Arena Representation site - s13 ; repost from AJ

[Yvaelle]

Yvaelle you're a moderator so I'm not gonna write exactly what I think, but most of what you are saying is mostly bullshit.

I'm a pretty lax mod, I've never infracted anyone for attacking me even when they would have been infracted for attacking someone else in the same words. You would pretty much have to use hate speech that would offend other readers before I'd take take it out on you for voicing your opinions.

Hybrid in pvp means a character who deals damage while he could spec healer. That's it. Warrior and DK are NOT hybrids, deal with it. Hybrid is dps+heal. I don't care about your pve terminology that comes from TBC.

I get that you want to define it that way, but Blizzard certainly doesn't - and the distinction of dps+heals isn't a very solid one, especcially in MoP - all the classes have way too much stuff, both for themselves and as utility / peels for their allies.

On top of that, you're implying that a warrior has more cc than a ret. LOL. Have you ever put a foot in an arena? Or even in a random bg for that matter.. The warrior has the worst CC in the entire game. A fear 1.5 minute and a shockwave 40s. That is all. Dont talk about other talent CC, we dont take them.

I felt it was pretty clear that I was talking about pre-5.2 warriors, when charge stuns were cycled with shockwaves and silences and multiple interrupts to permanently lock down enemy casters/healers. Even after 5.2 though, Warriors have more CC than Rets - but not enough I'd consider it worth bringing up in a debate.

Worst, you're trying to say a warrior is hard to kill. Are you aware its one of the most easy class to kill ? Well I should know it, as a warrior there is nothing easier to kill than another warrior.

Warriors pre-5.2 were very hard to kill - they are probably one of the easiest melee to kill now though - apart from rogues for mage comps (CC until Feint drops then Shatter).

Even worse, you're saying a warrior is hard to cc. LOL². Its the easiest class to control. Oh yeah, we got an anti fear, which is a DPS boost usually. So we waste a damage cd to get out of a fear , right. Avatar is not used to break cc , its used to burst damage. So we wont use it. Safeguard is used to eat traps, not to get out of roots. Cause a healer trapped = you die, no matter what. So yeah, thats it about our great cc defense mechanisms.

While berserker rage is a very minor DPS boost, I don't think you mean to argue that warriors have to blow Berserker Rage on cooldown for damage when fighting Fear-based comps, and thus are fearable? Or that gaining the rage/damage is worth eating a full fear?
If Avatar isn't used to break CC, I assume you wouldn't mind if they removed the CC break it has? If you think it should keep the CC break, I hope you see that it's a useful CC break.
If a warrior is rooted and safeguard is available and he doesn't expect a dispel - he'll sit in the root and not use safeguard because all teams contain hunters on them?

That, is showing you dont pvp at all. Warriors are still stance dancing a lot. Its not even hard to notice, a big icon pops right above the warrior head each time he changes his stance.
If he's focused, or THINKING he will get switched to, you will see a shield above his head. If nobody is attacking him, you will see two maces above his head.

My point was exactly that warriors are making use of Defensive Stance, and have done so since vanilla - so I guess I'm glad you agree with me

[Iyarashii]

Because rogues have feint (talented), recup and lots of cc, would that make them a hybrid?

My only problem with the state of the game right now is that fact that lots of hybrids are out performing "pures" by a good margin. You never see kitty cleave anymore, now it's jungle cleave and ret/hunt/priest, same with thug. There is also so many wrong things people have said in this thread it's absurd, like hunters not having a steady representation in PVP, they might have had a high skill cap at times, but they were still VERY viable for R1 for many seasons and to say that they DON'T need nerfs is crazy as well. Everyone in a high rated pvp environment as well as myself that plays at 2300+ would say the very same thing.

There is a lot of classes that need buffs and nerfs, the first for nerfs would be hunters and hybrids with the ability to heal, cc and put out huge numbers at the same time, a good example would be ret/hunter/preist, ele/x/x, feral/hunter/preist, and ench/hunter/disc. Though nerfing just hunters would fix a little of those comps hybrids that can do the past mentioned still are out of control. Those needing buffs would be rogues, warriors, though those two are just off the top of my head and be it ironically or me being bias are the two classes I main in PVP. Maybe even WindWalker monks could use a buff, but I've seen monks that do hit pretty damn and have enough cc/off-heals to make them viable.

[Hand Banana]

Yvaelle you're a moderator so I'm not gonna write exactly what I think, but most of what you are saying is mostly bullshit.

On top of that, you're implying that a warrior has more cc than a ret. LOL. Have you ever put a foot in an arena? Or even in a random bg for that matter.. The warrior has the worst CC in the entire game. A fear 1.5 minute and a shockwave 40s. That is all. Dont talk about other talent CC, we dont take them.

Worst, you're trying to say a warrior is hard to kill. Are you aware its one of the most easy class to kill ? Well I should know it, as a warrior there is nothing easier to kill than another warrior.

Even worse, you're saying a warrior is hard to cc. LOL². Its the easiest class to control. Oh yeah, we got an anti fear, which is a DPS boost usually. So we waste a damage cd to get out of a fear , right. Avatar is not used to break cc , its used to burst damage. So we wont use it. Safeguard is used to eat traps, not to get out of roots. Cause a healer trapped = you die, no matter what. So yeah, thats it about our great cc defense mechanisms.

To be honest, I'm not defending anyone, but holy shit you are wrong in alot of ways. Wars have ALOT of cc, thats half the reason you even consider a warrior. Charge stun, shockwave, storm bolt, disarm, fear, pummel, and disrupting shout all on fairly low cd's. Rets have more "burst cc" through FoJ and Blinding light, but overall cc and lockdown wars have a lot more.

Warriors are very hard to kill; anything else is biased. Highest passive DR in the game at 25%, multiple D cds (not going to say they are great since shield wall reduces dmg to damn near 0) and a really strong passive heal when they are in trouble. Couple that with great mobility on the defensive between intervene/safeguard and heroic leap and a well played warrior is very difficult to down, although you can pressure them for sure. Saying zerker rage is a damage boost is pretty laughable; unless the enemy team has 0 fears (which is pretty rare nowadays) zerker rage is ALWAYS used to break ccs; this isnt pve.

Trust me, like I said im not defending anyone, but Yavelle knows his/her shit 99% of the time, so saying she doesn't pvp by nitpicking warriors is a bad argument.

[kosechi]

Even worse, you're saying a warrior is hard to cc. LOL². Its the easiest class to control. Oh yeah, we got an anti fear, which is a DPS boost usually. So we waste a damage cd to get out of a fear , right. Avatar is not used to break cc , its used to burst damage. So we wont use it. Safeguard is used to eat traps, not to get out of roots. Cause a healer trapped = you die, no matter what. So yeah, thats it about our great cc defense mechanisms.

So please know what you're talking about before.. actually talking about it, thanks. Being moderator doesnt give you the right to say nonsense and get along with it.

so, what are ret's anti cc mechanisms?

hand of sac? doesn't do enough damage to break many ccs and more often used to dispel healers out of cc.
bubble? not really a way out of cc, but rather the only defensive cooldown rets have against physical damage comps.
BoP? same as bubble.
freedom? nice, but not always useful if you can't close gaps instantly.


between a warrior's ability to get out of LoS quickly, reflect, and break cc, they are much harder to control then rets. thats the big weakness of rets which is what offsets their tremendous burst, is that they are completely controllable during it.

[Lulbalance]

so, what are ret's anti cc mechanisms?

hand of sac? doesn't do enough damage to break many ccs and more often used to dispel healers out of cc.
bubble? not really a way out of cc, but rather the only defensive cooldown rets have against physical damage comps.
BoP? same as bubble.
freedom? nice, but not always useful if you can't close gaps instantly.

edit - i'm retracting this.. lol. it's late and what i said about your post was rude and wasn't helpful.

i'm just gonna saaayy... hi! i hope your family is doing well!

[kosechi]

i know i should let this thread die.. but man... ^ is a funny few lines of hilarity. lol.

i know, the general ignorance most people have of how ret works is pretty hilarious.

[Lulbalance]

i know, the general ignorance most people have of how ret works is pretty hilarious.

well, you're not wrong!