The New Warchief???

[Deleted]

You do realize you're talking about a game, a story which can be written any way Blizzard wants it to, right ?

[Breccia]

Now I know the majority of people want Vul'jin, Thrall, or Baine to be the new warchief

Wait, Baine? Really? I'm a tauren and even I can't see the reason Baine would be Warchief. Lor'themar has a better shot than him (but, in my opinion, third behind Vol'jin and Thrall)

[Jediguy]

You make excuses like 'he's already been warchief, he can't again for XXX reason'. Need I remind you that Varian was ruler of the humans since even before wow, and his whole journey making his disappear, and then come back a changed character, and now set to be ruler of all the alliance?

Need I remind you that Varian was absent since the beginning of WoW and that his “return” was the introduction to a completely new character to players who started playing in WoW? The same cannot be said of Thrall. Players know Thrall. He’s been Warchief for years giving out quests and getting attacked by Alliance raids. The situation is not parallel. When Varian “returned” to Stormwind, people didn’t know him – it was a character they were unfamiliar with, which made his return exciting. Players got to thinking, “what’s going to happen? Where is he going to lead us? Hot-dang, we have a king again!” What will they think if Thrall is made Warchief again? “Oh, that guy. We all know him and his leadership style. He’s not even interested in being Warchief – he left us and came back only when we started a revolution.” Thrall’s a good leader, but that doesn’t seem to be where this story is headed. It lacks the excitement of establishing a leader – he’s already established.

Infact the fact that Thrall is back in the picture right now, trying to find orcs to stand against Garrosh, and even standing against him himself, with Garrosh preventing him from using his shamanistic powers, shows Thrall as having more guts then any of the other leaders.

This smells of Thrall-loving bias, though. Thrall standing up to Garrosh is ballsy, sure, but other leaders have done the same. Vol’jin threatened to kill him to his face (doesn’t get more ballsy than that) and Lor’themar suggested it may come to him becoming Warchief by deposing Garrosh. Thrall isn’t leading armies against Garrosh – every other Horde leader is. Thrall is supporting them, but that’s just it: support. He’s not leading them. The three people who seem to be leading the rebellion against Garrosh are Vol’jin, Lor’themar, and Baine.

People simply don't seem to be prioritizing anything in this debate. They keep trying to pass off the important things to take into account in favor of satisfying there[sic] own fan service.

Lor'themar, Sylvanas, Baine, even Vol'jin, the only reason you want these characters it because your either more of a fan of there race or there character then you are the orcs.

This is just an ad hominem logic fallacy: you’re attacking the person instead of what is being said.

And you people keep forgetting the orcs will be leaderless

No, that is a separate issue. “Who will be leader of the orcs” is a different question than “who will be leader of the Horde?”

…and as the vast majority of forces in the horde are Orcs…

Actually, they’re not: http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html. Looks like Orcs compose only 6% of the entire WoW population while Blood Elves compose over 13%. For every Orc, there are two Blood Elves. Yes, I know this is player demographics, but since we don’t have an official lore-grounded census from Blizzard telling us the populations of each race, this is the best we have.

…why in gods name do you keep parading the idea that someone who isn't an orc going to be able to lead them? What, are the orcs going to cheer then a blood elf tells them what to do?

You mean like the Tauren, Forsaken, Blood Elves, Trolls, Goblins, and Pandaren listening to an Orc Warchief? Huh…

Would it ever work the other way, what if a gnome took over stormwind, would a gnome understand humans the same as an actual human would? How about the trolls, why don't we have sylvanas take over the trolls as a race, because I'm so sure she'll understand the trolls...

Again, “leader of the orcs” isn’t the same as “leader of the Horde;” so far, those titles have referred to the same person, but it need not be that way. Those two things can be different.

You need more common sense. The orcs are in need of a leader after all this, and one thats going to guide them right instead of leading them astray like Garrosh did.

Or look at it this way: if you were a non-orc member of the Horde, would you be anxious to see another Orc leading you after what everyone went through with Garrosh? There could be some rational hesitation there.

They need an orc, and since blizzard decided to either cut away most other candidates from the list of important orc characters, you are literally left with only two. Thrall and Saurfang.

Maybe so, but also consider that for a long time, the humans of Stormwind were without a king.

[Golden Yak]

Personally I want Lor'themar Theron as Warchief (even though I have to look up how to spell his name every time I write it). If we can't have the dark iron and black smoke industry of the True Horde, then the arcane magi-tech of the blood elves would be a good substitute. I'd like to see more of it proliferate, especially in light of the Anima they captured from the Throne of Thunder.

Sylvanas' Forsaken engineering and plague-craft would be even better, but it's way less likely for her to become Warchief. Even Lor'themar is a long-shot.

[Saverem]

Watch it be Thrall's baby mamma. Whats-her-face.

[Varbaro]

you forgot the facts inside the 5.4 audio spoilers where garrosh laugh about something shamanism, how weak he (thrall?) is against the dark shamans.

[Kralljin]

you forgot the facts inside the 5.4 audio spoilers where garrosh laugh about something shamanism, how weak he (thrall?) is against the dark shamans.

Garrosh's Dark Shaman corrupted the Elements around Orgrimmar, classical Shamanism (asking the Elements for aid) is basically useless there.

Though it's interesting what happens to that after SoO, Shamans are the Orcs cultural leader, being powerless in your capital isn't that good if aren't following some kind of "darker" path.

Actually, they’re not: http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html. Looks like Orcs compose only 6% of the entire WoW population while Blood Elves compose over 13%. For every Orc, there are two Blood Elves. Yes, I know this is player demographics, but since we don’t have an official lore-grounded census from Blizzard telling us the populations of each race, this is the best we have.

So, Silvermoon should be the Horde capital, not Orgrimmar?

Look around in any questing zone with a Horde town, how many Orcs you find there and how many blood elves?

Orcs make up the main bulk of the Horde forces, this is one of the reasons why Garrosh started to dislike the other Horde Races, because he thinks that those are leeching manpower from the stronger, orcish Horde.

It's questionable which race comes after the Orcs in terms of population but Orcs are clearly the main race of the Horde in terms of numbers.

[therealbowser]

It's going to be Thrallololol. AKA: Go'el! Go'el! Go'el! Go'el! Go'el! Go'el! Go'el! Go'el!

I hope it's Vol'jin though. And wouldn't it be entertaining if it was Lor'themar Theron? Blood elves are certainly the most popular race in the game.

[rogueMatthias]

It will be Thralls baby who's come back from the future!!!!!

He's a skilled warrior and a natural at both shamanastic magic and aracane magics (plus he's pretty good at Druidic magics too because he's awesome!).

[Deleted]

I have a guess that is running through my mind some weeks now . My guess of who they will pick for new warchief is Medan , the son of garrona and medivh and new guardian of trisfall. Why i think they will pick him is based in 2-3 facts. 1st his origins : he is 1/4 orc, 1/4 dranei and 2/4 human , so for orc leader he has the orc blood to fill that roll . 2nd in patch 5.3 and more in 5.4 alliance and horde overcome their hatred and they help each other to defeat garrosh , so again his different origins from both factions fit more in the way things go. 3rd in the next expansion that is rumoured it will about burning legion the 2 factions will have to unite and cooperate even more, so medan with his multi-origins and his super powers as guardian will fit in the role to lead them in the victory against BL. I know my theory has very few odds to come true. But is around my mind some weeeks now and wanted to express it so dont be harsh and share your opinion about it . remember is just a guess not what i want.

[leaks]

I have a guess that is running through my mind some weeks now . My guess of who they will pick for new warchief is Medan , the son of garrona and medivh and new guardian of trisfall. Why i think they will pick him is based in 2-3 facts. 1st his origins : he is 1/4 orc, 1/4 dranei and 2/4 human , so for orc leader he has the orc blood to fill that roll . 2nd in patch 5.3 and more in 5.4 alliance and horde overcome their hatred and they help each other to defeat garrosh , so again his different origins from both factions fit more in the way things go. 3rd in the next expansion that is rumoured it will about burning legion the 2 factions will have to unite and cooperate even more, so medan with his multi-origins and his super powers as guardian will fit in the role to lead them in the victory against BL. I know my theory has very few odds to come true. But is around my mind some weeeks now and wanted to express it so dont be harsh and share your opinion about it . remember is just a guess not what i want.

No way in hell. That character is such a disaster they sent him to another world just so they didn't have to deal with him being in the story anymore.

[Deleted]

sorry for reposting but i forgot another 4th fact : what blizzard says that warchief will be someone noone expecting

[Pua]

I had a good laugh at this post, I must admit.

People simply don't seem to be prioritizing anything in this debate. They keep trying to pass off the important things to take into account in favor of satisfying there own fan service.

Haha, the irony!

Lor'themar, Sylvanas, Baine, even Vol'jin, the only reason you want these characters it because your either more of a fan of there race or there character then you are the orcs.

Actually, Lor’themar Theron has been getting a lot of attention and in a number of direct ways. Not only did he and his race take responsibility for the Divine Bell, he also spearheads the Isle of Thunder assault and makes direct reference to himself as a possible Warchief. It’s understood that he’s not seen much development before this expansion, but Pandaria saw no development until this expansion.

Times change.

Further lore points to things such as who the Blood elves are, the fact Lor’themar would be the type of diplomat the Horde needs, his meeting with Jaina at the conclusion of the Isle of Thunder scenarios and the fact he plays no part in the rebellion (meaning orcs won’t hold it against him). Outside of the game, discounting the fact that the Horde player base is dominated by Blood elves is discounting how the community feels; good luck to Blizzard if they don’t take that fact under consideration.

In short, discounting Lor’themar is your own bias on the subject.

There’s nothing objective about it.

Moving on from that, however, who can we drop out of the running (from the popular choices)?

I’d say it’s safe to remove Sylvanas and Rexxar from the equation. Sylvanas might want the job as a means to further her own agenda, but we’ve effectively done that with Garrosh and I don’t believe for a second the other Horde leaders would trust her. Rexxar, put simply, is too remote. I know people like him as a character, but I just don’t see a good argument for him.

The next to remove is Thrall.

Objectively, it’d be terrible for the story. The World Shaman (and one of the most powerful beings on Azeroth) would effectively kill any Alliance development because they’d be given no real leave to disagree with him. He laid down the mantle of Warchief because he couldn’t be two things at once, and it’s relatively inconceivable that he’d lay down his shamanistic mantle now that he’s taken it up. From the players perspective, it’d also mean that two expansions in a row would effectively be about him and, frankly, it’d be stupid for Blizzard to pull the chain on it. From Thrall’s viewpoint… I’m not sure he’ll easily forgive himself for Garrosh, the character is something of a martyr.

Baine and Vol’jin aren’t no-hopers, but there’s not a lot to suggest that they’d be in the running overall. Baine needs time to get a grip on leading his own people, never mind the Horde as a whole, and Vol’jin (though I love him) isn’t really in the leadership mold.

I brought her up, so it’s time for me to discount Magatha Grimtotem. It’s a fantasy of mine, but it’s safe to say it’s not going to be her. Revan Grimtotem? A friend of mine mentioned it, but no, not in a million years – barely anybody even knows who he is.

So, if we’re objective about the MoP story arc, we’re left with Lor’themar.

There are other considerations, of course, so let’s get onto them now.

And you people keep forgetting the orcs will be leaderless, and as the vast majority of forces in the horde are Orcs, why in gods name do you keep parading the idea that someone who isn't an orc going to be able to lead them? What, are the orcs going to cheer then a blood elf tells them what to do?

There’s no canon source to suggest the orcs are the most numerous in the Horde, and after the Siege of Orgrimmar there’s going to be even less of them.

That said, the first point is true; the orcs will need a leader.

Who do we have?

For me, we’re looking at Thrall (but he’s discounted for reasons above) and Varok Saurfang as the most obvious icons. Thrall should already be discounted for reasons above, but we should also add that there’s literally no way the World Shaman would be subservient to another authority in the Horde he created. Saurfang hasn’t been seen much since late Wrath, but he’s back in Razor Hill for 5.4 and he’s ready to cleave. There’s no real way to discount Saurfang and there are many reasons to favour him, so let’s keep that in mind.

Next up we have General Nazgrim – he’s a boss, but is it confirmed that he dies? His development since WotLK certainly seems to have been a steady rise through the ranks. The audio also seems to imply that Warlord Zaela survives the raid and is repentant about her actions – that puts her in the running, and her being female is also an interesting story arc. After that we have rank outsiders such as Garona Halforcen or Nazgrel, but I include them purely to be systematic. They’re not going to be getting the job.

Just about lastly, we come up with Eitrigg. He’s been an ever-present throughout the game, and is cut from the same cloth as Saurfang. In fact, so similar to Saurfang is he, we should discount him because Saurfang is simply the superior choice of the two.

So for leading the orcs we’re left with Varok Saurfang, General Nazgrim (assuming he survives) and Warlord Zaela. The popular choice would be Saurfang, and he’s certainly the only one capable of directly relating to the Alliance, but my personal favourite is Zaela.

Would it ever work the other way, what if a gnome took over stormwind, would a gnome understand humans the same as an actual human would? How about the trolls, why don't we have sylvanas take over the trolls as a race, because I'm so sure she'll understand the trolls...

Garrosh understood neither the trolls nor the Forsaken; in fact, let’s not forget that even Thrall’s judgement was called into question regarding the undead by Drek’thar. In any event, the racial leaders are there for exactly this purpose unless you're implying Varian Wrynn acutely understands the gnomes?

I thought not.

You are, literally, left with just the two options. You might hate hearing it, you might try and deny it, but you don't have anything else.

For the Warchief of the Horde, assuming the title stays, we’re left with one; and it’s neither of the two you mention.

For the leader of the orcs, we’re left with three (and only 2 if Nazgrim is killed).

I should wrap this post up, however, by pointing out that there’ll be nothing objective about it.

Metzen will find a way to shoehorn in Thrall.

Hey ho.

[catablitz]

Cannot think of anyone more suitable lore, profile and background wise than the High Overlord.

[Gamevizier]

why does everyone think Horde is going to have a new warchief? maybe they'll form a council or something. it'll be much more effective than having a warchief who has a final say in everything.

[Doombringer]

I'm rooting for Saurfang, but CDev seems to be hung up on the whole "we can't have an 'old' leader" ...

Which is completely ignorant of the fact that A) Saurfang, Cairne, and hell even Eitrigg are pretty spry for their age (they're physically fit and mentally capable), and B) With age comes wisdom and experience, and those are exactly what a leader needs.

[Deleted]

I'm rooting for Saurfang, but CDev seems to be hung up on the whole "we can't have an 'old' leader" ...

Have they (devs) actually said that? I thought that was more of playerbase opinion than dev preference. If anything ol'Saurie would have wisdom brought by age and experience compared to other candidates. Good choice. Plus the fact that he's not a troll, or elf.

[Doombringer]

Metzen will find a way to shoehorn in Thrall.

Hey ho.

I think this is too obvious, and even Metzen realizes it. It's more likely that CDev will deliberately work to exclude Thrall, simply to get him out of the limelight. The fans generally feel Thrall is "done" and his story is sidelined after Cata.

He's back in MoP simply because he must return to set this right -- you will note however the writers have severely downplayed his involvement. He's not leading the rebellion. He's not carving a path of fire and jagged earth up to Garrosh's doorstep... he "lends a hand" on the Echo Isles (we do most of the work) and then, aloud, ponders if he should even be fighting his fellow orcs. Later, he continues to show he is pained by what is happening (Horde versus Horde) and that he is going to Orgrimmar, alone, to parlay with any orcs not currently sipping the Garrosh Flavor-Aid. He's definitely not psyching us up.

In my personal opinion, yes, I think Thrall should be doing all of these things... he should be more active, more fist-pumping, because he is a Horde hero. He should go out with a bang. But the writers again seem to be tucking him into bed. and he's very reluctant right now to make any bold moves to retake the Horde. Maybe that will change in SoO and he'll be there rallying the players and NPCs, but I somehow doubt it. We'll see Mopey Thrall in his robes (not the Doomplate) grumble at Garrosh during the final fight, become disabled, and then we have to clean up. Heck, I wouldn't be very surprised if Thrall handed the Doom-gear down to the next Warchief after SoO -- something that significant would truly send Thrall down Retirement Alley.

[Nohara]

My guess is that a close ally of Garrosh will take over the Horde, and that a part of the Horde Splits of to join a third faction, formed by the Darkspear, joined by the Kirin'Tor, as Jaina also splits of from the Alliance as Alliance and Horde continue with a devastating war. Dalaran will move to theramore as the capitol of this 3rd faction, which will be a neutral faction to Alliance and Horde.

[Thage]

When you think about it, Thrall probably feels like he failed the Horde on a very fundamental and important level: his successor, the one he hand-picked against advice from one of his closest friends, has become a threat to Azeroth on-par with Blackhand of old, if not worse. He turned the Horde into the very thing Thrall tried so hard to convince them they were better than being. I think Thrall takes this civil war very personally because it was his choice to put Garrosh on the throne when he knew Garrosh wasn't ready for that sort of political and military power, his choice to leave Garrosh in power even after he was forced to confront his turmoil over the choice, and his choice to leave the Horde to focus on his shamanistic duties. Those choices have lead to Garrosh seizing more and more power and pushing the other leaders into bloody revolt. It's for that reason, that feeling that he failed in his duties to the Horde on that most fundamental level, that I doubt Thrall will become Warchief again.