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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    No rotation has ever been "difficult", please dont joke with that. Also maybe warlock got more buttons, but warrior tank (was my role) didnt get more buttons than vanilla, it even lost some. Id even say gameplay wise MOP tanking is by FAR less exciting than vanilla tanking (and I tested a private server recently, so no its not nostalgia or whatever term you haters come up with).
    I remember vanilla tanking perfectly. Spam heroic strike as fast as you can. Shield slam > Revenge> Sunder> Sunder> Keep shield block on CD so you dont get crushed. Change to battle stance to do thunder clap if no one else in the group is doing it. Make a stance dance macro to break fears. Congrats, you just mastered warrior in 2 minutes. All while doing a worthless amount of dps. (probably 50 dps.)

    That is more fun? I did that for vanilla, tbc, and the first half of WotLK. Tanking on my monk now is infinitely more fun.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    Make my list appear longer ? You know you could give me 5 minutes and I can add you 20 more lines easily. Would it be useful ? Nah not really. Some players played classic and were good enough to enjoy it, some didn't, thats just the way it is. I'm not here to convince some LFR Heroes with crap gems and enchants that the game was better before. How could I ? They didnt play it.
    How could you possibly know that?

    Oh yeah, you can't. You're generalising and creating a strawman to attack. Typical.

    I played during TBC. It wasn't as special as people make out - it was fun, but no moreso then it still is. People such as yourself have just convinced yourself that it was better to cover up the fact you've grown bored of a game you're unable to quit. Which is rather sad.

  3. #323
    *shrug* Elite mobs outside weren't particularly difficult, assuming they were appropriate level. If they weren't, then... you can still go after stuff above your level if you want more challenge. Talents have been no-brainer choices since Wrath, and I make more changes to my spec on my Brewmaster now then I ever did on my paladin during Wrath/Cata or my Hunter during Cata. Dungeons aren't particularly challenging atm, though that's generally a combination of experienced players and heirloom gear.

    Why is having spells give some indication as to how they're used a bad thing? The tooltips generally won't give you the best rotation, merely an acceptable one... and I don't think it hurts the game to give beginners a stronger foundation without needing to resort to fansites.

    (I could get on a whole rant about how anyone who uses forums or fansites for ANYTHING, including learning more about your class, has no right to complain about the game being dumbed down... how when I wanted a challenge back in the old console days, it wasn't just "turn up the difficulty", it was "let's see if I can do this entire game, without any upgrades, without any external help or hints.")

    Getting gold faster does not equate to the game being dumbed down. It means some vendor items are easier to acquire, but it also leads to inflation... but then, that might be too complex a topic for this thread.

    Raids being cleared quickly isn't a measure of difficulty. By that logic, we could gate heroic mode and limit to only 4 hours a week, and that would automatically make them harder and more cerebral (or just more annoying with an arbitrary difficulty.)

    ... and that's the real kicker. Most of these complaints aren't against things that make the game easier from a skill or intellectual standpoint, only more convenient from a time/gold sink standpoint. I have to wonder how many people still complaining about the game being dumbed down are just annoyed that they can't ascertain an automatic and gigantic advantage through time alone these days.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    I remember vanilla tanking perfectly. Spam heroic strike as fast as you can. Shield slam > Revenge> Sunder> Sunder> Keep shield block on CD so you dont get crushed. Change to battle stance to do thunder clap if no one else in the group is doing it. Make a stance dance macro to break fears. Congrats, you just mastered warrior in 2 minutes. All while doing a worthless amount of dps. (probably 50 dps.)

    That is more fun? I did that for vanilla, tbc, and the first half of WotLK. Tanking on my monk now is infinitely more fun.
    Oh yeah. A lot of Prot Warriors bound Heroic Strike to the mousewheel and just spammed it constantly. Great game design! I'm sure I wore out keys tanking back then.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    How could you possibly know that?

    Oh yeah, you can't. You're generalising and creating a strawman to attack. Typical.

    I played during TBC. It wasn't as special as people make out - it was fun, but no moreso then it still is. People such as yourself have just convinced yourself that it was better to cover up the fact you've grown bored of a game you're unable to quit. Which is rather sad.
    I still greatly enjoy doing pvp, twinking old content or even playing AH. No reason to quit the game for me. So I fail to understand what is sad about that.

    But yeah, every other aspect of the game is crap to me. I quit heroic raiding after DS, one of the worst raid ever made. Oh btw, I used to do it in pugs. Before nerfs.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    Let's take bets on when the OP landed his first Ra-den kill.
    Probably around April 23, 2015 in T17 LFR gear "Games too easy guys, 1 shot THE MIGHTY RA-DEN!"

  7. #327
    Just becuase you pay for the game doesnt mean your entitled to all of it. Just becuase you pay for a sub doesnt mean you should automatically get to see the hardest difficulty boss with no effort. Everyone should have to work thier way to earn these things, not get them handed to them. Want to see a raid boss? go faceroll LFR. Normal nor heroic should ever get nerfed so people can experience the content. If they want to experience it they can go put in the time effort and work that the people that have allready cleared it have. So what if you have a family or a job. I did as well but managed to raid 6 nights a week for 4-5 hours each night. Just becuase you dont want to find to time to put in the effort doesnt mean a god damn thing should be gifted or handed to you. Plays nowadays feel they are entitled to everything in the game code cus they bought it. FYI WoW isnt the only game with this problem.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    I remember vanilla tanking perfectly. Spam heroic strike as fast as you can. Shield slam > Revenge> Sunder> Sunder> Keep shield block on CD so you dont get crushed. Change to battle stance to do thunder clap if no one else in the group is doing it. Make a stance dance macro to break fears. Congrats, you just mastered warrior in 2 minutes. All while doing a worthless amount of dps. (probably 50 dps.)

    That is more fun? I did that for vanilla, tbc, and the first half of WotLK. Tanking on my monk now is infinitely more fun.
    What's the problem with doing 0 dps as a tank ? If you want big numbers, just play a dd class, quite simple. Also yeah, I do find vanilla tanking more exciting than cata or even worse mop tanking. At least at cata launches, keeping aggro at pull wasnt that easy with top end damage dealers bursting like mad. Hell MOP was so awful that I didnt even bother with it and just scrapped PVE completly as I will not play as dd or healer cause I think its terribly boring.

  9. #329
    It's funny to see that people are so defensive about this. I am not saying the OP is completely right but you can't seriously say the game hasn't been "dumbed down" and then say it's just for convenience.

  10. #330
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It's funny to see that people are so defensive about this. I am not saying the OP is completely right but you can't seriously say the game hasn't been "dumbed down" and then say it's just for convenience.
    Yeah It's been dumbed down but to say It's god mode enabled omfg ez mode I want a challenge when the OP hasn't even linked his armory yet means hes full of shit that's what pisses people off.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    I remember vanilla tanking perfectly. Spam heroic strike as fast as you can. Shield slam > Revenge> Sunder> Sunder> Keep shield block on CD so you dont get crushed. Change to battle stance to do thunder clap if no one else in the group is doing it. Make a stance dance macro to break fears. Congrats, you just mastered warrior in 2 minutes. All while doing a worthless amount of dps. (probably 50 dps.)

    That is more fun? I did that for vanilla, tbc, and the first half of WotLK. Tanking on my monk now is infinitely more fun.
    Except you are now unable to make a mistake and I don't give a shit about how much damage I do. And active mitigation? Would be great if it actually meant something besides when you are raiding normal or heroic. That's the problem. It mattered if you were able or unable to generate enough threat but AM doesn't really matter. With a reasonable healer (who is not afking etc) you can do all heroics without using any mitigation.

    Shieldwalling every few minutes instead of chosing a good time to use it. Lower CD only means it is more forgiving when you make a mistake. And I like to be able to make a mistake because then my good decisions have more meaning, me trying to play better has more meaning.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It's funny to see that people are so defensive about this. I am not saying the OP is completely right but you can't seriously say the game hasn't been "dumbed down" and then say it's just for convenience.
    You say "dumbed down" I say "accessible" and there's nothing wrong with that.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    You say "dumbed down" I say "accessible" and there's nothing wrong with that.
    And I say it's accesible to morons and that's make WoW a Fast Food in MMO World.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    You say "dumbed down" I say "accessible" and there's nothing wrong with that.
    In WotLK the word accessible meant the removal of attunements and ability to quickly catch up in gear. Players did not complain that only a minority killed LK and Blizzard has happy with the accessibility of the content. The majority just didnt care to raid. ToC was very PuG friendly and the majority still did not participate in it despite how easy it was and how quick most pugs could clear it being comparable to an LFR group of today.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    I remember vanilla tanking perfectly. Spam heroic strike as fast as you can. Shield slam > Revenge> Sunder> Sunder> Keep shield block on CD so you dont get crushed. Change to battle stance to do thunder clap if no one else in the group is doing it. Make a stance dance macro to break fears. Congrats, you just mastered warrior in 2 minutes. All while doing a worthless amount of dps. (probably 50 dps.)

    That is more fun? I did that for vanilla, tbc, and the first half of WotLK. Tanking on my monk now is infinitely more fun.
    Vanilla tanking was more fun for me because it was an actual challenge to aoe tank mobs and single target wasn't that easy as well, if you slacked a dps could pull threat from you easily. These days it takes no effort to tank.

    I don't know why you care about DPS as a Tank either, it's all about TPS meter. Or at least was. I also used demo shout and cleave as tank and I didn't use a stance dance macro, that was for poor lazy players. You also didn't break fears with the stance dancing, you prevented them. If you got feared, you fucked up and had to wait till the fear ended.

    I miss threat being an important part of a fight, I always liked the Princess fight in AQ40, where the entire raid had to watch their threat, as the second tank had to generate enough threat to take over tanking. Now it's just done with a simple taunt far too much. I remember having to use rage pots for it.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2013-06-25 at 10:02 AM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by wredzik View Post
    And I say it's accesible to morons and that's make WoW a Fast Food in MMO World.
    And? Why does it bother you that someone not as good as you can play the game?
    Last edited by Mooboy; 2013-06-25 at 09:55 AM.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  17. #337
    The Lightbringer malletin's Avatar
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    WoW have always been the 'dumbed down' MMO ever since it was released, it merely continued to be dumbed down each expansion because that was the best choice when it comes to being an actual business and making big bucks. And they tried making the game more challenging in Cataclysm and since that failed massively i'd say the safest bet is continue making a game where anyone regardless of skill level can get something done endgame even if only LFR.
    Last edited by malletin; 2013-06-25 at 10:01 AM.
    "any man shaving for a woman should relinquish ownership of his testicles aswell"

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    No rotation has ever been "difficult", please dont joke with that.
    If you want to play your class at a high level it is difficult and certainly insanely difficult compared to what was necessary in Vanilla.
    The combat log tools back then weren't even accurate to measure your DPS.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    What's the problem with doing 0 dps as a tank ? If you want big numbers, just play a dd class, quite simple. Also yeah, I do find vanilla tanking more exciting than cata or even worse mop tanking. At least at cata launches, keeping aggro at pull wasnt that easy with top end damage dealers bursting like mad. Hell MOP was so awful that I didnt even bother with it and just scrapped PVE completly as I will not play as dd or healer cause I think its terribly boring.
    Mop tanking boring?!?!???

    Tanking is the most interesting it's ever been, threat was never an interesting mechanic and hasn't been in anyway challenging since BC if then (I didn't play back then) but never had sny problems in WotLK or Cata.

    The new active mitigation tank model is by far the best thing Blizz have ever done to tanking. Tanks now have real control over there own survival pre Mop we'd just pop cd's for the big dmg phases then have to rely on the healers the rest of the time.
    What buttons a tank mashes really matters now it's not just get aggro at the pull then roll face over keyboard after the first 30sec like in WotLK and Cata.

    Mop tank dps is maybe a little high but it's yet another thing to think of as a tank, before tanks could do half there theoretical dps and it'd have next to no impact on if the boss died, if tanks slack that much now you'd best have some damn good dpsers in the raid to kill any of the harder bosses.

  20. #340
    I feel like boss mechanics and class rotations have become much more complex.

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