I don't need to be compelled or even forced to interact, as most people seemingly do, I'm a generally chatty guy.
I won't deny that there isn't any need to chat in LFR though. But that is the very thing people complain about and yet choose not to do it. Those people complaining about the lack of it are part of the problem themselves.
Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2013-06-27 at 12:20 AM.
---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 02:21 AM ----------
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
i7 3770K OC @ 4.5Ghz; ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 MOBO; Antec Lanboy Air Black Case; 2X GTX 480 SLI OC @ 800/1500 clocks; 16GB 1866Mhz RAM; 256GB CORSAIR SSD; 2X Phobya DC12-400 Pumps; Koolance 370 r1.1 CPU Block; 2X Heatkiller GPU-X GPU Blocks; Tygon Silver 1/2" ID Tubing; Microreservoir
Raid guilds are a dying breed because the game is to easy and anyone can raid making raiding not the cool thing to do but to rather say that you do and tell everyone how it was nothing because throwing yourself at a boss 300 times isn't as much fun as actually doing it.
I go into LFR with guildies and friends all the time, maybe that's why I enjoy LFR.
Maybe you don't understand how much harder it is now to find or create a guild. Numbers of guilds dropped a lot, LFR results in less recruits because of new players not feeling the need to join your guild or they are so used to everything being easy they are not really suited to join an old raiding guild with a lot of experience, raiding in a guild is far less rewarding than before. There is simply less reason to raid with a guild.
If Blizzard is oke with that or you believe the future is LFR/Flex raiding only and raiding guilds are just an old stupid and inconvenient idea then this obviously doesn't matter.
Thanks for your awesome contribution. In another thread you hate on people for hating on WoW before even anyone said something. Maybe check your own post history some time before judging others.
Last edited by Gilian; 2013-06-27 at 12:40 AM.
LFR is a tool, your enjoyment will be based on how you choose to use it. If you go afk then you get nothing out of it. If you go in with friends and chat while playing you will enjoy it more. If you use it to learn mechanics outside of guild raid time you will sharpen your skills during raid. You can use it to tighten your rotation and get that all important muscle memory.
It's just a tool. If someone goes around bashing people's heads in do we arrest the hammer? Blame the playah not the game baby!
Your idea that people are quitting because the game has become too easy is manifestly ridiculous, btw. If you really are 13/13H, you are in the top 0.2% or so of players. Everyone else has been stymied somewhere, or is too cowed by the difficulty of content to even want to attempt it.
As anecdotal evidence i played through Wrath in the same guild 25man raiding. We had around 40 regular raiders and another 20 socials. I was an officer and knew all of them very well. To my knowledge only 3 or 4 of these players r still playing Wow. I have lots of them on my facebook and keep in touch with the entire network through them. Most left throughout cataclysm when LFR was part of the game.
Out of the 3 or 4 still playing i know one has told me that she does LFR and doesnt raid anymore.... she actually told me this a couple of days ago in a facebook chat.
A little more detail about my Wrath guild was the average age was around 35 and we only had 2 or 3 teenagers. We had 7 real life couples and 2 of them met ingame . I tell u this to help u judge the demographic. We are 60 players who didnt leave because we 'grew up' we were all old already! lol I cannot speak for everyone but to generalise we all left the game cos the game overall lost its charm. Nobody i know complained about difficult cata content or LFR, they left cos the whole game wasnt the same anymore, or at least not enough for them to stay.
Therefore imo raiders are much more likely to stop playing altogether rather than drop into LFR or go join other guilds.
Not to say there aren't many of actual jerks, true, but it's not always that obvious. That's not even getting into more serious things - like the inevitable "Hey, New Guy, you did listen to my explanation and you know what you're supposed to do? It was *just* my imagination and I didn't *really* hear you snoring through your mic, right? Cool, let's pull and... wait, what the hell are you... oh great, wipe..." But hey, it's obviously that damn elitist raid leader fault for only asking him 5 times if he understood everything. I mean, seriously, people who get removed from guilds for various reasons (and we do it extremely rarely) sometimes keep telling amazing stories that aren't really grounded in reality. You learn some pretty interesting stuff that didn't really happen, but sounds pretty convincing - and it would fit with those evil elitists anyway.
As for the topic itself - I blame removing separate lockouts more than LFR... or especially applications. Apps are generally there to see if this random person is willing to spend whole two minutes writing few words and can actually understand simple question. Most of the time, these barely matter, although you get few cases which make you go "ok, this has to be trolling". But if someone can't be bothered to do any of those, he certainly wouldn't bother spending hours wiping on some random boss - or listen for tactics longer than few seconds.
Of course, just like with "elitists jerks" mentioned above, there are plenty of guild which have silly requirements - it's mostly case of some low-middle level guilds who believe themselves to be far better than they really are.
As for LFR? I doubt it affects heroic level raiding at all - except for possibly overpowered set bonuses/trinkets, that is. From my experience, if there's a person who stops raiding seriously and just limits themselves to LFR, it's someone who would've otherwise quit the game anyway. People stop playing (or "playing a lot", at least) for various reasons and removing LFR wouldn't really change that.
New people? Again, lockouts. PUGing is pretty much non-existant due to lack of 25 man raiders doing 10s in their spare time or general increase in difficulty of normal. Oh, sure, you keep hearing about those mythical groups that easily go 12/12 and maybe do couple heroics along the way - conveniently ignoring the fact that it's actually one of few "superservers" and it was group made of 13/13H alts. Flexi might help with this, but it remains to be seen if it works out well. There's really no good starting point for fresh people, since LFR has become a pretty toxic environment, with both hostile players and place where you pretty much ignore any and all mechanics while hoping to win gear lottery every week.
And of course, last but not least, Blizzard made some retarded decisions in this expansion. *Once again*, as if they didn't learn from previous expansions. Increasing Cata difficulty after 30% ICC was hilarious (I might be a heroic level raider, but I'm also a realist and realize that sudden shift in difficulty was absurd), and in this one, they had more of those.
Even ignoring the difficulty (Elegon mostly... and Garalon's 6 minute original berserk, which brilliant mind thought that one up...), they removed plenty convenient things for no reason. Reputation gain - nope, do dailes. New method of getting gear from raid bosses... except you need to do dailies. Want to spend you Valor points? Do some dailies. Also, you don't *really* need that mass summoning guild perk, have a ... well, whatever PoS replacement there actually is, I don't even remember. Cauldrons? Pff, convenience is for pussies. Also, best stat food will require - you guessed it - more dailes! Oh, and no more 5 mans with improved loot. Do scenarios. And LFR - except you will have to wait for 3 major patches before we actually make drop rates bearable. And dailies, can't forget the dailies!
It's incredible how Blizz likes to make some retarded decisions in X.0 patches and then it takes 2-3 different ones to fix those issues. Except this isn't 2005 anymore and there are alternatives to WoW and raiding itself.
Last edited by KaPe; 2013-06-27 at 01:56 AM.
I dont know. I dont disagree nor agree. There's quite a few perspectives. As a raider since Vanilla and a current HC raider, I'm running out of interest or time. has nothing to do with "easy", that's a perspective. I'm getting older, and frankly there are other things more worth my interest or time.
The fun I have is with the group I have, the sense of accomplishment and shinies. but..it's waning. Age of the game maybe.
Diablo 2.0 - Wizard - Electrocute build
Everquest Landmark - Alpha
The only fact that is a fact is that everyone is right in their reasons...
No one thing killed it all, its a giant heap of 100's of reasons, all just as different as the people who quit.
Some are burnt, some its too easy, some its too hard, some LRF is enough, some dont like elitists, some dont like nubs... on and on and on. The cycle never stops because there are 2 million or more people that have quit since MoP came out...
The only thing that matters to you is your reason.
My personal reason is because of the shared lock outs destroyed our 25 man progression guild at the end of Wrath.
I have tried to keep playing but find myself logging in for only 3 nights a week for a 10 man with some close friends but in the past few weeks they are all like... whats the point?
I had to agree with them... we no longer raid at all.
This is all coming from a dude that had 2 accounts full up with level 80s in Wrath all in full 251+ gear...
Everything comes to an end...