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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Where did I complain about BC. You going to tell me you never saw people spamming for groups in trade chat in BC?


    Don't know about you but I have plenty to strive for yet. I haven't come close to killing all heroic bosses while they are current content.
    I got challenge modes to complete that I haven't even begun yet.


    What were you striving for before that you can't now?
    Most players have nothing left to strive for because they are content with LFR. If you can't see how that killed the game then I can't help you.

    I didn't need to spam trade chat because I had friends that I made by being social and good.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

  2. #402
    Banned Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Most players have nothing left to strive for because they are content with LFR. If you can't see how that killed the game then I can't help you.

    I didn't need to spam trade chat because I had friends that I made by being social and good.
    You didn't answer the question you only dodged it.

    What were you striving for before that you can't now?

  3. #403
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Class trainers sucked, old talent trees sucked and super hard low level mobs sucked. There are vanilla servers you know, it's fun for like 1 week followed by a long break.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    You didn't answer the question you only dodged it.

    What were you striving for before that you can't now?
    I can strive for a lot but it will amount to nothing if most players in the game don't care because they have welfare gear.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

  5. #405
    Banned Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I can strive for a lot but it will amount to nothing if most players in the game don't care because they have welfare gear.
    So the only thing you strive for is to look different by having better gear?

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I can strive for a lot but it will amount to nothing if most players in the game don't care because they have welfare gear.
    but why is it so important to you that other people care about your accomplishments in a video game?

  7. #407
    And people complain about the loss of an "RPG element".
    What RPG element is that ?
    Progression of a character where there are meaningful decisions which will have a lasting and permanent effect on the character and what they can and cannot access.
    Reputation tanking can be reversed in many cases, you can change your race, faction, realm, professions, specialisation.
    The only meaningful decision now is a single one, which class do you choose. And even then there is nothing to stop you rolling another character.

    An MMO simply cannot offer an RPG experience when other players have to be seeing the same thing you do.
    Single Player games offer a way better RPG experience, because the experience is yours only and not having to involve others at some other stage or with different decisions.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-06-25 at 05:42 PM.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    So the only thing you strive for is to look different by having better gear?
    Like it or not gear is a powerful incentive. That motivated a lot of players. Gear was unique and made players more powerful in all aspects of the game.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

  9. #409
    Banned Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Like it or not gear is a powerful incentive. That motivated a lot of players. Gear was unique and made players more powerful in all aspects of the game.
    Gear is. Standing in front of the mailbox stroking your EPEEN isn't.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Gear is. Standing in front of the mailbox stroking your EPEEN isn't.
    Success should be rewarded. At the moment the game rewards failure far more than success and it sends the wrong message to people. It teaches them that they can fail their way to success.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raego View Post
    but why is it so important to you that other people care about your accomplishments in a video game?
    You do realise that you are asking that question on a video game forum right?

    Gaming is a hobby like any other. Even if you don't see it that way that doesn't give you the right to take it away from others.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

  11. #411
    Mechagnome
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    The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

    I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Success should be rewarded. At the moment the game rewards failure far more than success and it sends the wrong message to people. It teaches them that they can fail their way to success.



    You do realise that you are asking that question on a video game forum right?

    Gaming is a hobby like any other. Even if you don't see it that way that doesn't give you the right to take it away from others.
    then why does it matter that other people, especially and mostly strangers, care about your hobby?
    to me gaming is even more than a hobby, and i put a lot of time and effort into video games and i always strive to get better and better at them, but i don't care what others think about my accomplishments, except for my close circle of friends who i play games with

  13. #413
    Banned Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Success should be rewarded. At the moment the game rewards failure far more than success and it sends the wrong message to people. It teaches them that they can fail their way to success.



    You do realise that you are asking that question on a video game forum right?

    Gaming is a hobby like any other. Even if you don't see it that way that doesn't give you the right to take it away from others.
    Success is rewarded. That is why you get the gear and achievements. I don't see how you figure Sitting afk so everyone can basque in your gloriousness is a reward.

    No body but you cares about what you are wearing. When you realize this you can get back to having fun in a game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 01:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

    I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.

    But they were(the problem). Sitting there screaming "I'm better than you scrubs" doesn't help anything or make anything better. It didn't make people want to raid it made people hate them.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

    I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.
    i agree with you on that matter, i was the same in tbc, i had fun playing the game and i did it without a single epic and the problem really are the people who care too much about other people having the same or better stuff than they have, but those people can be sadly found among the casual AND the hardcore players

  15. #415
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    Yes game has been dumbed down, its just a fact.

    -Outdoor elite mobs : deleted
    -Failsafe talent trees
    -Your rotation is in your spellbook
    -Boss mechanics are in dungeon journal
    -You can solo instances that are at your level or higher than your level depending on class
    -Its impossible to die to 2 mobs while you could die to that before
    -You dont need to socialize to do stuff, socials skills are only relevant for very high level of gaming
    -You get your mounts for a very low price and faster than before
    -You can get gold very easily even if you dont understand shit to the AH
    -Raids are cleaned faster than before, even on heroic mode
    -Dungeons are a faceroll aoe fest even at highest level
    -CC is inexistant in dungeons and totally useless
    -Being a good or a bad tank is the same thing, just mash aoe button and its ok, whereas tanking was hard when you couldn't AOE

    Well the only argument wow fanboys will tell you is
    -Heroics and challenge modes are harder

    Well let me tell you this
    Heroics and challenges modes are a low % of the game content. Basically everything is dumbed down to mentally challenged level except those two things (PVP is another matter). CHallenge isnt that difficult either, you can do it with 4ppl you know.

    Well on the heroicraid matter. YOu know players were a lot worse back then right? We had very few theorycrafting, very few boss guides, horrible items, horrible gearing progression (2 loots for 40ppl each boss?). So yea MC was basically very easy mechanics-wise, but it took a LOT more time to clean it than to clean a heroic raid. Hell my memory might be inexact but I have the feeling I raided that instance for 5+months before killing rag. Killing heroic nefa ? Idk i think it was 6 weeks?
    Then people always laugh at MC mechanics, but .. you know it wasnt the only pre-bc raid right? Altho bwl had loot pinata bosses (the drakes..), vael, razorgore, chromma or nefa were tough as hell, hence why vael was named the guild breaker. Well anyway you didnt play Vanilla so , too bad for you really, you missed the best video game ever made. But its not my problem.

    So, to sum up.
    Game has been dumbed down.
    Heroic raid or challenge mode dont change that fact.
    Game was better during pre-bc and tbc, if you dont agree : 1/you didnt play back then 2/you were one of the guys that didnt raid because you were useless
    I still enjoy PVP and running old content with twinks so I still play the game nonetheless.
    Less people leveling in the world (aka new players) equals not enough players to kill elite mobs so group quests were eliminated. Why would they keep quests that you had to kill once you had outleveled the zone?
    Failsafe Talents? You mean making talents mean something instead of googling Frost Mage spec and clicking the buttons? There was no skill in talent selection.
    The spellbook is a guide. Optimal character play is based on research and skill.
    Boss Mechanics are in DBM. They also appear on 15 different websites before the patch even goes live. Dungeon Journal keeps players in game rather than searching 3rd party websites.

    Whether you choose to socialize in a 5man, scenario, bg, etc is your issue. No one forces me to socialize in real life either or post on this forum. I choose to interact.
    Mounts: Eliminated a gold sink which directly screws the gold selling market. Win Win.
    Same thing for gold being made easier. With gold more easily obtainable it discourages people from buying gold.

    Raids are cleared at approximately the same rate. Cata got a slow start do the the holidays but other than that it's roughly the same. In WOTLK there were limited attempts to curb tossing your face at a boss for 12 hours straight but the average is still 3-4 weeks.

  16. #416
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    The problem isnt player standing in front of the mailbox in full epics. The problem is people who were mad jealous at them. Look how they ruind the game now with their LFR and crap heroic dungeons.

    I didn't play competitive in TBC, I had not a single problem with having shitty gear while some guys who did play a lot more than me were fully geared.
    No. The problem is the player standing ontop of the mailbox with some huge mount. That is the problem.

  17. #417
    the players dumbed down to much and the developers followed.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    No body but you cares about what you are wearing. When you realize this you can get back to having fun in a game.[COLOR=red]
    You definitely care, look how defensive you are about LFR. You're afraid of people devaluing and diminishing LFR and you, because your ego is fragile. You care about what real raiders are wearing, this is why you defend LFR and the welfare gear it gives, because you want your gear to be as good as theirs.

    But let me tell you something: People who put absolutely no effort into their character (you) shouldn't be wearing raid gear, it devalues it.

  19. #419
    Sound to me you are just leveling to max and calling it quits. If you decide that leveling and getting talents in the way is all you want out fo wow then I guess you have a point. But the game is as complex as you want it to be imo.

    You got people playing 2 hours a weeks all the way to world first guild punching in 12-18 hour play days for weeks. And everything in between. So I don´t agree the game is dumb down.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Raego View Post
    then why does it matter that other people, especially and mostly strangers, care about your hobby?
    to me gaming is even more than a hobby, and i put a lot of time and effort into video games and i always strive to get better and better at them, but i don't care what others think about my accomplishments, except for my close circle of friends who i play games with
    Effort should be rewarded otherwise it becomes pointless and everyone rots away.

    If people have nothing to strive for then there's nothing to bring them together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Success is rewarded.
    No it's not. Not like it was in vanilla, TBC and Wrath. People are running around in gear they don't deserve thinking they are awesome.

    They should strive to be better and that requires incentives, but there are no real incentives anymore. Plus cosmetic gear doesn't make you more powerful like high end gear did in the past.

    Remind yourself how much success is rewarded the next time you see someone in a tiered set they got by afking in LFR.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

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