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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Not even close. I never even came close to saying that. This is you trying to twist my words because you can't argue the point.


    Again since you cut it from that response. It's the second line of that quote that you should be focusing on.
    You tried to compare wow to profession's that you need years and years off study to complete, did you not?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    1)WoW was always the casuals' MMO.
    2)What defines that has changed as the gaming market has changed. Gone are the days when 12+ hour/day turbonerds were the primary player audience.
    3)WoW has plenty of challenging content. It just might not be what you think the challenging content should be(HC raids, Challenge Modes, rated PvP instead of pre-form only 5-mans that take hours to complete, for example).
    As a turbonerd, I resent this >: (

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    See, doesn't make a particularly compelling argument. The argument could be made that every bit of 'dumbing down' was streamlining and trimming the fat or simply changes, not positive or negative, simply a different style.
    Their INTENT is to "trim the fat". But that "fat" adds flavor, much like in a steak :P

    Obviously not everything cut from the game was a bad move (hello dismounting when you go through water), but many things were removed because they felt unnecessary, when in fact they added personal touch to the game.

    Like I always say, those things put the RPG in MMORPG. Now we're getting to this insta-gratification slot machine game era.

  4. #164
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    You tried to compare wow to profession's that you need years and years off study to complete, did you not?
    No. I compared the idea that all you need is knowledge. Which is what you said. When in fact you don't only need knowledge, you need the ability to use it.



    Do you really not understand what an analogy is?

  5. #165
    Bloodsail Admiral FearXI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    World of Warcraft has always been the easiest MMO, and that is what it was sold on. If you ever played Everquest or even earlier MMO's you would realize that WoW was decried in the beginning as too casual. When TBC launched, it coined the phrase "welfare epics".

    The game isn't dumbed down but it's simply made accessible to everyone regardless of skill level. There is still challenge to be found - at end game, where it's supposed to be. Leveling the first time, when you know nothing at all, is fun, but no one wants extreme challenge for their 9th or 10th character at that point. You can find plenty of challenging content in heroic raids, heroic scenarios, & challenge modes. People who like to coast along will enjoy regular heroics, scenarios, and LFR.

    In essence? What you want isn't necessarily what everyone else wants, but WoW does its best to cater to both.
    Sums it up for me for a reply.
    I came to WoW way back when it launched from FFXI.
    Now if you want a hard game that takes a lot of skill go to FFXI for a while.
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  6. #166
    Herald of the Titans Eorayn's Avatar
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    The worst is that, when one hits the level cap, one usually just sticks around in a capital city, waiting for a queue to pop up. It's lazy and not fun at all.

  7. #167
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eorayn View Post
    The worst is that, when one hits the level cap, one usually just sticks around in a capital city, waiting for a queue to pop up. It's lazy and not fun at all.

    Why are you doing that? There is plenty to do if you try.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Projali View Post
    Leveling in WoW was never difficult, even in Vanilla. Did it take longer? Yeah. Does that make it harder? No.
    Uh, leveling was harder in Vanilla. I remember running into those Korbold tunnels at level 8 and dying almost every time I got an add.

    Now I can charge in at level 8 wearing level 1 grays that I started with and kill 3 with absolutely no issue.

    When Dungeon Finder first came out I really liked the concept because I could gear quickly. That was around the time I stopped enjoying the game, too. I think it's because I stopped making friends and got bored. Back in WotLK before Dungeon Finder, I always had a small group of friends that constantly grew as I was running heroics. The fact most of the zones in the game don't even matter anymore, as I can just sit in a main city and queue up, really saddens me.

    I will agree with what above posters are saying, though. WoW back in Vanilla was still one of the easiest MMO's on the market, compared to Final Fantasy XI and Everquest. It's like MMO's are competing for who can be the most casual. I'm really hoping an MMO comes out soon that follows suit to the "old ways".

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by swagster View Post
    In the end they are losing the quality players. The ones that can make it an amazing community, the ones who do not need their parents money to afford the game. The ones who I love to find in a guild and spend hours and hours playing with.

    "The worlds BEST MMORPG" has turned into "The worlds EASIEST and most accommodating MMORPG". That is NOT how you retain subs.
    I'm a "quality" player. I have disposable income to spend.

    That's how they retain my subscription. I play 3-4 hours per week, total. I can't spend hours and hours at a time sitting in front of a computer with my butt getting larger and larger from inactivity.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    No. I compared the idea that all you need is knowledge. Which is what you said. When in fact you don't only need knowledge, you need the ability to use it.
    But knowledge is not all you need, you need to be mentally and physically strong to make a career as for example a astrounat. It was you and not me that compared that when i said that all you needed was knowlege and time in wow.

  11. #171
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    No. I compared the idea that all you need is knowledge. Which is what you said. When in fact you don't only need knowledge, you need the ability to use it.



    Do you really not understand what an analogy is?
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    But knowledge is not all you need, you need to be mentally and physically strong to make a career as for example a astrounat.
    I never said it was. YOU DID.


    In case you forgot..


    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Not everyone have the time to kill HC bosses, thats all you need time and knowledge off your class and bosses. Time does not equal difficulty.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    As a turbonerd, I resent this >: (
    As another turbonerd, I think it's dead-on-balls accurate. Everyone and their pet marmoset is on the Internet nowadays, and a lot of them play some kind of video game. It might be some cheesy Facebook clickfest or Flash app, but it's still a video game. From consoles and desktops to smartphones and tablets, the market has grown and grown and game companies have adapted to take advantage of it.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Their INTENT is to "trim the fat". But that "fat" adds flavor, much like in a steak :P

    Obviously not everything cut from the game was a bad move (hello dismounting when you go through water), but many things were removed because they felt unnecessary, when in fact they added personal touch to the game.

    Like I always say, those things put the RPG in MMORPG. Now we're getting to this insta-gratification slot machine game era.
    That's the thing, there really wasn't flavor there for a lot of it. It would be great to have an expanded talent system but they couldn't balance it properly and it was bloated since they created it in the game's infancy. A lot of the quality of life stuff, I say just avoid it if you don't like that it's different. That's what I like, many of the things they've changed are choices, if you want you can ignore the change and do it as you've always done it.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    I never said it was. YOU DID.


    In case you forgot..
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Nice comparison , comparing astronaut to wow cmon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    All you need is the knowledge. Whats the difference?
    Hmm so you did not just say all you needed was knowledge?.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    As another turbonerd, I think it's dead-on-balls accurate. Everyone and their pet marmoset is on the Internet nowadays, and a lot of them play some kind of video game. It might be some cheesy Facebook clickfest or Flash app, but it's still a video game. From consoles and desktops to smartphones and tablets, the market has grown and grown and game companies have adapted to take advantage of it.
    I know, I was just joking around : ).

    I'll be the first to admit that there are plenty of places gaming is going that I'm not happy with but WoW has done surprisingly well with taking everything in stride and not completely ruining the experience, even for people like me who play far too much for their own good. I wish there were more challenging games out there but I know that those do not sell well. As it is I'm glad Dark Souls has done as well as it has and I cherish it as a challenging and rewarding experience.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    Lol, are you really pretending there were choices back then? Everything was entirely cookie-cutter and if you didn't go with specific builds you were considered a bad. The new simplified talent systems aren't perfect but they are much easier to balance and offer 10 times for variety than the old talent trees did.
    Er, no. Maybe in a raid environment this was true but that was about it. The old talent trees had more choice per point than the new MoP ones do. Look at rogues... Nearly every single rogue now is not only the same spec but has the same exact talent build in a raid environment. So, yeah, absolutely no improvement there from TBC. If anything, compared to Wrath & Cata, it's worse.

    As far as the rest is concerned, I think I may have used Sap a half dozen times as a token gesture in Challenge Modes but that's about it. I still Blind stuff but it is hardly necessary. Gouge I can't even remember the last time I used in PvE. In vanilla & TBC dungeons, you actually had to peel stuff, Blind, Gouge, stun, whatever... now it's just spam FoK and/or tunnel your optimal DPS rotation into everything.

    The older content (like much of TBC) was both very hard and inaccessible for most people, so I'm thankful for many of the quality of life changes but overall, I find the game more dumbed-down and convoluted than ever before.

  17. #177
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Hmm so you did not just say all you needed was knowledge?.

    Go learn what an analogy is before you post again.

  18. #178
    Warchief Velthy's Avatar
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    Because people and the society in general is getting dumber and lazier more and more every day.

    Signature made by my best friend Aryiana.

  19. #179
    Dreadlord Widow Maker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    I never said it was. YOU DID.


    In case you forgot..
    You're still comparing a real life training that an extremely small percentage of people can complete to a video game...that makes your analogy retarded. He's saying, for Astronaut training..you need more than just knowledge. And you're still comparing that to him saying for WoW..all you need to know is the basic mechanics of the game and you're good. He's right you dunce. Learn your rotation/s, learn your "oh shit" spells, learn to listen to your dbm, and most of all, learn to move out of bad shit. This game isn't hard. If a group of competent people got together, they can down most if not all of the current content. Why doesn't it happen often? Because not everyone has the luxury of playing for hours on end to down a fucking boss in a video game, and there is a massive influx of retards playing.

    As for what the OP is saying. A lot of things is just convenience but that kind of takes away from the immersion of the game. It doesn't feel like a "second world" like it use to. Just feels like another video game with a shitty combat system. Things are more retard friendly because a lot of kids play, hell I started playing this when I was like 12. They just started adding shit for their younger player base. It's a drastic change that, sooner or later, was going to happen.

    And as for the people saying "Post your Ra-den kill or GTFO", shut the fuck up. What, people can't criticize the game if they haven't done heroic content? It's not even new content, it's the same fucking bosses with more HP and a few more abilities. Woopty fucking doo. And like I said above, not everyone has the luxury of spending massive amounts of hours into a video game. That doesn't mean that anyone that hasn't downed that boss is incompetent. An incompetent raid group, maybe. That's all I have to say on the matter. Being on here makes me way too angry..PEACE!
    Last edited by Widow Maker; 2013-06-24 at 05:06 PM.
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  20. #180
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widow Maker View Post
    You're still comparing a real life training that an extremely small percentage of people can complete to a video game...that makes your analogy retarded. He's saying, for Astronaut training..you need more than just knowledge. And you're still comparing that to him saying for WoW..all you need to know is the basic mechanics of the game and you're good. He's right you dunce. Learn your rotation/s, learn your "oh shit" spells, learn to listen to your dbm, and most of all, learn to move out of bad shit. This game isn't hard. If a group of competent people got together, they can down most if not all of the current content. Why doesn't it happen often? Because not everyone has the luxury of playing for hours on end to down a fucking boss in a video game, and there is a massive influx of retards playing.

    Video game or not. What is the % of people that finish hard modes?

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