1 faction guy. The story is fairly simple, no major surprises, we're not going to get a red wedding scene in WoW if that's what you're expecting. Both Varian and Garrosh showed they could be hot headed monkeys. This Xpac Varian gets to wise up and see things in a broader scope. Garrosh goes down the the path we saw coming last Xpac.

    I'm not sure how you can see Blizzard didn't know what to do with him. The past the Blizzcon 2 years ago they hinted at this possible path. I was rooting for him to break the cycle, but they choose to not let him break the cycle and show that the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Asheriah's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    Too drastic of a change to be innocent.

    We don't believe in your Horde or your Alliance. We only believe in undeath.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    I think it could have used a little more explaining in how his since of duty/honor allowed him to justify his actions. In wrath he was an abrasive but honor bound orc and I can see he holds onto that quality still but I am not sure where the racism in his behavior developed nor his warped since of honor that lets him live with his actions.
    He wasn't honour bound at all during Wrath. He was contemplating attacking his allies (of necessity, admittedly), willfully sending unacceptably pathetic amounts of reinforcements to critical fronts, disrespected his own commander in chief in front of witnesses from the Horde, Alliance and neutral factions on multiple occasions and attacked the leader of the Alliance on neutral ground during a critical meeting.

    He doesn't understand the first thing about honour!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    Maybe we'll find Mankrik's wife.
    No Mankrik's wife and Gamon are married now. They will deliver the kill shot to Garrosh. They will then build a basic campfire and proclaim it to be the new warchief.

  14. #14
    He's an orc that isn't thrall being an orc that isn't thrall, so clearly he must die. Surprise, when you get an orc that actually acts like an orc and you give it access to magical artifacts and goblin technology it goes a bit nuts. For once we have an actually orc in WoW, and so clearly he must be killed off. :P

    Meanwhile we have the king of stormwind who is, or was, angsty because he was subjected to the things that his people subjected orcs to and has a massive hate-on for orcs, but that's totally cool.

    I play Alliance and I'm really really hoping that if not in SoO soon after they kill off Varian as well.

  15. #15
    Over 9000! Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    I play Alliance and I'm really really hoping that if not in SoO soon after they kill off Varian as well.
    Having their leader die in org sure would cause the alliance to desert the city rather than capture it from the horde :P

  16. #16
    Final WotLK patch completely destroyed all the awesome lore around the Lich King (there must always be a LK, Arthas was holding the scourge in check, bla bla bla Tirion sucks, bla bla bla)

    Final Cata patch (and a lot of the lore before that patch) cemented Deathwing as a demented dragon who only knows the words: "twilight. end. world. destroy." instead of the cunning mastermind he was when he tricked the other dragonflights into creating the demonsoul which they wouldn;t be able to destroy.

    Final Patch MoP (and some lore events prior to this) once again make drastic changes to Garrosh' character. He went from emo weeping baby to gratefull advisor, to arrogant advisor, to somewhat competent warchief to stupid warchief, to decent warchief, to insane warchief and now bat**** crazy lunatic!

    Can't wait to see the final patches from the Azshara and Sargeras expansions. :S




    p.s. However I must say, I am glad to kill off Garrosh now...before he becomes something worse (not morally worse, but characterwise)
    Signature infractions suck especially when they are just about the size of TEXT! WTB token limit!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post

    I play Alliance and I'm really really hoping that if not in SoO soon after they kill off Varian as well.
    Why ? Because it's cool to hate on Varian still ? The man has made a fairly drastic change over this Xpac. If Garrosh could have went half as far as Varian did, we wouldn't need to invade Org

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Garrosh systematicly turned all the development that happened with the orcs since WC3 into shit, all he did was make the story of the orcs take three steps back, and now wow's going to need something to make the orcs come three steps forward again.
    Makes you wonder why Blizzard bothered with the whole MoP horde story, doesn't it?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Why do people keep saying Blizzard did a U turn on Garrosh? He's always been like this, only now he's got power to live out his ego-fueled fantasies.
    Garrosh might of expelled all the non-orcs out of the city in Cata but he wasnt going around doing summary executions on people who disagreed with him. U-turn might be the wrong word for it but there was definitely a huge leap from the warmonger he was in Cata to the straight up evil bastard that he currently is. Hence the OP's point. Before SoO was announced I thought, worst case scenario this guy incites a rebellion and get overthrown. I cant imagine anyone could have predicted that Garrosh would become an orc version of Arthas.

  20. #20
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    From a Writer's POV, Garrosh's turn for the worst makes total sense. I present the following:

    When Garrosh was first introduced he was a man without a purpose, plagued by the sins of his father. Fear, doubt, anger, hatred, violence, and despair were all bottled up into the young little Maghar Orc's head.

    Hope then came along and liberated Garrosh from all of this negativity. Now filled with a newfound pride, he didn't just want to make his long past father proud; no, he also wanted to prove to the Horde he too lived up to the name "Hellscream".

    As the Northrend campaign came and went, Garrosh achieved leaderships skills along with the vigor needed to inspire his troops. Thrall, thinking Garrosh now had enough experience (and I think the whole fact he was a Hellscream), gave the mantel to an orc who was still malleable.

    Observing the course of the Cataclysm Garrosh truly started to achieve the characters of a true leader. In Stonetalon Mountains he achieved a lesson in mercy. In the campaign to the Twilight Highlands he learnt how to properly negotiate.

    Within the books after the plights of the Cataclysm, Garrosh was being barraged with idea after idea. Not just that, but ever since he was first introduced it's been fairly obvious that doubt has been his largest issue.

    Garrosh doubts he will live up to the Hellscream name and because of that his Pride shadows over it.

    Going into Mists, Garrosh has literally been thrown into the maw of madness. His own negative emotions are what drove him down this path.

    I think Blizzard cleverly had the Sha's embodiment be Fear, Doubt, etc. because these are ALL emotions that have been in Garrosh ever since we first met him.

    It's well done story telling.

    The seeds for his descent were planted when he was first introduced.

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