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  1. #1
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Taran Zhu: Justified Hatred

    A few weeks ago there was a big conversation about Taran Zhu and his actions in 5.3. Particularly his threats toward the Horde and whether or not he actually could have accomplished what he threatened. So I decided to make a video exploring those possibilities with as logical of an eye as possible. I also fully cover Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan's history for those that are curious:



    I specifically note two key arguments I've heard from people who believe Taran Zhu is blowing smoke:

    a.) Taran Zhu’s hatred of the Horde is irrational because the Horde, along with the Alliance, helped Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan deal with the various threats on Pandaria that they were unable to deal with themselves.

    b.) If Taran Zhu did decide to try and forcibly remove the Horde from their Shrine, they would be unable to, and the Shrine’s members would crush them.

    This is one of the few cases where me answering it in the thread would take longer than to just watch the video, so for those that are curious, you can find it there. I'm curious as to everybody else's opinions of Taran Zhu and whether or not you want to see more of them in 5.4, as we really haven't seen if they are involved or not yet. Most likely if they are, it will be in the Vale section. Although I think it'd be totally badass to see the Shado-Pan decide to head to Orgrimmar to see what is going on there.

  2. #2
    Epic! Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    This is one of the few cases where me answering it in the thread would take longer than to just watch the video, so for those that are curious, you can find it there. I'm curious as to everybody else's opinions of Taran Zhu and whether or not you want to see more of them in 5.4, as we really haven't seen if they are involved or not yet. Most likely if they are, it will be in the Vale section. Although I think it'd be totally badass to see the Shado-Pan decide to head to Orgrimmar to see what is going on there.
    The Horde would stand no chance against the Shado-Pan. Most of its forces are busy preparing to invade Ogrimmar.

  3. #3
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    The Horde would stand no chance against the Shado-Pan. Most of its forces are busy preparing to invade Ogrimmar.
    Yup, that is part of my answer. In addition, the Shado-Pan seem to be given a really bad rap because they couldn't kill literally 100% of the enemies they've trained to stand against all at once. It would be like if the Naga, the Scourge, the Old Gods, and the Burning Legion attacked us all at once and we weren't able to beat them. Its not because we're weak, its because nobody could anticipate that shit.

  4. #4
    His hate is justified, but his threats are empty. His forces are decimated by assaults from multiple fronts and many prominent shado-pan members were corrupted and slaughtered. Logic dictates that pandaren military is ireversably broken.

    Unfortunately, this is Blizzard. They just pull more nameless mooks out of the spawning pools.
    Last edited by Verdugo; 2013-06-22 at 10:31 PM.
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  5. #5
    Going to put this out there: I didn't watch the video. It's a tad too long for me to listen to the entire thing, though I'll comment on the two arguments you pointed out that others frequently give.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    a.) Taran Zhu’s hatred of the Horde is irrational because the Horde, along with the Alliance, helped Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan deal with the various threats on Pandaria that they were unable to deal with themselves.
    The issue here, I think, is that some of those threats were directly triggered by the arrival of the Horde and the Alliance. The sha weren't as active prior to their appearance, and at least the Sha of Doubt was unleashed due to a conflict between the two factions. Taran Zhu is (not as much now as in 5.0) still rather unfair in his assumptions about outsiders (and written to be that way, no doubt), but when two foreign armies suddenly land on your shores and immediately begin leaving chaos in their wake, it's not entirely irrational to see them in a negative light.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    b.) If Taran Zhu did decide to try and forcibly remove the Horde from their Shrine, they would be unable to, and the Shrine’s members would crush them.
    That's a bit difficult to say. Quests will always give the impression of those you're working for being rather weak, as it comes off as you doing all the work. However, player characters aside, with the Shado-Pan essentially being Pandaria's only military force, and the Shrine of Two Moons supposedly being a bastion for refugees with the Sunwalkers acting as its guards, I think they'd probably have the advantage.

  6. #6
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    ...those aren't even my arguments. I was addressing those arguments which others have given, and I clearly disagree with them.

    By the way, there's even an option to skip to that very part in the video lol.

    Not to sound snarky, but you could at least read the actual thread instead of what you think I said :P

  7. #7
    The Patient NecroGangster's Avatar
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    Well I guess he kind of understood that the Horde can't be blames for Garrosh's actions just because he's the leader. It would be cool if the Shado-Pan joined the Alliance and the Horde rebels against Garrosh though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    The Horde would stand no chance against the Shado-Pan. Most of its forces are busy preparing to invade Ogrimmar.
    Not only that but most most of the people from both shrines are actually just refugees from Kun-lai, and I'm sure they wouldn't join the few Horde against the Shado-pan.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    ...those aren't even my arguments. I was addressing the arguments of other people that I disagree with.
    Edited shortly before you posted this to correct that. Those are still my responses regardless, and I'll leave them there as they pertain to your topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    By the way, there's even an option to skip to that very part in the video lol.

    Not to sound snarky, but you could at least read the actual thread instead of what you think I said :P
    Didn't click on the video. Didn't see it. Still not going to watch it. Sorry.
    Last edited by StationaryHawk; 2013-06-22 at 10:36 PM.

  9. #9
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post

    Didn't click on the video. Didn't see it. Still not going to watch it. Sorry.
    Ok then. I'm not sure how you judged the length of it then, but whatever lol. Time too valuable I suppose.

    Well I guess he kind of understood that the Horde can't be blames for Garrosh's actions just because he's the leader. It would be cool if the Shado-Pan joined the Alliance and the Horde rebels against Garrosh though.
    Wouldn't mind seeing them as their own faction not sided with either. Similar to the Klaxxi Paragons but our ally instead of enemy.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Ok then. I'm not sure how you judged the length of it then, but thank you.
    You inserted it into your post. I don't have to click it to see it's length, as the timer's at the bottom.

  11. #11
    The Patient NecroGangster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Yup, that is part of my answer. In addition, the Shado-Pan seem to be given a really bad rap because they couldn't kill literally 100% of the enemies they've trained to stand against all at once. It would be like if the Naga, the Scourge, the Old Gods, and the Burning Legion attacked us all at once and we weren't able to beat them. Its not because we're weak, its because nobody could anticipate that shit.
    Of course. Not only that but they are trained to deal with the ocasional sha, not the Sha Primes who are supposed to be imprisioned.

    They are trained to defend agains the mantid 1000 years cicle, but they weren't expecting it to happen 100 years earlier... during a super major sha outbreak... with the second most powerfull sha impowering the mantid.

    And ofcourse they were trained to take care of the rarely seen mogus who came out of hiding now and then while the mogu tribes were mostly busy fighting themselves, not a full fledge mogu empire, with all the tribes united, plus what I think is the full force or at least great part of the Zandalari backing them up and on top of that the god like Thunder King leading them. During the invasion of the sha powered mantid. While dealing with the Sha Primes.

    So yeah, it's not that they are weak.

  12. #12
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Regardless of if its my video or not, the act of commenting on something without context then refusing to watch the small part talked about as if its so long is a bit silly. I wouldn't recommend participating in a thread with a video then? This is wildly off topic, though, so I'm done.

    Of course. Not only that but they are trained to deal with the ocasional sha, not the Sha Primes who are supposed to be imprisioned.

    They are trained to defend agains the mantid 1000 years cicle, but they weren't expecting it to happen 100 years earlier... during a super major sha outbreak... with the second most powerfull sha impowering the mantid.

    And ofcourse they were trained to take care of the rarely seen mogus who came out of hiding now and then while the mogu tribes were mostly busy fighting themselves, not a full fledge mogu empire, with all the tribes united, plus what I think is the full force or at least great part of the Zandalari backing them up and on top of that the god like Thunder King leading them. During the invasion of the sha powered mantid. While dealing with the Sha Primes.

    So yeah, it's not that they are weak.
    Well we can see that as well in the new Vol'jin book (I got an advanced copy to review) that they are actually very powerful even with their small numbers. Taran Zhu on his own kicks some serious ass in the final battle of that book. I'll probably actually end up making a review of it for here (And for my youtube subs) when it official comes out, since I can't exactly release spoiler information before the release date without a bit of legal trouble or blacklisting myself from further review copies.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-06-22 at 10:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Regardless of if its my video or not, the act of commenting on something without context then refusing to watch the small part talked about as if its so long is a bit silly. I wouldn't recommend participating in a thread with a video then? This is wildly off topic, though, so I'm done.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    This is one of the few cases where me answering it in the thread would take longer than to just watch the video, so for those that are curious, you can find it there. I'm curious as to everybody else's opinions of Taran Zhu
    Maybe don't give people the choice to view it, and also ask for their opinions unrelated to yours, if you don't want them. I don't know how I offended you by accidentally misreading a small portion of your post (and correcting it afterwards) but still providing an opinion related to the topic you wish to discuss, but it's no reason to get so upset.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Xisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Edited shortly before you posted this to correct that. Those are still my responses regardless, and I'll leave them there as they pertain to your topic.

    Didn't click on the video. Didn't see it. Still not going to watch it. Sorry.
    lol

    "I didn't listen to what you had to say or hear your argument, but he's my rebuttal of what I think you're going to say".

    Go millennials!

  15. #15
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Maybe don't give people the choice to view it, and also ask for their opinions unrelated to yours, if you don't want them. I don't know how I offended you by accidentally misreading a small portion of your post (and correcting it afterwards) but still providing an opinion related to the topic you wish to discuss, but it's no reason to get so upset.
    Well I lied since I'm responding to you. It's a discussion thread with the video as an integral part of it. I only said the bit about not giving my own opinion here because the other videos I've made topics about and then posted on here could be summed up pretty easily in text. This time I didn't feel as if I could.

    ANYHOW, I'm not offended at all lol, I was more chuckling at the silliness of the idea. Nothing to see here folks, lets all move on.

  16. #16
    The Patient NecroGangster's Avatar
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    What I'd like to see is that now that Pandaria is opened to the world and both alliance and horde have based on the continent, which one with it's own defenders, and the fact that the threats that the Shado-pan are supposed to deal with are mostly gone, will we in the future see them helping with similar problems around the world? Because now that Pandaria is reconnected to the world whatever afects Azeroth is going to affect it too, like naga, burning legion, Old Gods, etc.

    Also maybe starting to allow other races other than pandaren into their ranks and extend their services to other continents?

    That would be an interested topic for another video. You could give your opinion on how in terms of the lore the current factions and relations between factions should be in the future.

  17. #17
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Hmm, that would be an interesting thing to explore.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NecroGangster View Post
    What I'd like to see is that now that Pandaria is opened to the world and both alliance and horde have based on the continent, which one with it's own defenders, and the fact that the threats that the Shado-pan are supposed to deal with are mostly gone, will we in the future see them helping with similar problems around the world? Because now that Pandaria is reconnected to the world whatever afects Azeroth is going to affect it too, like naga, burning legion, Old Gods, etc.

    Also maybe starting to allow other races other than pandaren into their ranks and extend their services to other continents?

    That would be an interested topic for another video. You could give your opinion on how in terms of the lore the current factions and relations between factions should be in the future.
    Sadly, I expect the Shado-Pan to do the same thing as the Argent Crusade or the Mag'Thar: not matter anymore. Apart from the occasional reputation/achievement farmer

  19. #19
    The Patient NecroGangster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MargrimEU View Post
    Sadly, I expect the Shado-Pan to do the same thing as the Argent Crusade or the Mag'Thar: not matter anymore. Apart from the occasional reputation/achievement farmer
    Well I'm sure that in the end all the factions we've met or will meet will all join together into the Army of the Light.... led by Anduin... and Me'dan wielding Atiesh... with Turalyon as second in command...

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NecroGangster View Post
    What I'd like to see is that now that Pandaria is opened to the world and both alliance and horde have based on the continent, which one with it's own defenders, and the fact that the threats that the Shado-pan are supposed to deal with are mostly gone, will we in the future see them helping with similar problems around the world? Because now that Pandaria is reconnected to the world whatever afects Azeroth is going to affect it too, like naga, burning legion, Old Gods, etc.

    Also maybe starting to allow other races other than pandaren into their ranks and extend their services to other continents?

    That would be an interested topic for another video. You could give your opinion on how in terms of the lore the current factions and relations between factions should be in the future.
    Considering the Pandaren mindset of Isolation and the fact the foreigners screwed up their land badly it is also possible they wall themselves in more or less. Choosing isolation instead of cooperation and banishing foreigners from their land.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

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