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  1. #1

    Holy Paladin Crit Stacking?

    I've seen quite a bit of players stacking Crit and though I've seen some off hand comments around it, I haven't really seen any set conclusions about it.

    I'm actually quite curious about how Crit stacking will work out for my raid group. With the new changes to EF, Selfless Healer and Sanctified Wrath, I'm curious to see if crit is viable for 10man raiding. Since I'm just messing around in normals, I figured I'll test it out and see if I like it. Constructive criticism is welcome, as I really am not sure how much Crit I should be aiming for in this build. Or how much mastery I should trade off.

    Without raid buffs I'm currently sitting at:
    Spirit: 12k
    Mastery:28%
    Crit:23%

  2. #2
    I was actually running crit today during the testing and it honestly seemed really strong with the E flame nerf, I wasn't particularly competetive with my guilds disc priest (to be expected with a quality disc using the new set bonuses) I think Sanc wrath is pretty garbage still, Selfless is bugged beyond testing, Sac shield is just bleh, I was running e-flame today and my healing (in 520, and 530) averaged at about 75kish in the 520, and 78ish in the 530, neither of the encounters tested today were really healing intense once everyone got the mechanics down to a niche (we reset the first when nearly killing it and got the second to about 20%)

  3. #3
    During testing I first ran full mastery like currently live and I was struggeling hart to compete with our drood. I ran with EF later on since the rest was meh or bugged. Since EF is not stacking mastery anymore my IH was actually pretty low and I went for Crit and it felt much better.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    A crit build hmmm, intriguing. I suppose it would supplement the shield more with the double heals but... I dunno that seems really unstable to me along with the cut in Mastery. I feel in normals it would ramp up hps just fine but in heroic I still think a Disc Priest/Resto Druid is going to keep the raid in safer waters.

    What does a haste build feel like? I've got no time this week to be PTRing sadly. But with our Hot usefulness decimated it feels like speeding up the process of holy power gain and ticks would be the thing to consider.

    The way things are going if I'm asked to remain holy paladin for my raids, I'm thinking of maybe trying a haste build. But maybe Haste supplemented by crit now? Since...well it seems we're going back to Cataclysm stat priorities with this... (so far)
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  5. #5
    I would be very happy if spirit+haste is viable again in 5.3.

    Paladins stack MP5 and haste AS GOD MEANT IT since wotlk

    Also it feels like healing through molasses with low haste, but mastery is just too powerful to ignore at the moment.

  6. #6
    Even today on live haste is slightly better then mastery (considering no overheal etc). Mastery produces no overheal and is mana neutral, while haste actually costs more mana. I have been running with the 25.03% haste breakpoint since 5.2 and feel very happy with it. More haste also gives more trinket/meta proccs so I guess it might be viable.

  7. #7
    Was anyone able to confirm that the EF initial heal nerf was reverted? On live my initial hits for 90k-ish and on PTR it hits for 60k-ish. I character copied my toon so we have everything exactly the same.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceresc View Post
    Was anyone able to confirm that the EF initial heal nerf was reverted? On live my initial hits for 90k-ish and on PTR it hits for 60k-ish. I character copied my toon so we have everything exactly the same.
    Its still in place, keep your eyes open for the next build release which I'd imagine is when it will get fixed, doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd hotfix

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    Even today on live haste is slightly better then mastery (considering no overheal etc). Mastery produces no overheal and is mana neutral, while haste actually costs more mana. I have been running with the 25.03% haste breakpoint since 5.2 and feel very happy with it. More haste also gives more trinket/meta proccs so I guess it might be viable.
    Its not viable unless you're solo healing 5 mans, which i guess is about your skill level sadly. You need to stop posting this crap before someone starts believing(I'm actually shocked you're not using the Glyph of Illumination as well).

    Understand that a lot of our spells are either not affected by haste, and that does that do are easily sniped+even if they weren't snipped or overhealed at all they would BARELY outweigh the loss of mastery(on those spells, per total u still lose). Also understand that while haste does affect RPPM trinkets, due to their random nature and internal protection its very likely that someone with 10% less haste then you will proc them 20% more then you just because luck shined for him.

    Its all fun and games, but if you would be gemmed/reforged properly even with that fairly bad choice of gear(4 p t15 instead of mastery gloves/legs) you could have 3% more mastery and that would help you a lot more.


    @OP. Even with the nerf to EF, Mastery still remains more valuable then crit as least as of the current PTR patch.
    Last edited by Aladya; 2013-06-25 at 04:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Not going to lie, aside from Tsulong I never understood the point or value of EF haste breakpoints. For Tsulong you could get a 23 tick EF if you didn't overwrite it whatsoever, but that required an almost perfect rotation within your 6 seconds.

    I never did get to find out if the healing spells you did would carry over as damage spells once he phased either (I've heard every sort of rumor), but I would try to get high-tick EF's out early so it wouldn't be wasted.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-06-25 at 04:14 PM. Reason: 23 tick, not 25 tick

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    even with that fairly bad choice of gear(4 p t15 instead of mastery gloves/legs) you could have 3% more mastery and that would help you a lot more.
    Whilst I don't disagree with the rest of your post, not everyone running with 4p T15 is through choice.

    I am still waiting for Animus Legs and Durumu gloves which have never dropped in our raids. I would replace it in a heartbeat if either dropped, as I am sure (at least hopefully) most others using it would.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    ...
    I never proposed a haste build. I just said it scales better in theory. Maybe I should have been more clearly. Haste would provide in a "vacuum" higher amount of healing then mastery or crit does. Even on instant spells, since it reduces the GCD. BUT (big BUT) Mastery outshines because I basically adds more effective health. Same goes for crit. Absorbs work in "real" life much better. Hence mastery is king.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Whilst I don't disagree with the rest of your post, not everyone running with 4p T15 is through choice.
    Not only that but it depends on your raid comp and fight. I run 10s and we don't particularly focus the tanks unless we get worried. I've seen beacon do 20% of my healing on certain fights. The bonus is junk for 25s but considerably better for 10s.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Not only that but it depends on your raid comp and fight. I run 10s and we don't particularly focus the tanks unless we get worried. I've seen beacon do 20% of my healing on certain fights. The bonus is junk for 25s but considerably better for 10s.
    I run 10s as well, but I still consider t15 4piece to be sub-optimal unless you are a beacon-swapping fiend. Beacon will always show up high in your healing, whether you have the 4piece or not. But Illuminated Healing is pretty much always at the top of effective healing done. Looking just at that, without going any deeper, mastery is obviously stronger than the transferred heals that boost beacon up the list.

    It stands to reason, then, that even for 10s, the mastery pieces are better than the tier 15 4set.

  15. #15
    Another "the sky is falling lets see what wild ideas i can come up with for stats" thread im guessing?

    I'm going to reserve judgement, and just say hold your horses and pump the breaks a bit before trying to convince yourself (or others for that matter) that crit is better then mastery.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  16. #16
    Its still too early on the ptr.
    /Agree with the poster above.

  17. #17
    Haste sucks. As for crit, I could see myself dropping some spirit for it, but not mastery.

  18. #18
    so crit might be what we are going to look for after mastery in 5.4 if the ptr continues as it is?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    so crit might be what we are going to look for after mastery in 5.4 if the ptr continues as it is?
    We already look for crit after mastery

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    We already look for crit after mastery
    This. They would have to make some significant changes to make haste worthwhile for us.

    Some go Mastery>Crit>Spirit and reforge out of spirit to crit....I've never seen a noticeable enough increase from crit to make it worth that though.

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