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  1. #1

    DnD vs Scourge Strike

    I was under the impression after 5.3 changes that Scourge Strike would do more damage than DnD, but simcraft is still putting DnD at about 10k more DPE than Scourge Strike for me. Am I just screwing something up or is DnD still > Scourge Strike?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyon View Post
    simcraft is still putting DnD at about 10k more DPE than Scourge Strike for me.
    There's your answer. No, literally, you can't go wrong with DPET in simcraft. ScS will only do more DPR than DnD if your weapon is far superior to the rest of your gear or you can't guarantee DnD will be able to tick 11 times.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2013-06-23 at 08:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    There's your answer. No, literally, you can't go wrong with DPET in simcraft. ScS will only do more DPR than DnD if your weapon is severely lacking behind or you can't guarantee DnD will be able to tick 11 times.
    I think you got that backwards, a severely superior weapon should make ScS better than DnD.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyon View Post
    I was under the impression after 5.3 changes that Scourge Strike would do more damage than DnD, but simcraft is still putting DnD at about 10k more DPE than Scourge Strike for me. Am I just screwing something up or is DnD still > Scourge Strike?
    Scourge Strike was never buffed.
    DND typically does more damage than 1 scrouge strike assuming it hits the target for the entire duration.

  7. #7
    That is scary when comparing an aoe spell to a single target spell in a single target situation... wow is scourge strike that bad?

  8. #8
    scourge strike has been extremely weak for a long time. it's a skill you use tons and tons of times though.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    There's your answer. No, literally, you can't go wrong with DPET in simcraft. ScS will only do more DPR than DnD if your weapon is far superior to the rest of your gear or you can't guarantee DnD will be able to tick 11 times.
    DnD no longer ticks 11 times. ScS does more single target. DnD does more with a total of 12 ticks split amongst however many targets. So 2 targets at 6 each, 3 at 4, etc.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Omertocracy View Post
    DnD no longer ticks 11 times. ScS does more single target. DnD does more with a total of 12 ticks split amongst however many targets. So 2 targets at 6 each, 3 at 4, etc.
    So I don't get it. How many ticks DOES DnD do now? You said it'll do 12 ticks, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

    OR

    Will it do 12 ticks in multiple targets and lesser for 1 target? (And how many?)
    Last edited by hermoraunio; 2013-06-24 at 06:56 AM.

  11. #11
    with my current gear
    1 dnd does 52k (4.7k per tick) 11 ticks.
    two targets does ~118k 22 ticks.
    scourge strike does 53k total with 2 diseases, my weapon is higher level than the rest of my gear though so why 1 scourge is slightly better than DND

    this was with no trinket procs (how buff up). My reforging is not great because I stopped raiding like 6 weeks ago.

    the above values were with no extra buffs vs target dummies.

    my damage per execute time via simcraft has dnd at 98k and scourge strike at 88k
    Last edited by bals; 2013-06-24 at 07:36 AM.

  12. #12
    Why didn't blizzard just keep that SS and FS change back in the late 5.3 build? i tested it on the ptr (back then) and i never found it OP or WEAK but it was a decent spell that could keep up with the damage charts.

    But on topic, i believe with a ilvl 510 weapon (502 lfr weapon upgraded and gemmed) and 522 ilvl gear pieces my DnD would pull off more dmg than my SS.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2013-06-24 at 11:47 AM.

  13. #13
    Do you mean why did Blizzard go ahead and screw up everything that was unholy by making ScS a single rune attack? This is the source of UH's schizophrenia. And unless something major changes, our primary strike attack that we must spam to produce our damage will always be threatened to be overshadowed by anyone of our other abilities. Hell, it's one of the reasons Festerblight exists in the first place. Spam Strike will not compete with our (rather oddly buffed) diseases.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Keile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaven View Post
    Do you mean why did Blizzard go ahead and screw up everything that was unholy by making ScS a single rune attack? This is the source of UH's schizophrenia. And unless something major changes, our primary strike attack that we must spam to produce our damage will always be threatened to be overshadowed by anyone of our other abilities. Hell, it's one of the reasons Festerblight exists in the first place. Spam Strike will not compete with our (rather oddly buffed) diseases.
    Pretty sure they did it because the other specs both have a F/U ability (Death Strike, Obliterate) in their arsenal and wanted something "different" so our the unholy dual rune is Festering Strike which is B/F.....basically I think that's where the damage buff should be. ScS should be the unholy equivalent of Heart Strike (except single target) or frosts old blood strike (before they had the passive death runes). Festering Strike should be the heavy hitter that uses two runes (though 2 ScS should do more than 1 FS as incentive to use those death runes).

    So if anything, I think they need to overhaul FS to that it can benefit from the Unholy Mastery (add shadow damage to it, like ScS).

    But that's just my 2 cents.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Pretty sure they did it because the other specs both have a F/U ability (Death Strike, Obliterate) in their arsenal and wanted something "different" so our the unholy dual rune is Festering Strike which is B/F.....basically I think that's where the damage buff should be. ScS should be the unholy equivalent of Heart Strike (except single target) or frosts old blood strike (before they had the passive death runes). Festering Strike should be the heavy hitter that uses two runes (though 2 ScS should do more than 1 FS as incentive to use those death runes).

    So if anything, I think they need to overhaul FS to that it can benefit from the Unholy Mastery (add shadow damage to it, like ScS).

    But that's just my 2 cents.
    But that'd just make the 2 strikes identical, wouldn't it? I'd much rather they did something with crit for DKs, because, let's face it, the only interaction DKs have with crit is 'Oh hey, my ability just dealt double its regular damage!' which is rather uninteresting.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    But that'd just make the 2 strikes identical, wouldn't it? I'd much rather they did something with crit for DKs, because, let's face it, the only interaction DKs have with crit is 'Oh hey, my ability just dealt double its regular damage!' which is rather uninteresting.
    If crit functioned like chaos bolt for locks, it'd make it interesting for frost. If it had a chance to extend DOT timers, or something for UH it'd make it more interesting, but probably a bit too strong.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    If crit functioned like chaos bolt for locks, it'd make it interesting for frost. If it had a chance to extend DOT timers, or something for UH it'd make it more interesting, but probably a bit too strong.
    There are infinite ways they could go about making crit a more interesting stat for DKs: look at Warriors and Enrage, look at Balance Druids and their DoTs, look at both Demo and Destro Warlocks, look at Disc Priests. These are just a few example, the list goes on. Though realistically speaking, this is something they probably wouldn't even look at before 6.0.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    There are infinite ways they could go about making crit a more interesting stat for DKs: look at Warriors and Enrage, look at Balance Druids and their DoTs, look at both Demo and Destro Warlocks, look at Disc Priests. These are just a few example, the list goes on. Though realistically speaking, this is something they probably wouldn't even look at before 6.0.
    While it is cool what crit does for both of those warlock specs you also make it sound like it's their highest priority stat which it isn't. Both demo and destruction stack mastery then haste before crit. However I definitely agree crit needs to do something different for dps Dks.

  19. #19
    They should make the SS shadow portion crit, that would make crit more of a viable stat.

  20. #20
    ^ Crit is our best stat, what are you talking about?

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