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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    No they can't be right. Rets are terrible remember?
    /sarcasm.

    Hunters everywhere, shocker. A priest in 8 of the top 9 comps, also shocker. And disc is getting more buffs in 5.4, seriously they need to fix the healer problems more than the dps ones.
    It's also not even accurate, nor up to date. There are very few Rogues post 5.3 over the rating of 2200 who actively play. The majority of Rogues who are above that rating have sat on their teams since before 5.3. I noticed right away when I saw Mirlol listed as a Rank 3 Rogue that something was terribly wrong as he hasn't been active for literally close to 3 months. Same applies to every other "high ranked" Rogue on that list. I imagine Rogue representation is currently much, much lower than listed with this variable in mind.

  2. #62
    1-2 seasons were Hunter representation is NOT at the bottom of the charts like the previous 10-11 seasons, and people act like Hunters have been top dog ever since Vanilla. Grow up already.

  3. #63
    It's a very nice site, and seems to be more accurate with more frequent updates than worldofwargraphs. Definitely look forward to seeing where it goes in the future. I just hope it doesn't drown in features, from what the creator said on AJ he has a lot planned for it.

  4. #64
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    It's also not even accurate, nor up to date. There are very few Rogues post 5.3 over the rating of 2200 who actively play. The majority of Rogues who are above that rating have sat on their teams since before 5.3. I noticed right away when I saw Mirlol listed as a Rank 3 Rogue that something was terribly wrong as he hasn't been active for literally close to 3 months. Same applies to every other "high ranked" Rogue on that list. I imagine Rogue representation is currently much, much lower than listed with this variable in mind.
    I don't know what you expect, but to me it's showing accurate information. Regardless of rogues' viability on live, these team-sitting rogues are considered active for the purposes of title calculation and are still ranked on the ladder for this season. I think for that to change, Blizzard needs to change the rules first. Statistics sites aren't going to just exclude hard information because it doesn't reflect live queues. Besides that, I don't think there's any way for a site to determine when a team last played.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallu View Post
    1-2 seasons were Hunter representation is NOT at the bottom of the charts like the previous 10-11 seasons, and people act like Hunters have been top dog ever since Vanilla. Grow up already.
    In 2 consecutive seasons, and potentially a third soon - hunters have been the key to almost all the strongest comps in Mop. I haven't seen many people complaining about hunters in past expansions, but their complaints about hunters right now are pretty legitimate. Also, while hunters haven't been well represented in awhile prior to MoP (WotLK was the last time hunters were high on representation), that doesn't mean hunters were bad in cataclysm - a number of hunters were rank 1 and competing against the best in the world, and winning: it was just a very hard class to play for awhile, and drove people away from learning it.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    In 2 consecutive seasons, and potentially a third soon
    are you serious please do explain how hunters will still be top next season, people have bitched about hunters since the start of mop and they have been repeatedly nerfed over and over and over, all anyone has to do atm to stop a hunter is kill the pet and stop them reviving it simple as... people need to l2p for reals...

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    are you serious please do explain how hunters will still be top next season, people have bitched about hunters since the start of mop and they have been repeatedly nerfed over and over and over, all anyone has to do atm to stop a hunter is kill the pet and stop them reviving it simple as... people need to l2p for reals...
    Some people need to l2p, yeah. But A LOT of the complaints about Hunters are definitely legit, you can't deny Hunters are op right now.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Some people need to l2p, yeah. But A LOT of the complaints about Hunters are definitely legit, you can't deny Hunters are op right now.
    No i dont deny it but fact is, stampede is now useless does litterally nearly nothing... people still whine about it, i'm just looking for a legit reason to Yvaelles comment about being top dog still in 5.4 after more and more nerfs, even if BM is still viable in 5.4 people will bitch until it is useless...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    No i dont deny it but fact is, stampede is now useless does litterally nearly nothing... people still whine about it, i'm just looking for a legit reason to Yvaelles comment about being top dog still in 5.4 after more and more nerfs, even if BM is still viable in 5.4 people will bitch until it is useless...
    People complaining about stampede are your l2p issue folks. Stampede hasn't been a problem since its early resil bug was patched. Hunters as a whole are still very broken as of 5.3. You make it sound like every non-hunter has sworn a vendetta against you and conspire to ruin your class for no good reason.

    As for 5.4, I don't know how strong they'll be aside from speculation based on patch notes. Still, to be completely honest I don't believe for a second they'll be a weak class. People will just switch to marksman to keep silencing shot and they'll still coast off of their obscene damage and constant pressure through rotational CC. I'm sure they'll be less ridiculous than in 5.3, but I don't see that they've been gutted to non-viability or even non-strong thus far.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    No i dont deny it but fact is, stampede is now useless does litterally nearly nothing... people still whine about it, i'm just looking for a legit reason to Yvaelles comment about being top dog still in 5.4 after more and more nerfs, even if BM is still viable in 5.4 people will bitch until it is useless...
    BM is currently the most overpowered dps class in the game, only possible argument is for ferals. BM is getting some decent cc nerfs, but also getting 50% (!) more dmg on their main spam (and dont pretend like the focus cost matters). Imagine if mages lost ring of frost, you would think, man thats a good nerf for mages. What if they then turned around and buffed icelance damage by 30+%, would you still think they are getting "nerfed into the ground"?

    Hunters are overpowered as HELL right now, and getting minor nerfs. Therefore they will still be strong as hell (especially since ferals, mages, spriests, boomkins, and locks are getting nerfs as well). The readiness nerf is a step in the right direction but im sick and tired of hunters being compensated every time they get nerfed. I mean comeon, 50% more damage on your main spam shot. Not like 10 or 20%, fucking 50%.

  11. #71
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    No i dont deny it but fact is, stampede is now useless does litterally nearly nothing... people still whine about it, i'm just looking for a legit reason to Yvaelles comment about being top dog still in 5.4 after more and more nerfs, even if BM is still viable in 5.4 people will bitch until it is useless...
    Yeah, the Stampede complaints weren't really legit. Have you played the ptr? Hunters tear through people with cd's, Arcane Shots crit for like 50-60k and you can spam it with BW up. The damage is higher than now, I'd say, but you lack SS as BM.

  12. #72
    and priests are QQing on the ptr forums about NO DONT NERF US we are horrible and barely viable QQQQ..... maybe people playing priests that suck need to realize they just suck and its not there class lol. cause with this data It looks like anyone could hit 2200 on a priest.
    Last edited by momirmaster; 2013-06-25 at 09:30 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallu View Post
    1-2 seasons were Hunter representation is NOT at the bottom of the charts like the previous 10-11 seasons, and people act like Hunters have been top dog ever since Vanilla. Grow up already.
    hunter representation was lower in cata because hunters took skill to do well on, not because they were bad. Good hunters did extremely well and regularly got gladiator/R1, bad hunters gave up because they couldn't be bothered to learn how to be better.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    hunter representation was lower in cata because hunters took skill to do well on, not because they were bad.
    I think it was more of the case of "why bring a hunter when you can bring a mage or warlock?" I remember one season where hunters only had like one team over 2200 rating, and when I asked why that was most, people said that during that time anything Hunters could do, Warlocks and Mages could do better. Similar to the "why bring a Warrior when you could get a Feral Druid instead" mentality towards the end of Cataclysm.
    Last edited by achromatickang; 2013-06-25 at 11:10 PM.

  15. #75
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    are you serious please do explain how hunters will still be top next season, people have bitched about hunters since the start of mop and they have been repeatedly nerfed over and over and over, all anyone has to do atm to stop a hunter is kill the pet and stop them reviving it simple as... people need to l2p for reals...
    Given all the changes to other classes, the hunter nerfs are quite minor overall. BM is getting a damage buff, marksmen is getting a damage buff - marksmen is getting silencing shot while BM is losing it but gaining access to binding shot. Binding shot is actually pretty incredible depending on the comp you play - so don't underestimate what it will mean for peeling pet-spam off yourself or your healers - if an enemy hunter stampedes, and/or a rogue drops a smoke bomb on your healer - and you binding shot them when your healer moves out, you just shut down their big burst window using a 25(?) second cooldown: that's going to be awesome for BM versus thugcleave/PHD.

    Meanwhile, Marksmen is looking more viable all the time - the biggest problem with hunters all expansion hasn't been damage necessarily, or survivability - but their near-constant application of instant (and thus uncounterable/avoidable) CC's, as prelude to longer CC's that would otherwise be counterable. With Scatter no longer requiring close range, you can't kite hunters to avoid the scatter->trap like you could in the past, and you can't avoid the trap while scattered: they may as well make trap last 3 seconds longer and arm instantly. Similarly the use of pet stuns/roots/disorients works just as well, and the use of silencing shot to constantly disrupt healers or casters who thought they were safe to cast 40 yards from the nearest melee is pretty devastating.

    Instant CC is what makes hunters so strong right now, not Stampede. Combined with the multitude of trinket-like effects, the best gap opener (Narrow Escape Disengage) in the game, and the threatening burst cycles every minute that are largely un-counterable (Beast Within) - hunters have been a force to be reckoned with all expansion, and if anything - they have mostly slipped under the radar.

    Killing the pet isn't really the counter against hunter teams you make it out to be - if the hunter isn't protecting their pet, then the hunter is getting out-played - in an equal MMR match against a PHD or Thugcleave, BM pets almost never die - and if they do - they instantly resurrect that first time. I'm not saying people shouldn't try to kill the pet if they catch it around a box... all my toons DoT up both hunter and lock pets - but they only usually die if we're pressuring the hunter and cc'ing the healer: when the enemy team has other things to worry about. Pressuring hunters with a non-ret/feral melee on my team is pretty much impossible (and none of my teams currently have a ret or feral on them).

    BM damage is going up, their control and anti-control might go down - but they are also the only class in the game who gets to keep their passive damage reduction (10%). That is going to be a huge survivability advantage if they buff base resilience to 75% like a lot of people seem to suspect.

    Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying "ZOMG Huntarz are OP!!1", I'm saying hunters have been one of the strongest classes all expansion - and likely will be for all of MoP. Yes, they are going to receive some minor nerfs - but all the other 'strong' classes are getting comparatively heavy nerfs - and at the same time - some of the best partners for hunters are proving to be quite strong now, and likely next season (rets, enh, rogue, warriors, disc).
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-06-25 at 11:34 PM.
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  16. #76
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    hunter representation was lower in cata because hunters took skill to do well on, not because they were bad. Good hunters did extremely well and regularly got gladiator/R1, bad hunters gave up because they couldn't be bothered to learn how to be better.
    Hunters still have a high skill cap. They just have a low skill floor now due to the dead zone changes. The reason hunters were largely unpopular in cataclysm was because on top of knowing how to effectively control and silence your opponent, you also needed amazing positioning. It wasn't enjoyable to many hunters to play a class that was completely useless in close quarters. That's what drew people away from the class. It had an absurd high skill floor.

    Now its skill floor is at DK and Warrior levels. But unlike DK's and Warriors Hunters still have a high skill cap. You can basically say that Hunters have become ranged physical damage dealing Mages. Both have low skills floors and high skill caps.
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    I think it was more of the case of "why bring a hunter when you can bring a mage or warlock?" I remember one season where hunters only had like one team over 2200 rating, and when I asked why that was most, people said that during that time anything Hunters could do, Warlocks and Mages could do better. Similar to the "why bring a Warrior when you could get a Feral Druid instead" mentality towards the end of Cataclysm.
    because there are quite a few comps that don't work with mages or warlocks and do work with hunters

    ret/hunter/healer, PHD and beastcleave are all examples of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Now its skill floor is at DK and Warrior levels. But unlike DK's and Warriors Hunters still have a high skill cap. You can basically say that Hunters have become ranged physical damage dealing Mages. Both have low skills floors and high skill caps.
    mages don't have a high skill cap.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2013-06-26 at 12:05 AM.
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  18. #78
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    I think what people aren't realizing with this kind of info is that most popular comps are dependant on the most viable comps. Meaning, if KFC or ret/hunter/x is the most common comp, the second most popular comp will be the best counter to that comp. That's one of the main reasons why Shatreeplay was so popular last season, or any spriest comp for that matter. When hunters are as popular as they are now, any class that can dispel their healer is also going to be popular. Likewise, with the amount of priests, shamans become popular because of a dps class having tremor. It's all just an arms race at this point.

    Also, the main thing I got from that info was buff fire mages.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Given all the changes to other classes, the hunter nerfs are quite minor overall. BM is getting a damage buff, marksmen is getting a damage buff - marksmen is getting silencing shot while BM is losing it but gaining access to binding shot. Binding shot is actually pretty incredible depending on the comp you play - so don't underestimate what it will mean for peeling pet-spam off yourself or your healers - if an enemy hunter stampedes, and/or a rogue drops a smoke bomb on your healer - and you binding shot them when your healer moves out, you just shut down their big burst window using a 25(?) second cooldown: that's going to be awesome for BM versus thugcleave/PHD.

    Meanwhile, Marksmen is looking more viable all the time - the biggest problem with hunters all expansion hasn't been damage necessarily, or survivability - but their near-constant application of instant (and thus uncounterable/avoidable) CC's, as prelude to longer CC's that would otherwise be counterable. With Scatter no longer requiring close range, you can't kite hunters to avoid the scatter->trap like you could in the past, and you can't avoid the trap while scattered: they may as well make trap last 3 seconds longer and arm instantly. Similarly the use of pet stuns/roots/disorients works just as well, and the use of silencing shot to constantly disrupt healers or casters who thought they were safe to cast 40 yards from the nearest melee is pretty devastating.

    Instant CC is what makes hunters so strong right now, not Stampede. Combined with the multitude of trinket-like effects, the best gap opener (Narrow Escape Disengage) in the game, and the threatening burst cycles every minute that are largely un-counterable (Beast Within) - hunters have been a force to be reckoned with all expansion, and if anything - they have mostly slipped under the radar.

    Killing the pet isn't really the counter against hunter teams you make it out to be - if the hunter isn't protecting their pet, then the hunter is getting out-played - in an equal MMR match against a PHD or Thugcleave, BM pets almost never die - and if they do - they instantly resurrect that first time. I'm not saying people shouldn't try to kill the pet if they catch it around a box... all my toons DoT up both hunter and lock pets - but they only usually die if we're pressuring the hunter and cc'ing the healer: when the enemy team has other things to worry about. Pressuring hunters with a non-ret/feral melee on my team is pretty much impossible (and none of my teams currently have a ret or feral on them).

    BM damage is going up, their control and anti-control might go down - but they are also the only class in the game who gets to keep their passive damage reduction (10%). That is going to be a huge survivability advantage if they buff base resilience to 75% like a lot of people seem to suspect.

    Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying "ZOMG Huntarz are OP!!1", I'm saying hunters have been one of the strongest classes all expansion - and likely will be for all of MoP. Yes, they are going to receive some minor nerfs - but all the other 'strong' classes are getting comparatively heavy nerfs - and at the same time - some of the best partners for hunters are proving to be quite strong now, and likely next season (rets, enh, rogue, warriors, disc).
    stampede is our BIG dmg cd? think u livin few patchs ago and isnt binding shot a 45sec cd?

  20. #80
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blingtown View Post
    stampede is our BIG dmg cd? think u livin few patchs ago and isnt binding shot a 45sec cd?
    I pretty explicitly said Stampede hasn't been the problem since 5.0? Not sure how you interpret that as me saying the exact opposite. Binding is 45 seconds, but as Marksmen it's always up.. or scatter... or silence... or pet stun... lots of instant CC's beyond binding shot: it allows you to peel enemy stampedes and peel during smoke bombs - that's hardly useless.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-06-26 at 01:02 AM.
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