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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    Then you revert to an alternative and do something else challenging aka H mode heroic wtfever.
    No we quit the game and find something better to do.

  2. #362
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    No we quit the game and find something better to do.
    Then why complain shit is easy in the first place when you can't do the hard shit n.n aka OP

  3. #363
    The difficulty at the top of the game (heroic modes etc.) has been high for some time and is reasonably consistent now.

    LFR is meant to be "dumbed down" and is there so everyone gets to experience the lore & content equally (which is great 'cause we all pay for it equally).

    The dumbing down has happened in 5-mans mostly. There's no more requirement to CC mobs or be careful of patrols. There's no complex dungeon layouts like with BRD. Of course there's also almost no reason to do 5-mans at all anymore which is a shame considering how much design time will have gone into them. I always felt that it was in 5-mans that player skill was most evident. It's a place where you can't hide behind 16 other DPS players or be dragged along by 5 other healers.

    I realise that challenge modes were meant to become this but with no material reward they were never going to take off.

    In the next expansion I'd like to see 5-mans that rival/surpass raids for difficulty. They could have their own progression like with the Icecrown dungeons back in WotLK.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    Then why complain shit is easy in the first place when you can't do the hard shit n.n
    I'm not complaining that things are easy. I am complaining that welfare robs people of an incentive to actually raid and they miss out on what made this game great in the first place.

  5. #365
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I'm not complaining that things are easy. I am complaining that welfare robs people of an incentive to actually raid and they miss out on what made this game great in the first place.
    I meant the OP silly haha the welfare shit started in BC is the ironic part which was well known to be the Golden age of raiding or some shit.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    I meant the OP silly haha the welfare shit started in BC is the ironic part which was well known to be the Golden age of raiding or some shit.
    It wasn't as bad as this. At least in TBC players had to group up and make friends to get their welfare gear.

  7. #367
    ITT: Adding more casual friendly options while making heroic raiding the hardest it's ever been = dumbing down.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I'm not complaining that things are easy. I am complaining that welfare robs people of an incentive to actually raid and they miss out on what made this game great in the first place.
    Children finger paint in kindergarten, so there's no incentive for adults to take the time to make artistic masterpieces. High school students write 5-page essays on their favorite part of The Great Gatsby, so there's no incentive to write a doctoral thesis on F. Scott Fitzgerald. Kraft sells microwavable macaroni and cheese, so all Italian restaurants are obsolete because there's no incentive for 'actual' pasta. My neighbor has dandelions all over his crappy lawn, so there's no incentive for me to continue to maintain my actual flower garden.

    And so on. There will always be other people who are inferior to you in a given field and produce inferior results for lesser compensation. If you think that justifies you abandoning all these fields, you're going to have a VERY unfulfilled life. If you're petty, at least remember that you'll get better loot from the higher raids; if you can manage a more measured response to the whole different-levels-of-raiding concept, be happy you are talented enough to raid at a level these other people can't manage.

    Or, of course, quit the game and claim it was because you're too good and there's no incentive to, you know, challenge yourself and have fun.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    If you're petty, at least remember that you'll get better loot from the higher raids; if you can manage a more measured response to the whole different-levels-of-raiding concept, be happy you are talented enough to raid at a level these other people can't manage.

    Or, of course, quit the game and claim it was because you're too good and there's no incentive to, you know, challenge yourself and have fun.
    The gear in heroic raids is the same only with a lower item level. It's not unique anymore. It doesn't make you more powerful in the whole game like it did before.

    Would you work if they didn't pay you?

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    People have answered this question many times before but for some reason you refuse to listen.

    It's impossible to do something when no one else wants to do it.
    what a load of bullshit
    just looking at the raid forum on the US site has already a place dedicated to people looking for challenge mode groups or people for groups, then there is trade chat and open raid, heroic guilds are recruiting all the damn time

    you have to go out of your way to avoid the challenging content
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The gear in heroic raids is the same only with a lower item level. It's not unique anymore. It doesn't make you more powerful in the whole game like it did before.

    Would you work if they didn't pay you?
    and here is the real reason, it's not about challenge, it's about being a little extra special snowflake

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    what a load of bullshit
    just looking at the raid forum on the US site has already a place dedicated to people looking for challenge mode groups or people for groups, then there is trade chat and open raid, heroic guilds are recruiting all the damn time

    you have to go out of your way to avoid the challenging content
    Quoted from another topic:

    "Numbers don't lie. From Wowprogress.

    Number of guilds that have killed at least one normal raid boss by tier

    T11 - 86187
    T12 - 65516
    T13 - 62648
    T14 - 48615
    T15 - 28680"

  12. #372
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    It wasn't as bad as this. At least in TBC players had to group up and make friends to get their welfare gear.
    Spamming trade chat for 20-30 minutes isn't making friends.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The gear in heroic raids is the same only with a lower item level. It's not unique anymore. It doesn't make you more powerful in the whole game like it did before.

    Would you work if they didn't pay you?
    If my job was my life's passion and found it personally fulfilling and fun? More than most likely, yeah - I would. Or I would at least turn it into a hobby while I looked for another paying job (just to pay the bills really).
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The gear in heroic raids is the same only with a lower item level. It's not unique anymore. It doesn't make you more powerful in the whole game like it did before.

    Would you work if they didn't pay you?
    The 13 ilvl from lfr to normal can increase your dps by a lot.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    I meant the OP silly haha the welfare shit started in BC is the ironic part which was well known to be the Golden age of raiding or some shit.
    To be fair, it wasn't until sunwell when it was really something the community raged about. And they definitely raged. The Sunwell item badge vendor dropped T6 level stuff.

    That was basically the tail end of the "golden age of raiding".

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    what a load of bullshit
    just looking at the raid forum on the US site has already a place dedicated to people looking for challenge mode groups or people for groups, then there is trade chat and open raid, heroic guilds are recruiting all the damn time

    you have to go out of your way to avoid the challenging content

    and here is the real reason, it's not about challenge, it's about being a little extra special snowflake
    Got to agree with this... though I'll admit it's currently harder for the raiding guilds to raid simply due to players being spread out across servers.

    But challenge modes should have no problem with that forum up there. If players are linking their Battletag thingy then you could hook up with them at any time they like. Boom - then you're getting your challenge fix while everybody gets what they want. Everybody wins. ^_^

    I find it VERY ironic that it's the Hardcore Raiders who claim they want challenge and others are just "entitled crybabies" when they, themselves, are the ones who are crying that Blizzard isn't catering to them (entitled to have Blizz train good players) instead of themselves stepping up and TRAINING new raiders or looking for others.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    To be fair, it wasn't until sunwell when it was really something the community raged about. And they definitely raged. The Sunwell item badge vendor dropped T6 level stuff.

    That was basically the tail end of the "golden age of raiding".
    BC was FULL of welfare epics even from the get go. Craftable epics, heroic dungeons with epics, ARENA for weapon epics. Coming out of vanilla it was a BONANZA an embarassment of riches really. BC was such a care bear expansion it's not even funny.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by aere1985 View Post
    I realise that challenge modes were meant to become this but with no material reward they were never going to take off.
    I'm hoping Challenge Modes were a test model, and they'll make it more 'worthwhile' further down the line (just like Heroic Scenerios are now).

    I'd be perfectly okay if they switched up the 5 man model a bit more. Normal modes for leveling, heroic for max level that gives reasonable gear, and then challenge/elite mode for people who either don't want to raid, don't have enough people or time, or just fancy a change.

    Elite modes would be the current challenge modes, only untimed and having daily lockouts. You have to form a group from your own server or friendslist and travel there, and you get the same loot drops as Heroic only with a satchel with random current-tier LFR items dropping off the final boss.

    Pipe dreams, but hey.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Spamming trade chat for 20-30 minutes isn't making friends.
    Idk where did you get that idea but if you were a good player during tbc you didn't have to spam trade chat. Only baddies with no friends did.

    And baddies with no friends should not be able to do anything in a mmo.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    BC was FULL of welfare epics even from the get go. Craftable epics, heroic dungeons with epics, ARENA for weapon epics. Coming out of vanilla it was a BONANZA an embarassment of riches really. BC was such a care bear expansion it's not even funny.
    Its where the term 'Welfare Epics' came from, indeed. People are quick to forget, and also quick to forget how much moaning there was that the Wrath heroics only dropped a couple of epics off the final bosses!

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