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  1. #1

    Why was World of Warcraft dumbed down that much?

    Strangely enough every new expansion WoW is simpler, dumbed down, etc.

    A need for class trainers is gone, because now one is magically gifted by a powerful God of some sort with new abilities. There's no more joy of eagerly awaiting that spell you see in the list several levels ahead. The mobs are pathetic, and the classes are overpowered in PvE. A low level character could easily take on 5 or 6 mobs before seeing any sign of difficulty in fighting them. What ever happened to having to be careful, actually working to complete a quest or dungeon? You simply AOE them down now.

    Spell tooltips showing you when to use your spells, how to use them and in what kind of scenario.

    Talent trees. Seriously, what is this? I feel like I am in a game for 6 year olds when I look at this. Could they have dumbed it down anymore? I feel like the next step is merely choosing what spec you want, and I expect that change to happen in a few months time.

    Dungeons. Why must they show us where each and ever boss is? Heck, even the introduction to instance maps annoyed me a bit. Part of the fun of dungeons was running it a few times before coming across a boss you hadn't seen before, because it's off to the side and new players wouldn't normally know of it. Now we have "Go here for this boss, and this one, and this one, and this one. And don't worry, they're incredibly easy. In a few levels you could probably solo it."

    Raids. The LFR is a great example of this, instant gratification with absolutely no commitment required. No preparation required, no need to know what the bosses do, no nothing. Just go in, spam 3-4 buttons and you're done.

    Blizzard is trying to make the game appeal to a younger audience to get the new generation interested in the game. And that's a completely fair goal. However, doing it how they are isn't the right way to go about it. They're making this game boring and disappointing to those of a mediocre intelligence level, and underestimating those of the new generation. They're more intelligent than many will give them credit for, and they do not need this level of simplification of it.

    In the end they are losing the quality players. The ones that can make it an amazing community, the ones who do not need their parents money to afford the game. The ones who I love to find in a guild and spend hours and hours playing with.

    I want a challenge, I want to have to think, I want that excitement back. Because soon i'll feel like i'm playing Farmville, with dragons.

    Is this something that was asked for? Quality of life went too far? Did a group of mentally challenged people petition Blizzard and say "This game is so difficult, I don't know how or when to use my spells and skills.... can you hold my hand?"
    Or did Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, think that dumbing down this game to such a level that there is no learning process now is a good idea?

    The game today feels as though every cheat possible has been turned on. Warriors and Warlocks are vastly different to the one I rolled all those years ago.

    WoW feels like a game with GODMODE enabled. that is hardly compelling or enticing. "The worlds BEST MMORPG" has turned into "The worlds EASIEST and most accommodating MMORPG". That is NOT how you retain subs. The game has lost millions of subs and now they're relying on people loving the "fresh car smell" of WoW, which will definitely fade with time. Basically they've decided to aim for short term profits. that's it. Works well now, but if the game every does collapse, i assert that the kernels of that failure are being planted now.

  2. #2
    That's why I'm playing on a private server. Playing for free while meeting people who greet you/are social in dungeons/bg's is much better than the atrocity that is anti-social retail WoW.

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    You know I just skimmed through it so I'm just going to put this out there which is simple ''Money'' Casuals which isn't a bad thing mind you are most of the majority of this game thus they have to make it more attractive to the well people who don't exactly have time to commit to hardcore / Semi-HC shit. It's been this way since Woltk and It's not going to change in fact It's going to get even more so called ''EZ'' or w/e you think it is.

    Most ''HC'' people adapt to it which should include you but hey if you don't like it could always quit.

  4. #4
    Here's the thing. One of the reasons for Warcraft's massive success in Classic and BC was due to the fact that it was significantly easier, more forgiving, and more accessible than all of the other popular MMOs on the market. Anyone who played at the time and had experience with other MMOs like Everquest could tell you this.

    That is why it has continued to simplify itself- because it worked, and because it was always Blizzard's design philosophy, from the very beginning. Whether this simplification is or is not one of the causes of the sub loss, or whether that is better attributed to the game's age, possibly outdated sub-to-play model, or the general popularity of MMOs right now, is all and only unproven and unprovable speculation.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    I don't see what the problem is what with being given explanations as to how the game works. I mean, I read the instruction manual for a new TV or my new microwave too before I use it. What's so wrong with WoW giving people information as to what to do? Apparently, it still doesn't give ENOUGH information, seeing as how many complaints about bad players we usually get on the forums.

  6. #6
    Let's take bets on when the OP landed his first Ra-den kill.

  7. #7
    The post by Daetur more or less sums up my feelings. And personally, I have no qualms about no longer needing to visit Thottbot to learn something, nor do I miss having to completely depend on other people in order to get anything done and have fun. This is supposed to be a game after all, not a community job.

  8. #8
    Yea because those raid strats of Molten Core were so intellectually superior compared to what we get today.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Yossarian's Avatar
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    every time I see a post like this I think: "it's a NINE YEARS OLD GAME still doing far better than every other mmo game, deal with it and accept changes"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    Let's take bets on when the OP landed his first Ra-den kill.
    Let's be serious and make it one that there's actually a chance he did kill. Lei Shen Normal.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    World of Warcraft has always been the easiest MMO, and that is what it was sold on. If you ever played Everquest or even earlier MMO's you would realize that WoW was decried in the beginning as too casual. When TBC launched, it coined the phrase "welfare epics".

    The game isn't dumbed down but it's simply made accessible to everyone regardless of skill level. There is still challenge to be found - at end game, where it's supposed to be. Leveling the first time, when you know nothing at all, is fun, but no one wants extreme challenge for their 9th or 10th character at that point. You can find plenty of challenging content in heroic raids, heroic scenarios, & challenge modes. People who like to coast along will enjoy regular heroics, scenarios, and LFR.

    In essence? What you want isn't necessarily what everyone else wants, but WoW does its best to cater to both.



  12. #12
    LOL. The irony of WoW players complaining about "dumbing down" when WoW was called a "dumbed down Everquest" when it first launched.

  13. #13
    if you want a game where everything is as inconvenient as possible while pretending that it's challenging then you need to go back about 15 years and play eq1

    an extremely small percentage of players got to clear raids back then so it's exactly what you're looking for

  14. #14
    Leveling was changed because most people never reached the cap, coupled with actual raiders complaining how long it took for their friends to catch up with them.

    I can agree that the damage done to leveling is pretty bad in a lot of ways.

    The auto-learning of spells and stuff is just a quality of life things, I think most people don't care all too much about that except perhaps RPers and the few stalwart oldschoolers.

    The talent tree thing is because no real choice ever existed in talent trees. In some cases, it still doesn't :x

    But a lot of the other things you complain about were very necessary and were long overdue, like queue systems for types of content, considering how historically low their participation is combined with how much it costs to produce.

    But I doubt you'll ever agree with anything sort of going that way, considering how many slurs you used in your statements :x


    But anyways, to sum it up, in general, queue systems, drop in drop out, no commitment is where gaming is now. It's where it has been heading since 2005, and it's firmly in there now. It's why most new MMO's have major problems getting anyone to give them the time of day, and why old games still around mostly are seeing dwindling numbers. The gaming landscape has changed, and MMOs aren't really going along with it, and it's carrying a whole lot of genre baggage, and lots of people can "scratch that itch" that MMO-type games usually provide via something that has either no monthly fee, or is free entirely, without all the baggage. At least that's what I think.

  15. #15
    This the thread type that never ends, they just repost on and on my friends! (parody of the song that never ends).

    On topic, Streamlining/reducing can be a good thing. Talents were never interesting before and now they seem to be more fun. They could be improved further however.

    As for LFR - thats for people who either are not good enough for Normal mode or don't have the time commitment etc for doing it. Its intended for 25 total strangers to over come with out the need for voice coms and weeks of work.

    Infact a mod posted earlier in the thread and its pretty much bang on.

  16. #16
    Leveling in WoW was never difficult, even in Vanilla. Did it take longer? Yeah. Does that make it harder? No.

  17. #17
    Immortal True Anarch's Avatar
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    One simple answer:

    "Meeting market expectations."

    The gaming market went from being dominated by a hardcore NES generation to a market where the majority of the customers are average housewives and men who barely know how to install a program on their PC.
    "Civilized men and bloody giants."

  18. #18
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    Yea because those raid strats of Molten Core were so intellectually superior compared to what we get today.
    I got it let me sum it up!

    - Luci - > Impending Doom - cure curse - Mind control adds - > Kill adds kill boss cure curse heal YAYYYYYY
    - Magmadar - > Enrage - > Must use tranq shot to cure Enrage - > Pref by two hunters - > Tank must use fear break abilities from time to time or use fear ward via ally
    - Ghehenas - > cure curse - > Run from rain of fire - > Kill adds - > Kill boss
    - Garr - > Set marks for each add - > Set tanks for each add - > Begin via Ice block mage or divine protection pally - > Kill a few adds - > Kill boss - > Don't kill all adds
    - Shazrah - > Go in a circle - > Cure curses - > One tank
    ~~ Set notes np Decursive press 1 button and everything is cleansed ~~
    - Baron Geddon ~ Living bomb move from people - > Cleanse magic burning mana thing - > Move from Hellfire thing - > Kill boss
    - Harbinger ~ Set tanks for each of the adds ~ Use MS effects via each add ~ Split each add so they don't heal ~ Kill all adds ~ Kill boss
    - Golemag ~ Set tanks via the two adds ~ Kill boss ~ Use as many as cool downs when earthquake happens ~
    - Executus ~ CC Healing adds ~ Set each tank for each add ~ Set 1 tank to tank Executus ~ Kill adds then healers ~ Loot
    - Ragnaros ~ Tank swap ~ Add phase kill adds ~ Repeat ~ Kill boss

    Did I miss something :O

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swagster View Post
    A need for class trainers is gone, because now one is magically gifted by a powerful God of some sort with new abilities.
    Actually, you learn them from your spellbook.

    There's no more joy of eagerly awaiting that spell you see in the list several levels ahead.
    Actually, you can see them in your spellbook.

    The mobs are pathetic, and the classes are overpowered in PvE. A low level character could easily take on 5 or 6 mobs before seeing any sign of difficulty in fighting them. What ever happened to having to be careful, actually working to complete a quest or dungeon? You simply AOE them down now.
    Not entirely true, especially in higher level zones, though I will agree that mobs generally pose no threat to players at lower levels.

    Spell tooltips showing you when to use your spells, how to use them and in what kind of scenario.
    Only if you have the tutorial tooltips turned on in the options.

    Talent trees. Seriously, what is this? I feel like I am in a game for 6 year olds when I look at this. Could they have dumbed it down anymore? I feel like the next step is merely choosing what spec you want, and I expect that change to happen in a few months time.
    Talents and specializations have already been divided into two seperate things, and while you have fewer choices, they are generally far more meaningful.

    The only thing the game has lost from the new talent system is adding points to your talent tree whenever you level up, and I do think that they should introduce some form of alternate advancement to bring that interaction back, as it made each individual level up feel a bit more compelling. However, I certainly don't want them to go back to the old talent trees.

    Dungeons. Why must they show us where each and ever boss is? Heck, even the introduction to instance maps annoyed me a bit. Part of the fun of dungeons was running it a few times before coming across a boss you hadn't seen before, because it's off to the side and new players wouldn't normally know of it. Now we have "Go here for this boss, and this one, and this one, and this one. And don't worry, they're incredibly easy. In a few levels you could probably solo it."
    They added dungeon maps so that players wouldn't have to alt+tab out and look up the dungeon maps on wowhead.

    Raids. The LFR is a great example of this, instant gratification with absolutely no commitment required. No preparation required, no need to know what the bosses do, no nothing. Just go in, spam 3-4 buttons and you're done.
    So don't do LFR?

    Blizzard is trying to make the game appeal to a younger audience to get the new generation interested in the game.
    I don't think they are doing that at all. I don't think they're trying to appeal to any group in particular, but rather have generally removed gameplay elements which could be considered frustrating rather than challenging.

    I think that a lot of people, including you, confuse frustration with challenge, and complexity with depth. The talents are not any less deep than they were five years ago, though they are far less complex. There was never anything difficult about choosing talents in the past.

    In fact, you should go look at the original Classic talent trees and compare them with the current specialization/talent system. They were beyond bland.

    http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?vie...d=10&build=1.3

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#V!

    Go ahead, compare them.

    In Classic, a Demonology Warlock got 3 active abilities through talents (Fel Domination, Demonic Sacrifice, Soul Link) and several passives which amounted to slightly tougher demons, a bit more stamina and int, better healthstones, and decreased cast times on summons.

    In Mists of Pandaria, a Demonology Warlock gets 13 unique active abilities through specialization (plus a unique resource mechanic and several passives), a selection of 6 more active or passive abilities through talents, and a selection of some 20+ glyphs which alter the way several of their abilities work.

    Now, are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that we have fewer meaningful options now than we did in Classic?
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2013-06-24 at 02:04 PM.

  20. #20
    Just another one of those nonsense threads.

    WoW wasn't "dumbed down" one bit. The challenging content of the game is more complex and demanding than it has ever been. You probably also write complaint mails to your local supermarket because they offer various ice cream flavors instead just the one you prefer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayhos View Post
    every video game has gamey aspects to it

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