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  1. #1

    Ask Mr. Robot vs Shadow Priest

    Good day, today I tried to optimize my priest for the 1st time, here's my priest's armory(will try to keep it shadow)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oneko/advanced
    what robot told me is to get rid of all 160haste80int gems in favor of 180 int, replace 320 haste with 160haste80int and maximise my intelligence everywhere it's possible, reforging haste(!)on my chest to crit. In total I'll lose 10100+ haste cap in favor of 1220 simmed dps, which is really strange for me.
    Should I obey robot? Maybe I missed some settings...
    And other question(and that's why I basically decided to *ask mr robot* 1st time for 3 years playing): I've got http://www.wowhead.com/item=98276 [item=98276] weapon with 421 haste, 421 crit. Yesterday I got http://www.wowhead.com/item=96115 [item=96115], which contains 1k more spellpower, but will give me less haste, should I switch for new dagger? The main question is still one upstairs >.>

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Thanks Woaden, I've read your post on h2p more than once. My ilvl is above 505, Mr.Robot tells me I still should gem to int and reforge haste out. Should I believe?

  4. #4
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    Should I believe?
    Short answer: no.

  5. #5
    Hey Minoan, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. In your gear, you probably want to use our other stat weight preset, labeled T15 in the drop down menu (the menu right above your gear, on the left hand side). I saved a profile for you, using those weights: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/a...a-639cc4cc20a7

    As you can see, Mr. Robot agrees with your gemming choices, and also favors the Haste gems All of the optimization choices are controlled by the weights, which is why we have a few different presets.

    Also, I looked at the Ritual Dagger vs the Immaculate Scepter and the Ritual Dagger is about 3,000-4,000 points better (which would increase your total score by 2%). It's better on both the absolute and relative ranked lists.

    Short answer, you're doing it right, and Mr. Robot agrees once you select T15 weights. Hope that helps! And since it sounds like your somewhat new to Mr. Robot, hopefully this post will help And if you have further questions, PM me anytime. I'm always happy to hear from users and answer questions.
    Last edited by Zoopercat; 2013-06-24 at 08:41 AM.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
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  6. #6
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Hey Zoopercat, I forgot you asked me a question in a similar thread some weeks ago.

    I had left it open in a tab so I could respond, and then I shut down my computer at some point and forgot about it. ><

    So, it's possible that my issues in the past with Mr. Robot are either a) very old, or b) my misunderstanding of your UI and settings.

    I have had issues with it mis-detecting my hit or haste caps before, and it recommended either adding or subtracting some minor amount to meet them when I knew I was already on the marks - but I can't replicate them - so either they are fixed now, or I was mis-applying some preset or another.

    If I spot anything I think is a bug in the future though I'll add you to friends and shoot you a message
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-06-24 at 04:39 PM.
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  7. #7
    Yvaelle, I'm glad I'm not the only one that leaves tabs open as a reminder to respond. Haha - I too have closed them on accident.

    Anyway, you should check out our beta test of the new optimizer. It will guarantee the BEST optimization for all cases expect 3-caps (and we're working on the 3-cap cases). You have to enable it in the options menu - give it a go and let me know if anything seems off. That's why we're beta testing it

    Also, for more info on ui and options, here's a few posts you might find helpful:

    edit: late night typo
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
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  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    In my opinion a lot of the problems people have are the defaults: Tier 14 'gearing strategy' and this How Mr. Robot Feels about Hit Caps.

  9. #9
    The best thing any player can do to improve is, read everything you can from people who know what they are talkin abo, try to understand the class and how it works with stats(what effects what), and try to understand how to truly use simc once you learn your class you won't need to use tools. The information is easily out there, you just neeed to use it.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    The best thing any player can do to improve is, read everything you can from people who know what they are talkin abo, try to understand the class and how it works with stats(what effects what), and try to understand how to truly use simc once you learn your class you won't need to use tools. The information is easily out there, you just neeed to use it.
    Disagree completely. The best thing a player that is looking to improve can do is to just play the game and learn from there.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Disagree completely. The best thing a player that is looking to improve can do is to just play the game and learn from there.
    Practice makes perfect, definitely.

    That said when you're a scrub Shadow Priest in BC keyboard turning and not gemming Potent in Yellow, all those months of playing without knowledge got me nowhere. A couple of weeks of researching every bit of information out there and I was writing the Wrath of the Lich King Shadow PvE guide and being a competitive DPS pre-Hasted DoTs in my medium progression guild.

    You can play 8 hours a day, 5 days a week but if you're keyboard turning, clicking abilities on your action bar, using SW: D glyph w/ SW: D in your 20%+ rotation and gemming Crit you will suck until you learn what you should be doing.

    To claim otherwise...
    Last edited by Frmercury; 2013-06-25 at 04:38 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Practice makes perfect, definitely.

    That said when you're a scrub Shadow Priest in BC keyboard turning and not gemming Potent in Yellow, all those months of playing without knowledge got me nowhere. A couple of weeks of researching every bit of information out there and I was writing the Wrath of the Lich King Shadow PvE guide and being a competitive DPS pre-Hasted DoTs in my medium progression guild.

    You can play 8 hours a day, 5 days a week but if you're keyboard turning, clicking abilities on your action bar, using SW: D glyph w/ SW: D in your 20%+ rotation and gemming Crit you will suck until you learn what you should be doing.

    To claim otherwise...
    Well, if you play 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and you are still clicking abilities and keyboard turning, then you are obviously not trying to improve your play. Or am I just that naive? If you raid or PvP seriously, where improving your play matters, you are also surrounded by players that can help you.

    I'm not saying guides don't help, they certainly do. But the most common mistake I see people do when they are learning to play the game is to try to understand everything. And only when they get really good do they realize that most of the stuff they read about doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

    In my opinion, you are better off just copying some stuff, play the game and eventually you'll understand. When I started off I was fortunate enough to have a rank 13 player sitting next to me IRL telling me everything so clicking and keyboard turning is foreign to me.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    The best thing any player can do to improve is, read everything you can from people who know what they are talking about
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    [...] you are also surrounded by players that can help you.

    [...] When I started off I was fortunate enough to have a rank 13 player sitting next to me IRL telling me everything [...].
    Ok, in your case you listened to people who knew what they were talking about instead of reading. That's like saying "Reading books is a bad thing to do, but I think you should listen to audio-books." It's the same information dealt two ways so really you just dislike one method of delivery is all.

    Also guides have the advantage of standing up to scrutiny from thousands of players whereas "Random Guy X" (speaking in generalities) got his information from who knows where and could be in the same keyboard turning, clicking, SW: D glyph using, bad gemming boat that you are.

    I admit I'm biased as an author of such a work and I don't mean to completely dismiss the value of in game help but it's just not as reliable.

    Information Overload:
    It's why I state in the intro to my guide "Be warned though that I intend this to be fairly comprehensive (aka long), so feel free to skim through to sections most relevant to you." followed by a Table of Contents. I even made a tl;dnr version. So there's definitely resources available (specifically to Shadow) that delivers the cliff's notes with the option to get very in depth: you choose your experience.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    I admit I'm biased as an author of such a work and I don't mean to completely dismiss the value of in game help but it's just not as reliable.
    He's biased throw him out the window!

    Seriously though... sometimes no matter how hard you try to improve a different perspective provided by someone else (whether you know the person and talk to them or read stuff online) will make all the difference in the world if for no other fact than a different person comes with different perspectives and experiences and might suggest something you never would have thought of just because they come at things in a different way. Hell even the best players in the world still would gain improvements just from talking/reading about things in their field. No one person can really come up with every idea or think of everything.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Ok, in your case you listened to people who knew what they were talking about instead of reading. That's like saying "Reading books is a bad thing to do, but I think you should listen to audio-books." It's the same information dealt two ways so really you just dislike one method of delivery is all.

    Also guides have the advantage of standing up to scrutiny from thousands of players whereas "Random Guy X" (speaking in generalities) got his information from who knows where and could be in the same keyboard turning, clicking, SW: D glyph using, bad gemming boat that you are.

    I admit I'm biased as an author of such a work and I don't mean to completely dismiss the value of in game help but it's just not as reliable.

    Information Overload:
    It's why I state in the intro to my guide "Be warned though that I intend this to be fairly comprehensive (aka long), so feel free to skim through to sections most relevant to you." followed by a Table of Contents. I even made a tl;dnr version. So there's definitely resources available (specifically to Shadow) that delivers the cliff's notes with the option to get very in depth: you choose your experience.
    As I said, guides help. I don't disagree with that. Learning from others is good. It's the "everything part" and trying to learn to how SimC works and stat weight and what not when you are new to game.

  16. #16
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    I admit I'm biased as an author of such a work and I don't mean to completely dismiss the value of in game help but it's just not as reliable.
    I admit no such bias, I can objectively say guides are the best source of quality information (ok, maybe a little bias!)

    Actually I've found the discussion pretty interesting

    It has to be a combination of education (guides, or tutors in Ariadne's case) and experience - personally I'd suggest reading a very brief overview type guide initially - so that you aren't forming bad habits, then gain a good chunk of experience, then return to a more in-depth analysis when you are ready to improve. If you go directly to experience, you will learn bad habits and have to unlearn them later (which is very difficult). If you go directly into the in-depth aspects you won't have the context to understand what is being discussed, a little experience will go a long way in that regard.


    Information Overload:
    It's why I state in the intro to my guide "Be warned though that I intend this to be fairly comprehensive (aka long), so feel free to skim through to sections most relevant to you." followed by a Table of Contents. I even made a tl;dnr version. So there's definitely resources available (specifically to Shadow) that delivers the cliff's notes with the option to get very in depth: you choose your experience.
    Originally when I wrote my guide it became a series of essays on everything Shadow - it had good depth of topic, but was hard to read for new or even casual spriests. It was only when I got some guildies to review it I realized how much I was missing my core audience - those of us who want to tear Shadow down into a series of numbers and simulations ourselves: we already do that. Those shadowpriests who want somebody to do that and then report back all their findings, they have Twintop for that.

    The market gap wasn't a lack of in-depth knowledge, it was catering to new spriests - who wanted "the right answers" in as few words as possible - even if those answers weren't right for every situation (since of course, they wouldn't be). That's why I drew up my Short Version guide and put it right at the top of my guide. Those users want to click the link, read the talents or spells in a list - even without context, confirm that they are using the "right" gem or talent point, and then they want to go play the game. It's not wrong of them to want that, they're content to have a working knowledge of Shadow - and maybe when they want more details they will either look at my Long Version guide, or look at Woaden's or Twintop's in-depth information.

    We can't realistically write one guide to meet the needs of every demographic - I think the way we all handle it right now is pretty effective - different guides for different audiences

    Edit: Even my current "Long Version" is like half or a third of the original novel I was writing, I'm not sure who would have wanted to read that - in retrospect I should have self-published it just to say I was a published author on my resume "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Emissaries of Darkness" or it could be, "The Power of Void" or how about "Chicken Soup for the Hollow Soul" ^^
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-06-25 at 07:01 PM.
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  17. #17
    I think it's parts of both and that they both synergize well. It's the same with other games. Lets use lol as an example, you learning what champions do and how their abilities interact will improve yor game play significantly. You then take that information and use it in real game scenarios.

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  18. #18
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    You don't need Mr. Robot and Simcraft that bad as a begginer, really. I mean all that nerd maths stuff is fancy, but if you don't know how to put it to use, what good is it? Just add Ariadne on skype and you're best SP world in no time. Worked for me at least. Oh, and read this, sums up a lot of stuff that'll help you improve.
    Last edited by veiledy0; 2013-06-26 at 12:41 AM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    You don't need Mr. Robot and Simcraft that bad as a begginer, really. I mean all that nerd maths stuff is fancy, but if you don't know how to put it to use, what good is it? Just add Ariadne on skype and you're best SP world in no time. Worked for me at least. Oh, and read this, sums up a lot of stuff that'll help you improve.
    Slurp, slurp, slurp.

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  20. #20
    considering the mechanics for shadow are so basic and otherwise unabusable i'd say your best means of improvement is to stack haste and bandwidth and work on your SWD reaction times.

    well, that and halo pro.

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