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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteyes View Post
    In a word? Money. The easier the game is the more players they get to subscribe. Hence moar money.
    if blizz was really so much all about money like that they would have thrown out normals and heroics ages ago and never bothered with CMs or the brawlers guild

  2. #542
    A need for class trainers is gone - you still can wait that spell. Now you just see it on your spellbook rather than on trainer. Difference is you dont pay for it, which is good thing considering inflation of ingame money and low level greens costing several gold in AH (few silver used to be good price).

    Spell tooltips showing you when to use your spells - didnt they always tell you what they did? + rotations are by far more complicated than anything vanilla or TBC offered. At lvl 10 you have more usefull spells for PVE than you had at 60 during vanilla as dps.

    Talent trees - you googled right spec. There was one spec you used. If you didnt you were terrible. Oh the excitement getting 1% crit when you leveled... Wait that was boring as hell. At least nowdays most talents are usefull somehow and you can make difference by changing them and glyphs. By far more complicated and far more options than there ever was.

    Dungeons - there is challenge modes if you want bit more challenging content. There is also Brawlers guild for solo PVE. Even though i have good memories about spending 5 hours in BRD, it actually wasnt that much fun. I prefer current design over it. It was just messy. Though they could make some options to it like different wings etc. but over all i would consider current one improvement.

    Raids - Dont do LFR then. Its for people to see content easily and have some form of gear progression. If you want challenge get to normals or heroic raids. If someone else sees content it doesnt take ANYTHING away from you. Just be happy there is something for everyone.

    Vanilla / TBC was just time consuming, not really hard. People were terrible players and most bosses were tank and spank. Bosses were hard because they were enormous gear checks. I loved Vanilla / TBC but i prefer current content.

  3. #543
    I do agree. Killing level 12 mobs at level 90 has become a little too easy. /sarcasm.

    If you post stuff like this and then go wipe on H Horridon 50 times before killing him, it kind of contradicts the shit out of what you're trying to say. Even top 10 World Guilds wipe hundreds and hundreds of times on content for countless hours and probably many tired nights trying to kill a boss. That's difficulty. Obviously as they kill it more and more it gets easier because they start to know the fight down to a science. If you leveled to 90 and made this thread trying to say the game is easy, then i don't know.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Galilei View Post
    I do agree. Killing level 12 mobs at level 90 has become a little too easy. /sarcasm.

    If you post stuff like this and then go wipe on H Horridon 50 times before killing him, it kind of contradicts the shit out of what you're trying to say. Even top 10 World Guilds wipe hundreds and hundreds of times on content for countless hours and probably many tired nights trying to kill a boss. That's difficulty. Obviously as they kill it more and more it gets easier because they start to know the fight down to a science. If you leveled to 90 and made this thread trying to say the game is easy, then i don't know.
    Scroll a few pages back, when I said I could solo Zul Farak on my lvl 50 warrior. Then tell me why is this even possible? Or a lovely example that happened a while ago. I get a group for Scarlet monastery - Graveyard. A rogue stealths and runs to the boss and kills him, and the dungeon is over in 5 minutes. Now tell me again how the game has not been dumbed down. And again you come here and start talking about heroic bosses, when already everyone in the thread acknowledged that heroic raids are hards. The topic is "dumbed down game", not "heroic raids are dumbed down".

    But then again, I expected nothing less from a Blizz fanboy than to post the same crap after 28 pages.

  5. #545
    Because low levels are never balanced and Blizz intentionally made option to get heirloom gear to make things easier and leveling faster. Reason is there is very few people leveling and most people want to rush through it. There is challenging content at lvl 90, most people just dont want to spend too much time on lower levels.

  6. #546
    Game was dumbed down so much mainly because it is needed for getting the masses into normal & heroic raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galilei View Post
    ... Even top 10 World Guilds wipe hundreds and hundreds of times on content for countless hours and probably many tired nights trying to kill a boss. That's difficulty. ...
    No, that is trying to achieve something that they're undergeared for.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Scroll a few pages back, when I said I could solo Zul Farak on my lvl 50 warrior. Then tell me why is this even possible?
    Because they didn't retune all the dungeons in the 9 years and 4 expansions they've had since it was released....does that really need pointing out?

    I'm confused to the what your trying to say, the game has been dumbed down because when your just over half way through levelling to where the actual current content is things are easier than they were?

    This would make sense if the game was all level 50 solo-able dungeons, but it's not, hasn't blizzard said a number of times that things are balanced around level 90's, I'm just confused why you think your examples prove anything.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Scroll a few pages back, when I said I could solo Zul Farak on my lvl 50 warrior. Then tell me why is this even possible? Or a lovely example that happened a while ago. I get a group for Scarlet monastery - Graveyard. A rogue stealths and runs to the boss and kills him, and the dungeon is over in 5 minutes. Now tell me again how the game has not been dumbed down. And again you come here and start talking about heroic bosses, when already everyone in the thread acknowledged that heroic raids are hards. The topic is "dumbed down game", not "heroic raids are dumbed down".

    But then again, I expected nothing less from a Blizz fanboy than to post the same crap after 28 pages.
    Wow has always been aimed at casual players. Original wow while grindy and had a lot of elite mobs that required groups was a lot more casual than other MMOS.

    Also you are picking and choosing your definition of dumbed down game. Some aspects of this game are easier but others are certainly more complex than ever before. So surely that means the entire game isn't dumbed down which is counter to the topics suggestion?

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by swagster View Post
    A need for class trainers is gone, because now one is magically gifted by a powerful God of some sort with new abilities.
    QoL improvement. There was nothing difficult or smart about going to your trainer, so there is no making simpler or dumbing down.

    There's no more joy of eagerly awaiting that spell you see in the list several levels ahead.
    Why not? That still happens, you just don't have to go pick them up yourself.

    The mobs are pathetic, and the classes are overpowered in PvE. A low level character could easily take on 5 or 6 mobs before seeing any sign of difficulty in fighting them. What ever happened to having to be careful, actually working to complete a quest or dungeon? You simply AOE them down now.
    Agreed, leveling is a lot faster nowadays. It's not easier as it was never difficult, just slow and tedious. That's because veterans who level new alts don't want to do it the slow way AGAIN. New players probably wouldn't mind when everything was slower, but the current players raised hell that leveling your 8th alt was tedious.

    Spell tooltips showing you when to use your spells, how to use them and in what kind of scenario.
    How is that bad? Every game has a tutorial or a very extensive manual. How are new people supposed to learn what does what if you don't tell them?

    Talent trees. Seriously, what is this? I feel like I am in a game for 6 year olds when I look at this. Could they have dumbed it down anymore? I feel like the next step is merely choosing what spec you want, and I expect that change to happen in a few months time.
    Yes, because finding your spec on Elitist Jerks was so difficult. You had the illusion of choice, but if you choose anything different then the optimal spec, you would be sworn at and kicked from every group or raid. Now you have real choices, which is a lot more fun and forces you to think about how you would like to play.

    Dungeons. Why must they show us where each and ever boss is? Heck, even the introduction to instance maps annoyed me a bit. Part of the fun of dungeons was running it a few times before coming across a boss you hadn't seen before, because it's off to the side and new players wouldn't normally know of it. Now we have "Go here for this boss, and this one, and this one, and this one. And don't worry, they're incredibly easy. In a few levels you could probably solo it."
    Again, people should be able to learn everything ingame. Before you had to tab to a website to find what bosses there were, what they did and how to handle them. No you can learn that ingame. It doesn't make the dungeon easier or dumber or anything, just easier to learn. And yes, leveling dungeons are mostly AoE fests, but that's intentional. If you want a challenge, do challenge dungeons. If you just want some fun and gear, do normal/heroics.

    Raids. The LFR is a great example of this, instant gratification with absolutely no commitment required. No preparation required, no need to know what the bosses do, no nothing. Just go in, spam 3-4 buttons and you're done.
    Why do you need preparation for a game? I want to go in, play, go out, not make a job out of it or get homework. What is wrong with multiple difficulties? Normal and heroic raids have never been harder then they are today, because LFR exists (no more nerfing normals to accommodate bad players). Nothing has been dumbed down here, it's just an added difficulty.

    Blizzard is trying to make the game appeal to a younger audience to get the new generation interested in the game. And that's a completely fair goal. However, doing it how they are isn't the right way to go about it. They're making this game boring and disappointing to those of a mediocre intelligence level, and underestimating those of the new generation. They're more intelligent than many will give them credit for, and they do not need this level of simplification of it.
    It's still a 12+ game (or 13?) as it has always been, so what younger audience do you speak of?

    In the end they are losing the quality players. The ones that can make it an amazing community, the ones who do not need their parents money to afford the game. The ones who I love to find in a guild and spend hours and hours playing with.
    Because how well you can play has anything to do with how social you are or how much money you have? What nonsense.

    I want a challenge, I want to have to think, I want that excitement back. Because soon i'll feel like i'm playing Farmville, with dragons.
    Link me your armory with your gold medals for all challenge dungeons and every tier cleared on heroics when they were current, please. Leveling might be easy, and LFR, and heroics, but there's plenty of challenge left for people who want that.

    Is this something that was asked for? Quality of life went too far? Did a group of mentally challenged people petition Blizzard and say "This game is so difficult, I don't know how or when to use my spells and skills.... can you hold my hand?"
    Yes, actually. New players quit en masse before level 20 because they had no clues on how to play or what to do. But of course, you don't care, because you immediately label everyone but you as mentally challenged...

    Or did Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, think that dumbing down this game to such a level that there is no learning process now is a good idea?
    No learning process? Why are there so few guilds clearing heroics again? Why do people fail in even LFR again?

    Ah well, you just go quit, the rest of us 8 million will continue playing the game in the difficulty that we want and have fun, without caring that someone else plays the game on an easier difficulty.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    Ah well, you just go quit, the rest of us 8 million will continue playing the game in the difficulty that we want and have fun, without caring that someone else plays the game on an easier difficulty.
    Until the next batch of 1 million leave, then you'll get to argue tirelessly about exactly why they all left.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  11. #551
    WoW, the OP for this thread must be the first person I have ever heard of who managed to go from just returning to the game to being 13/13 H cleared within 3 weeks.

    You should actually try wiping hundreds of times getting all of the heroics on farm in the current tier of content before you start complaining about the game being too easy. The design concept for WoW seems to be a game that is easy to learn but challenging to master. All of these people complaining about how 'easy' the game is are probably not the players who are working on the actual difficult parts of the game.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
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  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Also you are picking and choosing your definition of dumbed down game. Some aspects of this game are easier but others are certainly more complex than ever before. So surely that means the entire game isn't dumbed down which is counter to the topics suggestion?
    And most of the echo chamber that makes up this thread is picking and choosing it's narrow definition of hard content, and imagining that that counts for the entire game.

    "Driving a car is easy."
    "Oh yeah? Lets see your F1 title"
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  13. #553
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    And most of the echo chamber that makes up this thread is picking and choosing it's narrow definition of hard content, and imagining that that counts for the entire game.

    "Driving a car is easy."
    "Oh yeah? Lets see your F1 title"
    More like people saying

    "Racing is easy"
    "Oh yeah? Let's see your race trophy"


    Want me to go back and quote people saying heroic raids are easy and only require time?

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    More like people saying

    "Racing is easy"
    "Oh yeah? Let's see your race trophy"


    Want me to go back and quote people saying heroic raids are easy and only require time?
    That analogy implies that raiding is the entirety of this game.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  15. #555
    People really need to get over it. Game hasn't been dumbed down. People just are smarter. Want the game to feel more epic? Play the game with no addons.

  16. #556
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    That analogy implies that raiding is the entirety of this game.

    Considering that is what most people are talking about. It fits.

  17. #557
    Dreadlord Teebone's Avatar
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    One thing about challenge that people like to OP crave.. addons. Try raiding without them. Truly. The game was designed around the stock UI. I'd love to hear your excuses why someone shouldn't raid without addons. Ask my guild mates, done it for years, just relied on my own timing and in-game warnings. Want to test yourself? Try soloing Lady V without an ability timer addon. I did it like twice out of I dunno, 30 tries?

    Admittedly though, since being injured at work some time ago I don't have the reflexes I used to. Now I kinda need the spoiler alerts =(

    If the OP is good as he claims to be though...?

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 09:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    People really need to get over it. Game hasn't been dumbed down. People just are smarter. Want the game to feel more epic? Play the game with no addons.
    This this this, times a million, this.

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    And most of the echo chamber that makes up this thread is picking and choosing it's narrow definition of hard content, and imagining that that counts for the entire game.

    "Driving a car is easy."
    "Oh yeah? Lets see your F1 title"
    This is what annoys me.

    The game has always been bloody easy it was never hard. It was grindy and has been improved over time. The aim has always been to make it casual friendly. Raids were the "END" game product. They went from easy to difficult as we all know. They changed this over time to make it so more and more people could go into raiding as it makes good sense.

    When people say the game is dumbed down they are just angry that other people have more chances to see and do things than we used to get back in the day as blizzard has made changes they don't agree with.

    Thats it nothing more to it than that. Outside of raiding this games never been difficult compared to the rest of the MMO market.

  19. #559
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    The talent tree thing is because no real choice ever existed in talent trees. In some cases, it still doesn't :x
    I really wish people would stop saying this; it's fucking nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  20. #560
    I don't think it was dumbed down...moreseo that Blizzard added too much casual content. They neglected to give an adequate path for casuals to flow into a hardcore setting.

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