Help with a tank.

[Zirhark]

I'll keep it simple it simple. I'm a healer in a newer heroic 25 man guild. We downed Heroic Jin'rokh last night (hurrah) but I feel my tanks are taking an absurd amount of damage. They seem to drop faster then a girl's panties on prom night. But I know next to nothing on Warrior or Monk tanking. I've been healing most hard modes since Ulduar and I haven't seen tanks collapse this fast. So I hate to ask someone to sift through logs to help me out, but it seems to me the warrior is wasting rage on heroic strike and not enough shield block and has poor cooldown management and the monk seems to have trouble keeping up shuffle, but I have no idea. Anyway here are the links to their armories and to the logs. I'll just link the logs that contain our kill, which is after 5 pulls. You're looking for DTank and Zipples in the logs, you'll notice in our kill Dtank went down 3 separate times. Thanks guys! I could be very wrong and just not realize how much more damage tanks are taking and step up the healing on them, but this all seems incredibly odd.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...pples/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dtank/advanced

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=69465


PS. I know this is the warrior forums but there isn't any real "tanking" forum here so if anyone has input on the monk tank as well I'd love to hear it, but it's our warrior tank that died so much so i'm putting this here.Thanks.

[Tarazet]

It's 25 man heroic raiding.. the bosses hit really hard. It's up to you to keep up with the extra damage. The monk's damage taken looks high on the sheet, but as another Monk on this board pointed out to me, that's due to the way Staggered damage appears in WoL. If you look at his Healing Taken, that'll give you a better idea of what's actually going on. Looking at buff uptimes, it seems to me the Monk is doing an excellent job, but I'm not super familiar with Warrior tanking. The Shield Block uptime seems too low at 10% and no Shield Barriers. What exactly is he spending his Rage on?

And why, in his Arms gear, does he have 14% Hit? @.@

[Zirhark]

ah crude, looks like he switched outta tank gear. Yes the Monk tanked just seemed to tank a decent amount of damage but he wasn't the one that kept dieing over and over.

0.o i have no idea why he has so much hit. Looks like he's reforged away as much hit as he can but ya.

[Deleted]

Yours warrior tank plays it really bad. You are right about heroic strikes and shield blocks. He used HS 45 times (23 was free) which means he wasted 22x 30 rage (this is 11 shield blocks without counting rage regeneration from critical blocks). Dunno about his gear, he is in arms on armory.

edit: and he must use Shield Slam on CD, 28 Shield Slams on fight 5:40 is really low. Around 60 is number is supposed to be.

[Valech]

My first finding is, that he uses Shockwave at Jin rohk. Won´t mitigate damage, but he really should use dragon´s roar on some encounters like Jin rohk hero.
Also, if I´m reading this right, he used Spell reflection and Mass Spellreflection at that fight. Why? And assuming he has 2piece bonus, he only used victory rush ONCE, thus, didn´t use the 2 piece bonus at all.

[Deleted]

Here are my logs from my most recent Jin'rokh heroic kill, while i out gear him by ~15 ilvls as you can see my shield block uptime is a good 20% higher than his, and i used shield barrier a few times when i had excessive rage. He also only used his trinket once when could've used it twice. As for his 2 piece he used it 6 times as its called "Victorious" not Victory Rush. He enrage uptime was pretty appalling aswell, might be due to not using zerker rage as often as he should of, i believe he could've of used about 10 times during the fight, whilst this doesnt really help with mitigation he should really try and keep it up as often as possible imo.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=946&e=1203

Edit: Also it's kinda obvious but his dps is damn woeful lol 31k dps as a tank when you get anywhere between 120-200k vengeance on heroic fights? That's not right.

[Deleted]

42 heroic strikes with only 11 of them being free. Not using avatar / bloodbath at all? Berserker rage used 2 times during a fight that lasted 5:40 (30 sec cd).

He is just pressing the wrong buttons at all times, either he's used to some old habit of using heroic strike or he's just clueless about how his class actually works.

If he doesn't know his basic rotations, i doubt he has any idea about cooldown usage. "Use something when you're at 10% health" is probably the logic behind last stand / SW,

Tell him to think about what he is using and why, a heroic strike should never be used if Ultimatum has not procced. Using rage for defensive purposes is the core for his class.

Rebind basic abilities and cooldowns for easy usage, learn how to chain them instead of dumping them at the same time (im just assuming he does this). Bind heroic strike to something uncomfortable to get rid of the habit of pressing it (like alt+4 or something, just dont bind it to an easily spammable button).

[Deleted]

I'll keep it simple it simple. I'm a healer in a newer heroic 25 man guild. We downed Heroic Jin'rokh last night (hurrah) but I feel my tanks are taking an absurd amount of damage. They seem to drop faster then a girl's panties on prom night. But I know next to nothing on Warrior or Monk tanking. I've been healing most hard modes since Ulduar and I haven't seen tanks collapse this fast. So I hate to ask someone to sift through logs to help me out, but it seems to me the warrior is wasting rage on heroic strike and not enough shield block and has poor cooldown management and the monk seems to have trouble keeping up shuffle, but I have no idea. Anyway here are the links to their armories and to the logs. I'll just link the logs that contain our kill, which is after 5 pulls. You're looking for DTank and Zipples in the logs, you'll notice in our kill Dtank went down 3 separate times. Thanks guys! I could be very wrong and just not realize how much more damage tanks are taking and step up the healing on them, but this all seems incredibly odd.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...pples/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dtank/advanced

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=69465


PS. I know this is the warrior forums but there isn't any real "tanking" forum here so if anyone has input on the monk tank as well I'd love to hear it, but it's our warrior tank that died so much so i'm putting this here.Thanks.

I prefer to use Unending Rage for the additional buffer to the rage cap. It's great for fights like Ji-Kun where you can get a high-abrosb Shield Barrier without having too much downtime for block to be back up for the Talon rakes, especially if their gear isn't that great.

He should be using Dragon Roar on fights like Ji-Kun. No benefit to shockwave at all here.

Furthermore, looking at his logs he didn't use shield barrier on your Ji Kun kill......once.....that's REALLY bad. Essentially he's taking the full whack of those Talon rakes, which deal high damage that he could easily be mitigating. Also, he used abilities suchas as Berserker Rage once, suggesting he's not fully aware of his rotation.

[Deleted]

Not correct, Talon Rake is blockable. You should primarily go for block as it is guaranteed damage reduction, dumping the rest of the rage into barrier of course

I very rarely find myself using Barrier frankly, only when the damage on myself is extremely high and it will provide more mitigation than block for something like Ra-Den

Berserker rage and the other points raised however are totally valid and it would just appear to me as if he hasn't spent the time to learn the class and become aware of the abilities he should be using
Wasting rage on HS is so inefficient its not even funny, 2 HS = one Shield Block for essentially 3 white swings worth of damage. This not only cripples your survivability but your DPS as well

[Deathzero]

Alright as I am the monk tank I will bump this. The main issue right now is both Dtank's rotation. I need to know where to fix this. I think part of the issue is I put way too much pressure on him as I haven't been utilizing a vengeance dump macro. I am going to go ahead and try that. But I would like to know where to go to help him with his rotation and fix it. My shuffle uptime is terrible cause I have been letting him taunt and esc standing there since sometimes I pull threat just using an expel harm to gain a chi or b/o kick to get shuffle back up.

I know nothing about warriors and if the mmo post at the top is a good place to start ill look there. But I would like to fix these issues this week.

[Shiinji]

Safeguard other tank for veng + taunt = fast veng!! He should be using sblock more. Never hs unless it's free shield slam on cd thunder clap for debuff demo shout should be used often since it has a low cd. Not much to say otherwise for 25h he should be hit/exp capped then stacking stam. Didn't look at his armory :/

[Delath]

Safeguard other tank for veng + taunt = fast veng!! He should be using sblock more. Never hs unless it's free shield slam on cd thunder clap for debuff demo shout should be used often since it has a low cd. Not much to say otherwise for 25h he should be hit/exp capped then stacking stam. Didn't look at his armory :/

Safeguard is indeed a good way to build some vengeance prior to tank swap. Just be careful how you use it. For example on Jin'Rokh, safeguarding while u stand in the pool with some leftover stacks is a very bad idea since u will then eat a debuffed melee hit inside the pool. Same goes for swaps on e.g. Ji'kun at a certain number of rake stacks. If you safeguard too early, you eat the rake.

Generally speaking he should always try to have DR+BB up for tank swaps since that gives pretty good threat as long as they are used with at least one melee swing worth of vengeance.

For Jin'Rokh tank swaps: any tank dps from standing in the pool while other tank stands outside, especially soon after a swap, will result in pulling agro unless the agro generation of the tank outside pool is a lot higher.

[Deathzero]

For Jin'Rokh tank swaps: any tank dps from standing in the pool while other tank stands outside, especially soon after a swap, will result in pulling agro unless the agro generation of the tank outside pool is a lot higher.

I am never standing in pool. I pulled aggro expelling harm last week on this.

[Zili]

For while I agree with what everyone here is saying I just want to point out that one of the reasons he has an absurdly high amount of Heroic Strikes might be due to the use of Glyph of Insight which he currently has on. Tho he really SHOULD use his Shield Block/Barrier

[Deleted]

Alright as I am the monk tank I will bump this. The main issue right now is both Dtank's rotation. I need to know where to fix this. I think part of the issue is I put way too much pressure on him as I haven't been utilizing a vengeance dump macro. I am going to go ahead and try that. But I would like to know where to go to help him with his rotation and fix it. My shuffle uptime is terrible cause I have been letting him taunt and esc standing there since sometimes I pull threat just using an expel harm to gain a chi or b/o kick to get shuffle back up.

I know nothing about warriors and if the mmo post at the top is a good place to start ill look there. But I would like to fix these issues this week.

While there isnt really a set rotation, its's just more of a priority list which is as follows: Swords on Board procced Shield Slam > Shield Slam > Revenge > Commanding/Battle Shout > Devastate. He should only use Heroic Strike when he's got the proc up or as he has the Glyph of Incite use the 3 charges he gets from that. He should then dump probably all of his rage into mitigation mainly Shield Block unless tanking a spell heavy damage fight or absurd amount of vengeance.

[Deleted]

I would personally put Devastate above shouts as you should quite easily be able to maintain maximum shield block uptime without needing shouts

Get him to remove the Ji-Kun trinket and go double stamina
Get him to change to Dragon Roar
Personal preference but enraged regeneration in a 25m environment is pretty weak and I would suggest a fire and forget ability like second wind instead

[Deleted]

I would personally put Devastate above shouts as you should quite easily be able to maintain maximum shield block uptime without needing shouts

But if devastate is above shouts you would never use your shout. I do tend to delay my shout a short while for when I know a big hit is coming in so I can pool up rage quickly, but this is only a maximum 10 second delay. Otherwise I stick to the usual SS > Revenge > Shout > Deva

[Deleted]

You're quite right hence why I don't ever use my shouts unless needed

[Deleted]

That seems alien to me! All the rage the better as far as I an concerned.

[Deleted]

Well, I'm getting far more rage than I can use on shield block so its pretty much wasted to use shouts = s As the Devastate damage far outweighs the only other use for the rage, being Heroic Strikes