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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    just wow, not that many dailies in wotlk....

    Someone never stepped foot in icecrown or stormpeaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Yeah I think people have repressed memories of 3.2 and the Sons of Hodir
    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    Even the dailies it launched with, all those pvp dailies in Grizzly hills, the Argent Crusade stuff in Zul'Drak,Son of Hodir and Frostborn in Storm Peaks, Knights of the Ebon Blade and those totally random dailies in icecrown, then there was the Kalu'ak across 3 zones, everyday flying out to do that 1 daily in howling fjord for the explorer's league rep too, then there was the professions dailies.

    I just don't understand how people don't remember this
    You guys all missed the point. The key difference between dailies now and dailies then is that WotLK dailies awarded vanity items, patterns, and/or the ability to purchase head/shoulder enchantments. For this reason the grind was finite. Once you had your glacial bag pattern and shoulder enchantments there was no reason to ever speak to the Sons of Hodir again. That's not the case now. I hit exalted with the Tillers in my second week of play, but if I skip a day with them I've lost out on Ironpaw tokens that are needed to buy raid food as well as those charms that award bonus loot rolls. Now if I miss a night of dailies I feel penalized. That was never the case with WotLK. When I got tired of argent tournament dailies I would skip them for a few months knowing that some day I could go back and grind for mounts and/or pets if I felt like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Who really cares what someone who was never good at the game thinks?
    Blizzard does, because there are millions of someones who were never good at the game, and at $180/year that's hundreds of millions of dollars that they're missing out on by dismissing their opinions.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 11:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    1) He was the one who loved making fun of the "go go go go GO!" mentality of Wrath LFD gameplay, and taunted how players loved the relaxed nature of Wrath and loved to play up how stupid they were vs older players used to Vanilla/BC mechanics.... and yet he's NOW claiming that Wrath is the best expansion. That's right, there's a LOT more than those things in Wrath that made it great.
    You can be dissatisfied with players without hating the game. Just because mechanics permitted the "go go go" mentality and allowed you to succeed in spite of "stupid" players (I think you meant to say "ignorant," BTW) doesn't mean the mechanics in and of themselves are bad. I kind of liked how the game back then didn't penalize the eight players in the raid who were giving it their all because two of them would rather be elsewhere. That doesn't mean I was happy with those two players, but I was happy for those eight (of which I was one).

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    2) The people here who have been cheering him on behind him at every video since his beginning saying "Yeah! He's totally right!" - but ONLY because they happen to adhere to their own personal opinion. Once the guy talks about a few problems, BLAM - he's now the enemy! /sigh
    His videos are comic. Exaggeration is a key element of comedy. Unfortunately some people have trouble distinguishing between comedy and reality.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-06-25 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #162
    Well that was a waste of time,

    He made no coherent points, a lot of hesitation in why he doesn't like something and often answered with "I don't know" or "it's nostalgia!" He wants a reason to not like WoW, but in reality he is just tired of it.

    The man needs to take a break,

  3. #163
    Deleted
    Shocking YouTuber, horrible monotonous voice.

    Says himself right away he hasn't played Mists of Pandaria outside of leveling.

    Pointless video aimed at grabbing views with the shock appeal
    "OH NO WOWCRENDOR HAS WOW IN HIS NAME AND DOESNT LIKE WOW ANYMORE!?"

    Disregard.

  4. #164
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You mean it was in the hands of Thottbot and then Wowhead..right? Because that's all anyone did back then. Quests were so poorly designed and explained that you had no choice but to use these sites in order to play the game. It's evidence of how poorly something is executed when you need to use an outside website in order to have a clue where to go for quests.
    There was still a difference between EXPLORING the world back then and LINEAR levelling design which we have now. No, it wasnt perfect back then, but yes, it was a much more immersive and challenging gaming experience.

    As for the Thottbott and wowhead discussion... the entire game of Wow is all about referring to out of game websites to prgress yourself. Sure, some sites existed to aid questing. Raiders refer to strat sites for bosses, they use videos to learn fights. Best PvP builds, go to websites. best Arena setups, go to websites. Want the best PvE builds for raiding, go to websites.

    U cannot prove your point by using a major part of Wow culture as an argument against it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Linear means you have no choice but to follow a path they have created for you. It's just completely false to state that MoP works that way at all. You have no choice on your starting zone, but you have a choice on what quests to do, what hubs to go to, and when to go to a new zone at this point. You can skip plenty of things, go different directions, etc. While this doesn't provide a lot of variety, it's certainly not linear.
    u dont understand what linear is...

    Linear is when u play through a game down an accepted and predetermined route. And Wow questing in todays Wow is very much linear by comparison to old Wows questing... anyone who tries to argue against this is simply stupid.

    Questing used to offer the player many more options of where to go, your path was much more in your own hands. Now its laid out on a path for u.

    This is much to do with Blizzard have realised nobody cares much about levelling now, they just wanna get to lev90 ASAP and theyve designed the game to cater for this. Some call this a step forward, others think this has ruined a fun part of the game. Im not here to argue which is better, im simply framing whats different now to back then.

    that doesnt change the fact that levelling/questing is totally different now to what is was back then.

    And on this point i think Crendor has a valid point..

  5. #165
    Deleted
    sage

    oh wait doesnt work here.

    His Voice is painfully annoying.

  6. #166
    I think Crendor has some point but I think Blizzard is way better off beating his expectations and not just keeping the bar with that, cause it happens.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Spraytwist View Post
    sage

    oh wait doesnt work here.

    His Voice is painfully annoying.
    So if he sounded like Casey Kasem his opinions will instantly have gained merit, right? This mentality illustrates how bad decisions are made.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You guys all missed the point. The key difference between dailies now and dailies then is that WotLK dailies awarded vanity items, patterns, and/or the ability to purchase head/shoulder enchantments. For this reason the grind was finite. Once you had your glacial bag pattern and shoulder enchantments there was no reason to ever speak to the Sons of Hodir again. That's not the case now. I hit exalted with the Tillers in my second week of play, but if I skip a day with them I've lost out on Ironpaw tokens that are needed to buy raid food as well as those charms that award bonus loot rolls. Now if I miss a night of dailies I feel penalized. That was never the case with WotLK. When I got tired of argent tournament dailies I would skip them for a few months knowing that some day I could go back and grind for mounts and/or pets if I felt like it.
    You can purchase food off the auction house.

    As well if you're in a guild where you're required to bring your own food the requirement hasn't really changed that much over the years.

    Back then, you farmed the items you need. Now, you do dailies for them. The only difference is that you need to do dailies instead of farm, which means you not only have to kill mobs or do whatever, but you get paid for doing it.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    You can purchase food off the auction house.

    As well if you're in a guild where you're required to bring your own food the requirement hasn't really changed that much over the years.

    Back then, you farmed the items you need. Now, you do dailies for them. The only difference is that you need to do dailies instead of farm, which means you not only have to kill mobs or do whatever, but you get paid for doing it.
    But the currency for food was not shared with the currency for vanity items back then. If you did the Dalaran cooking daily (there was only one per day and it only took a couple of minutes) you got northern spices (for food) as well as a cooking award (for vanity items and recipes). So you didn't feel like you were depriving your guild of food when you were grinding for vanity items. Also the prices on that stuff on the AH are sky high. This into the feeling of being penalized. Either you spend 20 minutes each night doing Tiller dailies or you pony up tens of thousands of gold for the food you're going to need on this week's progression raid.

  10. #170
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    u dont understand what linear is...

    Linear is when u play through a game down an accepted and predetermined route. And Wow questing in todays Wow is very much linear by comparison to old Wows questing... anyone who tries to argue against this is simply stupid.
    1) I would respect your opinion if you could refrain from insults. Typically they are indicative of a weak argument, which is what you have.

    2) You clearly don't understand what linear means in the connotation pertaining to a video game.

    3) By your definition, every MMO is linear. You don't get to magically choose to be different. You can't decide you want to level in a level 50 zone when you are level 1. It is all literally linear. You are heading to the end game, in any fashion. You go from point A to point B. The middle is irrelevant. This is your definition.

    That is also not what anyone is talking about, ever. I suggest less haste and insults and more clear thinking prior to posting.
    BAD WOLF

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    The entire re-design of questing went hand in hand with the Questhelper. Questing is much mroe linear overall whether u have Questhelper switched on or off. In the old days quests were scattered all over the place in no particular order, after the Questhelper redesign everything was moved around to ensure questing was linear.

    This overall redesign has changed questing from an exercise of exploration to an exercise of following a linear path.
    Old quest progression was horrible, but I guess some people liked that. You could jump around to different zones and then just end up with a whole bunch of random quest lines stuck in your log. I remember being sent to Sepulcher from a Barrens quest. Why was I sent there? What about all those other Barrens quest lines I was on? Nope, just a pointless delivery quest that took you out of all the quest stories in the Barrens and stuck you on the other continent.

    There were quite a few quests like that in vanilla. Quests I learned to avoid because they led to nowhere. I guess one person's crappy quest flow is another persons avenue for exploration.

    I guess some people like quests scattered all over the place in no particular order. I prefer having coherent stories and plots on my questing.

  12. #172
    Deleted
    There's far too much nostalgia in the video. Saying VoA was fun and good was my favourite part. There was nothing fun about VoA loot pinatas.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    Even the dailies it launched with, all those pvp dailies in Grizzly hills, the Argent Crusade stuff in Zul'Drak,Son of Hodir and Frostborn in Storm Peaks, Knights of the Ebon Blade and those totally random dailies in icecrown, then there was the Kalu'ak across 3 zones, everyday flying out to do that 1 daily in howling fjord for the explorer's league rep too, then there was the professions dailies.

    I just don't understand how people don't remember this
    Yep. I like Crendor, but his rant is completely off-base and confused.

    Back during Wrath dailies were manditory for raiders. Manditory! Don't have Sons of Hodir rep - no shoulder enchants. Don't have certain other factions - no head enchant.

    In MoP they aren't manditory - they just speed up the gearing process and unlock enchantments that you could get off someone else on the AH anyway. If you're raiding you can completely skip the dailies since even the gear from MSV outstrips any Rep rewards you're likely to get within the next month or so.

    People just need something to complain about, even if its something completely stupid. Like all those people in early Cata whining that they were 'forced' to do Archaelogy because there were a few decent weapons you could get - despite the fact you could get better weapons from raiding.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Either you spend 20 minutes each night doing Tiller dailies or you pony up tens of thousands of gold for the food you're going to need on this week's progression raid.
    Only 1 Tiller daily rewards a cooking token, so just do that one. Planting crops+1 daily takes me >10 mins.

    Having watched both the videos presented in the thread, I can't say I agree with much either because they miss the context of why these "bad" features were added.

    So lets take LF as a concept, well LFG was introduced in WotLK because THE COMMUNITY (that's us) started using an addon called GearScore to determine somebodies worth. If you didn't have the gear then you became a social pariah because the PUG community was only interested in people with XXX GS (now known as ilvl).

    Once we went down the LFG rabbit hole then new problems started to manifest because you could actively get away with being a dick now due to the anonymity, something in the past you wouldn't be able to do because you were on a closed server, if people didn't like you then that's your character progression ended or you pay for a name change.

    So now the communities all hyped that the LF crowd is full of mouth breathing fucktards who don't give a shit about anything, why they are playing at all is a mystery to me.....but whatever it's irrelevant. Why is it irrelevant? Well because it's easy to fix this, you find friends like you used to and you play the game with them. Don't like the LF scene? Well get the fuck out and find a fucking guild!

    People want to complain about social isolation and lack of interaction but it's not Blizzard's jobs to make you develop social skills, that's your parents. Hopefully Flex might fix most of this by giving casual's something that's worth finding other people you can at least tolerate to do them with.

    But still why should Blizzard have to force people to make friends? Surely that's your own fucking problem and if you can't then don't play an MMO, it's not your genre.

  15. #175
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    I agree in some points and disagree in others.

    I DISAGREE

    -Linear quests... i do agree that is kind of annoying and boring cause you have to do these then these and then these..., but i actually like the fact that in one zone have 1 big story, not like in GW2 that... i have 1 quests that is.. hey help me kill these spiders cause they are killing my dogs! and then you go to another quest giver in the same zone and he's like... hey could you kill those bandits they are stealing my products, but... one don't have anything to do with the other!!!!, at least with these linear quests we have a big story, like the war between the Jinyu and the hozen, there we have a big story that explain the conflict between these two and we see how they take a side, that's pretty cool!

    -Raids: the lastests raids have been good, you could compare ToT with Ulduar (Ulduar is still better)

    I AGREE

    -Lore: Is true that Wrath was more "lore-wise" epic, but that's because we actually have a big story behind it, and they just had to develope it, but with MoP everything was new, new races, new characters, new lore, new everything, in Wrath we had:

    -Same Mayor Characters
    -New Minor Character who were working with/for the Mayor Character we all knew
    -Some New Races
    -Some Known Races
    -New lore for the things we already knew (is more interesting to see more lore of someone or something that we know than something totally new)

    In others words we had a little bit of everything, that's why it was more epic

    -Daily Quests: i don't have much to add here, but i think Blizz at least should create the dailys areas like the Firelands dailys at leas you could feel that you're making progress and not just doing the same over and over again

  16. #176
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    Daily Quests: i don't have much to add here, but i think Blizz at least should create the dailys areas like the Firelands dailys at leas you could feel that you're making progress and not just doing the same over and over again
    Phasing makes a lot less sense when you stop to think about it and contributes to people being segregated and the world not feeling alive. They chose to present 'dynamic' events in real time. So you still get your progress, but you will miss out on it if you aren't playing when it is new.

    Ex: ToT and Barrens stuff that changes over time.
    BAD WOLF

  17. #177
    I watched a little bit of it earlier, and he mentioned the lack of reward from leveling ever since talent trees were condensed in Cata/MoP. I think this is a double-edged sword, since the new talent system is excellent for end-game, but awful for leveling, due to the perceived lack of reward from gaining levels and the lack of customisation.

    Extra Credits did some great topics talking about this recently where they discussed how the way something "feels" in a game is often more important than how technically "better" it is for gameplay. The new talent system is a great example of this, much like the talent system in Diablo III. Both of them work much better from an end-game perspective, and they strip out the illusion of choice we had before, but the game hasn't compensated in any way by giving us neat little points we can click on to see our stats increasing. The talent system *feels* less rewarding, even though from a design perspective it's strictly better in pretty much all areas.

    But yeah, I haven't seen the rest of it so far. For what it's worth I don't think Crendor is a fantastic critic, though, at least not when he's talking off the top of his head. He does often have some good points to make, and he's pretty unbiased about it, but he's not great at articulating them clearly and concisely, and he doesn't often think things all the way through. I think he'd benefit a lot from scripting, or at least bullet-pointing his discussions like this.

  18. #178
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    His opinion is valid. Wotlk was the best time of the game for me aswell however I'd never want to go back to that screwed up game it was before. The game is changing and so are the players. If I was in middle or highschool I'd play 16 hours a day raid in a hardcore guild. But now I'm an adult and have to take responsibility with real life so stuff like LFG and LFR keeps me playing. If it wasnt for LFR and Oqueue addon (for rated bg pugs since I play on a dead server where it is impossible to pug anything) I'd quit. Oh and the linear quests well I do enjoy those more and always used quest helper/thottbot anyway so nothing really changed.

  19. #179
    Cant blizzard just get the best parts from every expansion and put them into a single expansion... I also agree about Wotlk being the best expansion so far.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Only 1 Tiller daily rewards a cooking token, so just do that one. Planting crops+1 daily takes me >10 mins.
    You're disregarding the fact that those dailies also award charms and VP. Since Blizzard consciously decided to forego portals in MoP, it's going to take another 5-10 minutes to fly to a different set of dailies. Because I'm already in the area I feel compelled to do the dailies in the vicinity as well. Again, I can choose not to do them, but then I'm penalized by having to fly somewhere else or by missing out on loot rolls. The key here is that regardless of what I choose I feel penalized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    So now the communities all hyped that the LF crowd is full of mouth breathing fucktards who don't give a shit about anything, why they are playing at all is a mystery to me.....but whatever it's irrelevant. Why is it irrelevant? Well because it's easy to fix this, you find friends like you used to and you play the game with them. Don't like the LF scene? Well get the fuck out and find a fucking guild!
    What's wrong with the term "new players?" I think it has a friendlier ring to it than "mouth breathing fucktards who don't give a shit about anything," don't you? Instead of complaining about these players why don't you try mentoring them? If they can't be mentored then just /ignore them and you won't have to deal with them ever again. You might even get lucky once in a while and make a new friend. If this is how you're regarding your fellow players it's no wonder you don't enjoy LF*.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-06-25 at 07:52 PM.

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