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  1. #501
    Some of you spend your valuable hobby-time on researching your class and boss fights, training and getting experience to maximize your performance, searching through endless addons, level raid professions, trying to get used to changing your talents, specs, gemming from fight to fight etc. And when you finally manage to get that hc kill, you see a mediocre player with the same gear that dropped to you from Lei Shen, only it's on LFR colors and he/she brags about raiding just like you do. You get upset, I understand that.

    But you need to understand that these stuff you do does not feel "gamey" at all, feels more like work. It might be fun for you, but that frustration is not even close to that for the average gamer, who are much more crowded and let's not argue about that, you are a vocal minority among the online gaming community. Some of you guys may be so experienced in this "hardcore raiding" routine that it's possible none of this process feels hard, yet getting to the point where you stand is almost impossible for a casual gamer in terms of experince, in the game's current state. Nor anyone has the wish to get there, why would we? That's stressful, tiring and not even remotely fun.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to repeat the usual "get a life" speech, I won't generalize anyone for a simple hobby. But you do have heroic raiding, extra bosses, titles, mounts and all that adressing your small community, just suck it up, you won't get to be special in a fucking video game. Share your fun/game with the rest of the online gaming community.
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-06-26 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #502
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    The post by Daetur more or less sums up my feelings. And personally, I have no qualms about no longer needing to visit Thottbot to learn something, nor do I miss having to completely depend on other people in order to get anything done and have fun. This is supposed to be a game after all, not a community job.
    wrong, MMORPGs have always been about the community and helping to achieve common goals, sadly the state of this game is everyone wants to make it a solo game which really pisses me off.

  3. #503
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    wrong, MMORPGs have always been about the community and helping to achieve common goals, sadly the state of this game is everyone wants to make it a solo game which really pisses me off.

    Problem was the community WASN'T helping. So people were stuck and unable to progress because others didn't want to go back and do something they have already done.

    BTW that is YOUR opinion on what MMORPGS have been about. It doesn't make it right.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Problem was the community WASN'T helping. So people were stuck and unable to progress because others didn't want to go back and do something they have already done.

    BTW that is YOUR opinion on what MMORPGS have been about. It doesn't make it right.
    Pretty much you summed what usually happened with the restrictions that Classic and TBC had. Only the first 40 people who got things done was able to see the content. When others tried to join, they got a BF "DENIED!" in front of their faces because no one who already did the prior content wanted to run it again just for the sake of others.

    And tell you what: Why play a game that you PAY MONTHLY if you CAN'T SEE IT ALL???

    If WoW was F2P then I would understand partly the circumstances you were thrown at in Classic and TBC, but since it was not it felt unfair for those who couldn't see the content just because the arses on top of it didn't wanted to help!
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  5. #505
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    Many wrong posts here.

    WoW is not the easiest MMO. It is the most *accessible*. I think many people confuse these two. Accessible basically means, easy to learn. But WoW is extremely hard to master. The gap between a casual guild, a normal or even hardcore guild, and a world class guild is insanely large, and it's growing.

    And the "dumbing down" did not affect the true difficulty in the game, it only affected some of the more grindy stuff. There is nothing hard about doing some random attunement quest. There is nothing hard about grinding your weapon skill to 400. And so on...

  6. #506
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
    Pretty much you summed what usually happened with the restrictions that Classic and TBC had. Only the first 40 people who got things done was able to see the content. When others tried to join, they got a BF "DENIED!" in front of their faces because no one who already did the prior content wanted to run it again just for the sake of others.

    And tell you what: Why play a game that you PAY MONTHLY if you CAN'T SEE IT ALL???

    If WoW was F2P then I would understand partly the circumstances you were thrown at in Classic and TBC, but since it was not it felt unfair for those who couldn't see the content just because the arses on top of it didn't wanted to help!
    Basically that's what alot of the nostalgists cry about. They had all that power taken away from them and individual players don't need them anymore so they feel cheated and robbed. That doesn't mean I don't think their shouldn't be some social bonds in the game but the motives for many of the posters and players advocating for vanilla aren't altruistic by any means.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #507
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
    Pretty much you summed what usually happened with the restrictions that Classic and TBC had. Only the first 40 people who got things done was able to see the content. When others tried to join, they got a BF "DENIED!" in front of their faces because no one who already did the prior content wanted to run it again just for the sake of others.

    And tell you what: Why play a game that you PAY MONTHLY if you CAN'T SEE IT ALL???

    If WoW was F2P then I would understand partly the circumstances you were thrown at in Classic and TBC, but since it was not it felt unfair for those who couldn't see the content just because the arses on top of it didn't wanted to help!
    I must have been playing a different game for the past 8+ years, when I started raiding in BC my guild got me attuned, got me gear, ran stuff with me, showed me how to spec etc.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    I must have been playing a different game for the past 8+ years, when I started raiding in BC my guild got me attuned, got me gear, ran stuff with me, showed me how to spec etc.
    Thats probably because you're a decent person who was capable of playing nice with others and at a reasonably proficient level, which is unfortunately not most the player base these days hence the popularity of LFR

  9. #509
    WoW is not the easiest MMO. It is the most *accessible*. I think many people confuse these two. Accessible basically means, easy to learn. But WoW is extremely hard to master. The gap between a casual guild, a normal or even hardcore guild, and a world class guild is insanely large, and it's growing.
    This is the only person in the entire thread who has a fucking clue what he is talking about.

    And the "dumbing down" did not affect the true difficulty in the game, it only affected some of the more grindy stuff. There is nothing hard about doing some random attunement quest. There is nothing hard about grinding your weapon skill to 400. And so on...
    See my above comment...

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    I got it let me sum it up!

    - Luci - > Impending Doom - cure curse - Mind control adds - > Kill adds kill boss cure curse heal YAYYYYYY
    - Magmadar - > Enrage - > Must use tranq shot to cure Enrage - > Pref by two hunters - > Tank must use fear break abilities from time to time or use fear ward via ally
    - Ghehenas - > cure curse - > Run from rain of fire - > Kill adds - > Kill boss
    - Garr - > Set marks for each add - > Set tanks for each add - > Begin via Ice block mage or divine protection pally - > Kill a few adds - > Kill boss - > Don't kill all adds
    - Shazrah - > Go in a circle - > Cure curses - > One tank
    ~~ Set notes np Decursive press 1 button and everything is cleansed ~~
    - Baron Geddon ~ Living bomb move from people - > Cleanse magic burning mana thing - > Move from Hellfire thing - > Kill boss
    - Harbinger ~ Set tanks for each of the adds ~ Use MS effects via each add ~ Split each add so they don't heal ~ Kill all adds ~ Kill boss
    - Golemag ~ Set tanks via the two adds ~ Kill boss ~ Use as many as cool downs when earthquake happens ~
    - Executus ~ CC Healing adds ~ Set each tank for each add ~ Set 1 tank to tank Executus ~ Kill adds then healers ~ Loot
    - Ragnaros ~ Tank swap ~ Add phase kill adds ~ Repeat ~ Kill boss

    Did I miss something :O
    Those "boss" mechanics remind me of the "raid trash" mechanics in BWD from Tier11.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Some of you spend your valuable hobby-time on researching your class and boss fights, training and getting experience to maximize your performance, searching through endless addons, level raid professions, trying to get used to changing your talents, specs, gemming from fight to fight etc. And when you finally manage to get that hc kill, you see a mediocre player with the same gear that dropped to you from Lei Shen, only it's on LFR colors and he/she brags about raiding just like you do. You get upset, I understand that.

    But you need to understand that these stuff you do does not feel "gamey" at all, feels more like work. It might be fun for you, but that frustration is not even close to that for the average gamer, who are much more crowded and let's not argue about that, you are a vocal minority among the online gaming community. Some of you guys may be so experienced in this "hardcore raiding" routine that it's possible none of this process feels hard, yet getting to the point where you stand is almost impossible for a casual gamer in terms of experince, in the game's current state. Nor anyone has the wish to get there, why would we? That's stressful, tiring and not even remotely fun.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to repeat the usual "get a life" speech, I won't generalize anyone for a simple hobby. But you do have heroic raiding, extra bosses, titles, mounts and all that adressing your small community, just suck it up, you won't get to be special in a fucking video game. Share your fun/game with the rest of the online gaming community.
    I'd argue that if someone finds WoW ''heroic'' raiding ''hard'' to get into these days, said person must have severe mental problems.

    This has been my opinion since TBC to be honest.

  12. #512
    There's a common fallacy that's being spread that raiding feels like "job" when it is a huge fucking variable of what a job is and what guilds you apply to.

    If you apply to a guild that are way above your skill level then the schedule might be tight, just remember EVERYONE is trying to get through content as quick as possible, it's the gamer mentallity.

    The problem is how guilds work and how raids work. It all hinges on "leaders."
    How many players are willing to do this? Not many. You ever been in the awkward position of starting a PuG and tell everyone you didn't want to lead but just wanted to start a group?
    Yeah, and most times they'll hold that against you and in the worst case they'll drop group.

    It's changes like THIS that need to be made to make raiding more accessible. Voice com/shyness these kinds of things can be accomodated without the shit fest that is LFR and the impact it has on the game and EVERYONE.

  13. #513
    It's not so much dumbing down as it's improving the quality of life. Although it is true that Dungeon and Raid Finder have contributed to players becoming less social, both tools are very useful, as on lower populated servers it's really hard to find any groups or raids. But then there are the talents. I can't understand why people complain about new talent trees being worse than the old ones. The old talent trees had so much less options and almost everyone used a cookie-cutter build which they had found from the internet. Most of the talents were boring passive effects, like increasing X's damage by Y%. Now all those effects are baseline and there is only the more interesting talents.

  14. #514
    In ways dumbed down. But TBH if there was no LFR and you had to attune to get into ToT, and most raiders were still farming MSV and maybe the first part of HoF... the game would be a ghost town.

    A lot of it is the fact that after WotLK the story just got thinner from a "wow this is epic" viewpoint. I was okay grinding Karazahn cause I thought someday I would down Illidan... never happened of course. Same thing in WotLK. I stuck through cause I wanted to get into ICC. I never played Cataclysm, but I really could not care of Lei Shen ran amuck in the distant lands of Pandaria... That is changing in a good way with Garrosh.

    The decline of guilds is, IMO, a part of the game's life cycle. I do not know ANYONE who has been a raider from day 1 until now. Every friend and guild I have been in has gone inactive for long stretches of time... and usually they resub to a disbanded guild and an empty friend's list. Let's be honest, the raiding crowd is by and large longer-term players. Nowadays a teenager sees WoW and thinks "wow, this game looks a tad bit better than my free iOS game" and walks away. Back in Classic/TBC that was a subscriber.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    It's been simplified because over 8 years, every small nuisance was complained about by some minority that was loud enough to get everyone nodding their heads in agreement.
    Absolutely.
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  16. #516
    Brewmaster Zangeiti's Avatar
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    Personally I think they are doing it because they want more casual's to start playing. Seeing that they have the majority of hardcore's playing they want more business. so by dumbing it down they make it easier for the casual player to get into the game. But! making it a problem with hardcore's like me. I remember one time Me and my guild were able to pull of a 10 man on lei shendurumu the forgotten, elder council, tortos, maegaera, iron qon, ji-kun, horridon, primordius, dark animus, jinrohk, twin consorts. It was a big disappointment cause we did like 3 days of prep for this

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Wow is so easy only 336 guilds have killed Ra-Den, 402 Lei Shen. Less then 1.4%. Six other heroic fights are under 7%.
    Fascinating, I had no clue that one heroic raid tier constituted the entire scope of the game. This needs to be repeated apparently, but simply because a video game has difficult elements to it doesn't mean that the game itself is hard.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
    Plox. I got your plox right fucking here. - Animalhouse
    I still prefer seeing Thrall rather than blood in my urine, that doesnt make him a good character. - Verdugo

  18. #518
    Elemental Lord Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    wrong, MMORPGs have always been about the community and helping to achieve common goals, sadly the state of this game is everyone wants to make it a solo game which really pisses me off.
    Blame Blizzard. In every way other people ALWAYS hindered your progress.
    Examples?
    Questing: Other people make you wait for respawn. Grouping reduces XP gained.
    Rare mobs/Treasures/Gathering: Yeah seeing another player in the area makes you /yawn
    Dungeons: While you need other players, the teamwork stops as soon as the boss is dead. Then the other becomes your enemy.

    It's that constant competition that tires people out and makes them want to go solo.

    I long for the Guild Wars 2 System where you're actually HAPPY to see other players, instead of "Great why does that guy also has to quest here? Now it'll take me 2x as long to finish this."

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  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniperpally View Post
    By destroying the sense of achievement one gets from doing exclusive content and the community that is built around it to accomplish that. Takes the MMO out of MMORPG

    What we have now is just an on rails single player game where everyone wins just for participating and it has totally ruined wow

    I mean there's a thousand other games that are exactly that; why did they have to make WoW like that

    Changes towards this end pretty closely coincide with the drop in subs too
    Guilds have killed the MMO part more than that, when they have closed doors.
    A guild group is just that, a largely fixed group with most members pre-determined.
    Where is the massively multiplayer interaction, the interactions with other parts of the community ?
    There isn't any.

    LFR and LFD put you with random people, other guilds, other servers even which has does a hell of a lot more for the MMO portion of the game.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Guilds have killed the MMO part more than that, when they have closed doors.
    A guild group is just that, a largely fixed group with most members pre-determined.
    Where is the massively multiplayer interaction, the interactions with other parts of the community ?
    There isn't any.

    LFR and LFD put you with random people, other guilds, other servers even which has does a hell of a lot more for the MMO portion of the game.
    they might as well be asshole bots. shit maybe they are, I really have no way of knowing the people are real when I LFR

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