Thread: Mm 5.3

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Knyphyn View Post
    I raid 10mans and if we need an interrupt...
    - Mage/Warlock can both interrupt on a 24s cd similar to silencing shot, so if you bring two of those they can alternate for a melee.
    - All shaman can interrupt every 12s, but you probably don't want to assign a healer on that job.
    - Instead of bringing a MM specc it might be a possibility to bring a Gorilla/Moth, capable of interrupting once every 30s.

    Nowadays all tanks can interrupt (paladin, warrior and dk all offer a second, backup interrupt on top of the regular 15s interrupt), this wasn't the case in T11 when we had a hard time on Omnotron of Nefarian because of that.

    ---

    Anyway more ontopic: you can play MM, it's more or less viable (according to sims). But the rotation isn't smoothed out just yet and that's why compared to other speccs it feels somewhat lackluster. Keeping up the steady focus buff isn't fun and you'll cap on focus every so often. Hopefully this will feel better in 5.4 when AS get it's cost increased by 50%.

  2. #22
    High Overlord
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    I've been MM since late Naxx / Ulduar through the good and the bad. I don't get to raid as much as I used to, due to real life issues, but MM has never really struck me as being the Doom and Gloom spec so many people talk about. Now, I'll clarify that we are by no means a cutting edge guild and that I consider myself to be a decent, not great, player, but I tend to keep up pretty well with both BM and SV in single target - AoE is a bit lackluster though. I normally come in 2nd or 3rd DPS in our 10s while having a iLevel 15-20 pts below the top couple of DPS. Is it the best spec? No. But to me (and yes, I do run BM and SV on occasion just for a change every now and then) it's the most fun and engaging spec to play.

    I love the fact that the "rotation" is dynamic. Start the fight with Aimed as your focus dump until 80% and then switch to Arcane. Switch back to Aimed during haste buffs and try not to stack Heroism with Rapid Fire, so you get the most "bang for you buck" in terms of Aimed Shot hard casts throughout the fight. Granted, with the 50% Arcane focus / damage boost I'm not entirely positive it'll still be worth hard casting Aimed Shot outside of the first 20% of a fight. As for Steady Focus, casting Steady Shot in pairs whenever the duration on the 20s buff falls to 3-5, is just a matter of practice. You'll most likely get the hang of it quickly and it wont seem like a "task," just part of your rotation.

    I see that by your signature, you're in a heroic guild and probably much more hardcore than I am in terms of skill and dedication, but in my opinion, there is absolutely no consequence of playing MM for interrupts if needed. The tedious bits that most people complain about with MM, I find fun and engaging, so to each their own. DPSwise, it's not the best, and Hunters aren't in an amazing spot across the board, but in many situations, the extra few thousand DPS that BM or SV would net you won't turn a wipe into a kill - better execution from the raid however, would. I would recommend the EJ thread pointed out not too long ago in this thread. I don't treat EJ like the WoW bible, but it'll absolutely get you started on maximizing your performance.

    Again, I'm not a super hardcore 13/13 Heroic raider, so take my post with a grain of salt. I'm speaking strictly from a personal preference from an occasional raider.

    *Edited for clarification / typo
    Last edited by ATron52; 2013-06-24 at 10:06 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ATron52 View Post
    DPSwise, it's not the best, and Hunters aren't in an amazing spot across the board, but in many situations, the extra few thousand DPS that BM or SV would net you won't turn a wipe into a kill - better execution from the raid however, would
    MM is much more than a few thousand DPS behind. it's normally 50k+ dps behind SV/BM. for example, on jin'rokh 10m normal the #1 BM hunter is 100k DPS ahead of the #1 MM hunter. of course there are PLENTY of variables at play, but that's just taking it at face value.

    if you play MM you'll be playing your class extremely subpar, and way way way below your potential. unfortunately that's just how it is right now

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by cashzilla View Post
    MM is much more than a few thousand DPS behind. it's normally 50k+ dps behind SV/BM. for example, on jin'rokh 10m normal the #1 BM hunter is 100k DPS ahead of the #1 MM hunter. of course there are PLENTY of variables at play, but that's just taking it at face value.
    Don't use WoL ranking to determine how good a spec is. MM is played by a very small number of players in raids. If the top 100 hunters never play MM in raids, how can you expect to see a realistic difference between the specs?

    MM is behind SV and BM, but I seriously doubt it's 100k dps.

    Just looked at ranking for Jin'rokh Heroic 25 man. SV, MM and BM are about the same dps (2-3k dps difference between the top ranking hunters).

    Of course, as you go look at harder fights the number of MM hunters simply grows smaller. For Durumu 25 man Heroic there are only 12 hunters playing MM. You can't get a realistic statistic if the number of people playing it is so small.
    Last edited by Noctifer616; 2013-06-25 at 01:17 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashzilla View Post
    MM is much more than a few thousand DPS behind. it's normally 50k+ dps behind SV/BM. for example, on jin'rokh 10m normal the #1 BM hunter is 100k DPS ahead of the #1 MM hunter. of course there are PLENTY of variables at play, but that's just taking it at face value.

    if you play MM you'll be playing your class extremely subpar, and way way way below your potential. unfortunately that's just how it is right now
    If you want to look at WoL and base our actual effectiveness off of that, then it appears we're truly broken. There is a 90k DPS difference between BM and MM on 10 man Jin'rokh for the top parses (35k difference between BM and SV). I think a lot of that comes from the mindset that MM is complete and utter garbage, so none of the top players in the world are trying to game their DPS for WoL rankings - the MM sample size is truly tiny compared to most any other spec in the game. From my experience, the difference hasn't been anywhere near that dramatic, a few thousand DPS at most normally. Heck, the theoretical rankings (Simcraft, FemaleDwarf, EJ) have only about a 15k difference between BiS BM and MM. I know that those numbers are pretty much worthless too, but I trust them more than WoL simply because you and your raid can't try to cheese the system (tunnel vision the boss ignoring fight mechanics, attack unimportant adds, etc..) just to get a high rank.

    Everyone is gonna play what they want to play, and if you're in a heroic guild struggling to progress, BM will most likely be better suited to give you that extra min/max edge. For the vast, vast majority of everyone else, in my experience / opinion, going Marks won't be near as detrimental as most people believe. Take that as it is - my opinion - not fact or Hunter gospel.

    *Edited for Dumb...
    Last edited by ATron52; 2013-06-25 at 01:39 PM.

  6. #26
    I think the bottom line is that we're already struggling for competitive DPS in our best (BM) spec, sacrificing more DPS for a harder playstyle just doesn't seem worth it, even if it is more fun. I guess it depends on how on-the-edge your guild raids as to whether that matters or not.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by cashzilla View Post
    if you play MM you'll be playing your class extremely subpar, and way way way below your potential. unfortunately that's just how it is right now
    Opting for MM has no bearing on how effectively someone will be playing their class. That's like saying you're going to be driving poorly if you choose a Ford over a Honda.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Littlepinch's Avatar
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    If you have been playing MM for a long time, have the shot priority down and anticipate your target switching ( also pool focus ). You will do just fine as MM. It's really not as much of a dps hindrance as people make it look. WOL is not a good place to look at the state of MM just because of the small pool of people using mm for progression.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Opting for MM has no bearing on how effectively someone will be playing their class. That's like saying you're going to be driving poorly if you choose a Ford over a Honda.
    While I get your point, you could have drove faster if you actually picked the much better Honda. If someone is actually good at his or her class, he or she will be able to play the other specs just fine after a little practice. At the end of the day, each spec can only do a certain amount of DPS under perfect play and circumstances. Just because you happen to be good at the weakest spec doesn't mean the other specs aren't superior.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-06-25 at 04:09 PM.
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  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Littlepinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    While I get your point, you could have drove faster if you actually picked the much better Honda. If someone is actually good at his or her class, he or she will be able to play the other specs just fine after a little practice. At the end of the day, each spec can only do a certain amount of DPS under perfect play and circumstances. Just because you happen to be good at the weakest spec doesn't mean the other specs aren't superior.
    It might be the weakest spec of the 3 atm but if you dont like what you are playing, you wont do well at it. This is why i stick to marksmen. I cant stand the other 2 specs and can't bring myself to play them just because they are the best theoretical dps. I will always do better dps in mm because of the sole fact that i know and enjoy the play of it.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    While I get your point, you could have drove faster if you actually picked the much better Honda. If someone is actually good at his or her class, he or she will be able to play the other specs just fine after a little practice. At the end of the day, each spec can only do a certain amount of DPS under perfect play and circumstances. Just because you happen to be good at the weakest spec doesn't mean the other specs aren't superior.
    Maybe we're just debating semantics, but what you're saying isn't refuting what I was clarifying. The guy I quoted seemed to be implying that speccing Marksmanship means you're playing poorly. Those things are utterly unrelated. You can play Marksmanship well, but the point is that the DPS might be lower. That's very different from playing poorly. That's the point I was trying to make.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Opting for MM has no bearing on how effectively someone will be playing their class. That's like saying you're going to be driving poorly if you choose a Ford over a Honda.
    you took this far too literally. playing MM means not playing the class to the full potential, bottom line. if there's a spec that 100% of the time results in higher damage and you're not playing it, you're below your classes potential. what i said had nothing to do with the persons effectiveness playing the spec

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