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  1. #521
    In a word? Money. The easier the game is the more players they get to subscribe. Hence moar money.

  2. #522
    The game isn't easier.

    /thread

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    The game isn't easier.

    /thread
    It actually is though. MoP compared to wotlk, heck, cataclysm even, has been dumbed down so much. The only times I have to put effort into playing the game is when I PvP and solo high end raiding/level 90 dungeons... Outside of those examples I never have to try my best.

  4. #524
    I've done the "challenging" part of wow, remember when starting zone mobs were hostile and not neutral, phew never thought i'd make it out of there alive.

  5. #525
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Guilds have killed the MMO part more than that, when they have closed doors.
    A guild group is just that, a largely fixed group with most members pre-determined.
    Where is the massively multiplayer interaction, the interactions with other parts of the community ?
    There isn't any.

    LFR and LFD put you with random people, other guilds, other servers even which has does a hell of a lot more for the MMO portion of the game.
    It was and is today INCREDIBLE cliquish. It was far worse in BC and Vanilla where you were basically at the behest of some raging asshole who ran the guild and his chosen cadre of officers. The cliques determined who got to go and who got lewt. I remember the mage officer in my old BC guild. He was maybe a 15 year old kid I was 26 at the time. At one point I said something I can't remember what exactly what it was but he nerd raged so hard in our little mage channel and threatened me that I would never get a piece of loot again or show up for any fuckign raid if I challenged him like that again. Well not wanting to take such disrespect and disabuse from what was practically a fucking child I said in vent this is BS. The rest of the officers agreed with me but that didn't mean they weren't a MASSIVE clique themselves. In fact when I came back to the game after a long hiatus I had found the group of them just left one day. The officers robbed the guild bank of everything we had contributed, took of with the 7 or 8 of them to another server and abandoned the guild. It was an incredible clique. The great thing about today is I can basically say fuck em. I can go get my fill somewhere else in the game or in another game.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I find it hilarious that whenever a topic like this pops up someone or multiple people will bring up <insert boss kill>.
    How is it hilarious?

    Usually these posts at some point assert that the highest challenge the game offers is in some way less difficult/complicated/hard-to-reach/etc than some other expansion when it almost invariably isn't.

    So yeah...not entirely unreasonable to expect the person saying that they "can't find a challenge" to be someone whose overcome the most challenging thing the game offers.

    If the OP were going to make more valid points about challenging content at a particular level (which is largely moot since there's pretty sufficient challenge at all levels now - Heroic Raids for 10-25 content, Challenge modes for 5 man content. Single player content pretty much hits its cap in difficulty at the Brawler's Guild) it'd be a bit different but he's just throwing around broad claims and saying that legitimate quality-of-life issues are "dumbing down" the game.

    So explain to me how it's funny to ask someone to prove that their assertion is true?
    Signature dunked by a lame MMO Champ robot.

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Fascinating, I had no clue that one heroic raid tier constituted the entire scope of the game. This needs to be repeated apparently, but simply because a video game has difficult elements to it doesn't mean that the game itself is hard.
    You want everything to be on one level of difficulty? Then you would have a failed game because no one would start playing it.
    WoW's implementation of "easy to learn (or easy to do the easy content), hard to master (or hard to do the hard content)" is the best approach there is, for any game, period. Because only with this approach, you have a lot of newcomers starting the game, and a lot of later hardcores staying for the hard stuff.

    The only apparent drawback is that this leads to the paradox where some people (as in this thread) think that just because it's easy to do some random quest or 5man dungeon, or any other $easyContent in the game, that the whole game would be too easy and not worth playing or whatever.

    But normally, whenever something is too easy for you, you simply step up to the next harder content. That is natural progression. Think Questing/LFR/Dungeons/Scenarios are too easy? Start playing Normal. Think Normal is too easy? Start playing Heroic or CMs. Think Heroic or CMs are too easy? Start improving your clear times. Think PvE is too static? Start playing PvP. Think PvP on 1800 is easy? Start improving your rating accordingly.

    It's all there. But still some people complain about how easy the easy crap is although they never even touch the harder stuff. It's paradox. Or insane. I don't know. But it's hardly objective. And that's what offends me a bit, because I try to do all these challenges to the extent that is possible for me, and then there's some random guy without any evidence that he knows what he's talking about claiming that "the game is easy". It's just stupid.
    If said player was in a world-class guild, or a tournament-level PvP player, who would critizise something about the game, that would then have a lot more validity (although even then he might not be objective). But, as a counter-example, some guy who barely has any experience in difficult content (HC Raiding or higher-level PvP, for example), claiming that WoW as a whole would be easy and dumbed-down and whatever because of the introduction of LFR or the removal of some attunement quest or the removal of group quests, that is simply... I don't know a proper word for it, but I think it's completely nonsense.
    Last edited by TaurenNinja; 2013-06-27 at 08:25 AM.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Emfg View Post
    It actually is though. MoP compared to wotlk, heck, cataclysm even, has been dumbed down so much. The only times I have to put effort into playing the game is when I PvP and solo high end raiding/level 90 dungeons... Outside of those examples I never have to try my best.
    Examples, please. Just saying 'it is' isn't acceptable.

    Explain in detail how boss mechanics are more easy nowadays. Also please explain how reputation grinds are easier. Also explain how easy it is to gear up to run the last tier of raids via pure dungeon grinding (protip: MoP is the first expansion where this isn't possible).

    Nostalgia is a funny thing.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteyes View Post
    In a word? Money. The easier the game is the more players they get to subscribe. Hence moar money.
    "Easy to get into and hard to master it."

    The holy grail of good game play.

    A pity WoW 2013 is so huge and overwhelming for a total noob, it starts to be a problem. Transmog, reforging, triple specs, phasing, cross realm play, proving grounds, wargames, experience turned off options, pet battles mechanics, farms, ...

    For a total noob even the term mana is a strange new word ...

    So WoW is too complicated after 9 years and 4 expansions for a newbee already.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-06-27 at 08:19 AM.

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    You want everything to be on one level of difficulty? Then you would have a failed game because no one would start playing it.
    Actually I don't agree with that. The rest of what you say is true if you accept the multiple difficulty model but if we went back to one difficulty the game would become so mind numbingly stupid easy just for the sheer need of players having something to do. If you lump all the players into one group obviously it will have to drag the content difficulty DOWN compared to heroics and normals today. I for one would welcome that but I suspect the crying from heroic raiders would be deafening. In fact heroic modes were set up for exactly that reason. In fact the very fact that heroic modes are a thing now sets current raiding apart from bc and vanilla where you simple had one difficulty and 9/10 that difficulty was set to piss easy.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-06-27 at 08:19 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    It's all there. But still some people complain about how easy the easy crap is although they never even touch the harder stuff. It's paradox. Or insane. I don't know. But it's hardly objective. And that's what offends me a bit, because I try to do all these challenges and then there's some random guy without any evidence that he knows what he's talking about claiming that "the game is easy". It's just stupid.
    So much in agreement. Nearly everyone complaining about the ease of the game will usually admit (eventually) that they haven't done everything the game has to offer in terms of challenge. And quite often they've not played in quite some time either, and thus have no actual frame of reference.

    Very few players capable of doing the very hardest content under the most difficult conditions (example: world first raiders) will say the game is easy. They might complain there's nothing left to do after they've completed that content, but calling it easy even for them is just ridiculous.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 09:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Actually I don't agree with that. The rest of what you say is true if you accept the multiple difficulty model but if we went back to one difficulty the game would become so mind numbingly stupid easy just for the sheer need of players having something to do. If you lump all the players into one group obviously it will have to drag the content difficulty DOWN compared to heroics and normals today. I for one would welcome that but I suspect the crying from heroic raiders would be deafening. In fact heroic modes were set up for exactly that reason. In fact the very fact that heroic modes are a thing now sets current raiding apart from bc and vanilla where you simple had one difficulty and 9/10 that difficulty was set to piss easy.
    Well we'd still have some hard content right at the end, but there wouldn't be very much of it. The current model is great in the fact there's extremely difficult end-game content in every tier now. Reducing (aka dumbing down - how ironic!) it down to a single difficulty wouldn't solve anything - it would mean most of the content is too easy for the heroic raiders and most of the content is too hard for the very casual players.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    So much in agreement. Nearly everyone complaining about the ease of the game will usually admit (eventually) that they haven't done everything the game has to offer in terms of challenge. And quite often they've not played in quite some time either, and thus have no actual frame of reference.

    Very few players capable of doing the very hardest content under the most difficult conditions (example: world first raiders) will say the game is easy. They might complain there's nothing left to do after they've completed that content, but calling it easy even for them is just ridiculous.
    And you are talking "depth" in difficulty, like becoming Gladiator in PVP (0.1% chance). Now add the horizontal challenges of play options.

    In fact I don't think anyone can STILL grasp every mechanic of WoW 2013 play to the fullest. How many % know how to put off experience? How many know what wargames are? How many know all subtle play within pet battles AND are 2300 PvP rated AND belong to the 1% top raiding guilds ...

    Making a thread about "dumbing down" in WoW anno 2013 is such a joke really.

  13. #533
    The game was never hard to begin with; it was just a gigantic time sink for people with nothing better to do. Honestly I've checked strategies for classic bosses and so on and the only -hard- part was getting 40 people to co-operate, communicate, gear up and follow the ever-so-basic tactics that were in classic. At least now bosses (usually) have some variation or special mechanics to them.

    People need to stop confusing difficulty with 'time-required-to-actually-enjoy-the-game.'

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranorack View Post
    The game was never hard to begin with; it was just a gigantic time sink for people with nothing better to do. Honestly I've checked strategies for classic bosses and so on and the only -hard- part was getting 40 people to co-operate, communicate, gear up and follow the ever-so-basic tactics that were in classic. At least now bosses (usually) have some variation or special mechanics to them.

    People need to stop confusing difficulty with 'time-required-to-actually-enjoy-the-game.'
    You only talk about ... 10% of the offered content of WoW 2013...

    You made it to Gladiator PvP already ? Since only 0.1% can get it, I don't see any merit in your words.

    The offered content is SOOOO huge these days, the WoW stuff is too challenging for any normal player anyways.

    And I am not even talking about time sinks but ... Skill... From competitive PVE, PVP to such things as the upcoming competitions in ...Pet Battles ...

    Seriously.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-06-27 at 08:35 AM.

  15. #535
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post

    Well we'd still have some hard content right at the end, but there wouldn't be very much of it. The current model is great in the fact there's extremely difficult end-game content in every tier now. Reducing (aka dumbing down - how ironic!) it down to a single difficulty wouldn't solve anything - it would mean most of the content is too easy for the heroic raiders and most of the content is too hard for the very casual players.
    In other words it would be normal. Unlike today were 2 of the three modes are to hard for the very casual player and the 3rd is basically a ghetto. Don't get me wrong I"m not by any means in favor of getting rid of lfr. I just think more difficulty modes isn't the answer. Raiding has just got to come down in terms of complexity. It can't simple go on forever increasing in complexity. At some point it has to reset itself so new players can get trained and fresh blood can come up.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    In other words it would be normal. Unlike today were 2 of the three modes are to hard for the very casual player and the 3rd is basically a ghetto. Don't get me wrong I"m not by any means in favor of getting rid of lfr. I just think more difficulty modes isn't the answer. Raiding has just got to come down in terms of complexity. It can't simple go on forever increasing in complexity. At some point it has to reset itself so new players can get trained and fresh blood can come up.
    Personally I don't care if .1% of the player base finds the hardest difficulty too easy.

    I do care if 95% of the player base finds "normal" difficulty intractable.

  17. #537
    I don't really agree that the game has become that much dumbed down than before. What people see or remember as complexity were actually unneccessary mechanics that did nothing to improve on the game, only took time (attunements for example). However, I really dislike the current talent system and the gear as a whole actually. Today's "talents" are so far away from the original RPG model that you can't really say player X has build Y and player N, of the same class, has build M, it's just different abilities, talents are supposed to change how the class works and what it does and how it does it. Gear is the other problem imo, it is dull and unimaginative when it comes to enhancing your character. We just have some basic stats that get increased with every tier. What about gear that changes how skills interact with each other? Or makes certain skills do something completely different, or adds brand new skills. Character builds and gear diversity are the bread and butter of RPG games, sadly WoW has distanced itself away from that. (I realize that those things are hell to balance, I just listed them as examples).

    WoW is in no way a bad game and I still enjoy playing it, but it is a little more than a third person adventure-action game.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I say both because I am realistic. You keep fooling yourself.
    Why am I fooling myself?

    Every example I've bothered to read here talks about LFR, which is dumbed down on purpose, to make it "accessible" to people who aren't in guilds, won't read the tactics, don't know how to play their class 100% right.

    What's wrong with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Complexity doesn't matter at all when you can ignore all those mechanics and abilities when doing the content. It's still dumbed down, simplified or whatever you want to call it.
    See, you can only be talking about LFR, because there's no fight in ToT at the moment where you can ignore mechanics, or at least not until your geared enough through doing the content and paying attention to the mechanics to be able to ignore the mechanics.

    You can't complain that something is easy when your only doing it on the easiest setting.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  19. #539
    So i finished this game on very easy, and it was easy like fuck!! WTF GAIS!
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    So i finished this game on very easy, and it was easy like fuck!! WTF GAIS!
    that's this thread in a nutshell

    People finish this puzzle:



    Then run to a soap box to complain about how easy it was, while this one sits on the same shelf and gathers dust:

    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

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