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  1. #1
    High Overlord Riordrian's Avatar
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    Should i go Fury ?

    So i got my second 1h weapon today (hero scenario) and i tried fury before and think its fun but i don´t know if i schould go fury and when i do what i have to change (gems reforge etc)

    Armory:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...aedus/advanced

    thanks in advance for the help
    Last edited by Riordrian; 2013-06-15 at 09:46 AM.

  2. #2
    At your itemlvl arms/fury are about the same, if you have a better 2H go arms else stay fury. You might want to stay fury anyway to get better at the spec as it pulls ahead at 520-530 ilvl.

    Gemming between fury/arms is about the same only on blue sockets with 60 strength bonus or less fury will go full crit while arms goes crit/hit if they don't overcap hit. You don't have to change anything looks good, dancing steel on the offhand if you can afford it.
    Last edited by bigbad; 2013-06-15 at 09:58 AM.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Riordrian's Avatar
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    okay thanks for the help

  4. #4
    Keyboard Turner
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    i think fury is great, plus, on the other hand, dual wielding 2 2h weapons? gnarly as.

  5. #5
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    At your itemlvl arms/fury are about the same, if you have a better 2H go arms else stay fury. You might want to stay fury anyway to get better at the spec as it pulls ahead at 520-530 ilvl.

    Gemming between fury/arms is about the same only on blue sockets with 60 strength bonus or less fury will go full crit while arms goes crit/hit if they don't overcap hit. You don't have to change anything looks good, dancing steel on the offhand if you can afford it.
    502*....Don't know where you are getting the mis-information on this.

  6. #6
    Arms isn't that bad real breakpoint lies at ~510 but it gets noticeable at 520-530 where it is about 3-10k behind. It's mostly my personal experience being arms at the start of the tier and just comparing WoL but if you don't belief me check the T14hc simcraft with 506 ilvl.
    Last edited by bigbad; 2013-06-20 at 07:05 AM. Reason: silly typo

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    Arms isn't that bad real breakpoint lies at ~510 but it gets noticeable at 520-530 where it is about 3-10k behind. It's mostly my personal experience being arms at the start of the tier and just comparing WoL but if you don't belief me check the T14hc simcraft with 506 ilvl.
    Please stop pulling numbers out of your ass. The difference is much much larger. If you are only noticing a 10k DPS increase between the two, that is due to Arms being a mostly brain dead spec, while fury is one of the harder(est) specs to play at 100% skill.

    The real breakpoint will depend on a huge number of factors, the most major (or the one with the largest range of impact) of which is going to be skill. Excellent fury warriors will be able to do so at lower gear levels than people who have never played fury this expac. The next is crit buff. Not all comps in 10m have the crit buff for every boss, sadly. That is going to hurt fury wayyyyy more than arms, especially at lower gear levels. Trinkets matter too. The ilvl of your weapons is going to make a bigger difference than that of gear too. Also, how well your gear is itemized. Is it just whatever you get, or is it good gear with crit/mastery on it.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-20 at 08:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Sigh when I switched specs at 529 ilvl I was at 165k as arms and 174k as fury according to simcraft, its not like I'm pulling numbers out of my ass. First week as fury I was kinda crap at the spec but now the numbers in game are pretty close to the sims. In BiS gear the difference is 12-14k so why are you bashing my numbers so hard? You could argue that simcraft isn't 100% accurate which I completely agree on but it's pretty decent as far as I can tell.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord
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    Perhaps he´s pushing your numbers so hard because last time I checked simcraft produced more than a 15k discrepancy...
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  10. #10
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    Sigh when I switched specs at 529 ilvl I was at 165k as arms and 174k as fury according to simcraft, its not like I'm pulling numbers out of my ass. First week as fury I was kinda crap at the spec but now the numbers in game are pretty close to the sims. In BiS gear the difference is 12-14k so why are you bashing my numbers so hard? You could argue that simcraft isn't 100% accurate which I completely agree on but it's pretty decent as far as I can tell.
    Going to white knight him a little bit here -- pre 5.3 the discrepancy was smaller (due to lack of item upgrades). The discrepancy has grown since.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Going to white knight him a little bit here -- pre 5.3 the discrepancy was smaller (due to lack of item upgrades). The discrepancy has grown since.
    Also RPPM trinkets, legendary cloak, and the fights themselves. Unlike in T13 where there were a few fights that favored Arms 2 target cleave (Dogs, garalon, etc). Oh and TF weapons.

    Every SEP except for overcap hit and overcap expertise on OH is worth over .7 for Fury at the higher gear levels, fury scales much better than arms.

    Again, Sim-C is not a good metric for absolute fury numbers.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-20 at 09:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Please stop pulling numbers out of your ass. The difference is much much larger. If you are only noticing a 10k DPS increase between the two, that is due to Arms being a mostly brain dead spec, while fury is one of the harder(est) specs to play at 100% skill.

    The real breakpoint will depend on a huge number of factors, the most major (or the one with the largest range of impact) of which is going to be skill. Excellent fury warriors will be able to do so at lower gear levels than people who have never played fury this expac. The next is crit buff. Not all comps in 10m have the crit buff for every boss, sadly. That is going to hurt fury wayyyyy more than arms, especially at lower gear levels. Trinkets matter too. The ilvl of your weapons is going to make a bigger difference than that of gear too. Also, how well your gear is itemized. Is it just whatever you get, or is it good gear with crit/mastery on it.
    The guy you're insulting is entirely correct. Arms was definitely better at the start of the tier, and it doesn't really get overtaken by more than a couple thousand dps until you're geared in mostly ToT normal items. It parses far lower than its potential because it's played by mostly bad and/or undergeared players and it can't burst AoE like TG can with a CDed BS. If any decent warriors were playing it, you'd see parses within 20k of top fury parses even in near BiS gear on single target fights. A 10k difference at 530 ilvl is all there is.
    Last edited by Xanthan; 2013-06-21 at 03:44 AM.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthan View Post
    The guy you're insulting is entirely correct. Arms was definitely better at the start of the tier, and it doesn't really get overtaken by more than a couple thousand dps until you're geared in mostly ToT normal items. It parses far lower than its potential because it's played by mostly bad and/or undergeared players and it can't burst AoE like TG can with a CDed BS. If any decent warriors were playing it, you'd see parses within 20k of top fury parses even in near BiS gear on single target fights. A 10k difference at 530 ilvl is all there is.
    On the closest thing to a patchwerk fight we have this tier the difference between the #1 West fury rank on Durumu and the #1 west arms rank was over 22k. There are over 30 ranks that are over 200k for fury, and none over 195k for arms. That #1 arms warrior has 2 item levels on the #1 fury.

    As well, there are no fights that favor arms and it's type of cleave this tier.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-21 at 04:11 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Please stop pulling numbers out of your ass. The difference is much much larger. If you are only noticing a 10k DPS increase between the two, that is due to Arms being a mostly brain dead spec, while fury is one of the harder(est) specs to play at 100% skill.

    The real breakpoint will depend on a huge number of factors, the most major (or the one with the largest range of impact) of which is going to be skill. Excellent fury warriors will be able to do so at lower gear levels than people who have never played fury this expac. The next is crit buff. Not all comps in 10m have the crit buff for every boss, sadly. That is going to hurt fury wayyyyy more than arms, especially at lower gear levels. Trinkets matter too. The ilvl of your weapons is going to make a bigger difference than that of gear too. Also, how well your gear is itemized. Is it just whatever you get, or is it good gear with crit/mastery on it.
    Fury is hard? Since when, exactly?

    Not even trolling, stopped playing on Cata, can't remenber warriors ever being hard up till that point so what changed so much?

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    Fury is hard? Since when, exactly?

    Not even trolling, stopped playing on Cata, can't remenber warriors ever being hard up till that point so what changed so much?
    A ton. RB is now charge base instead of only usable while enraged and on a CD. Rage gain is changed around. Slam is gone for fury. Tons more.

  16. #16
    See this question a lot (I've even asked it myself) and people always refer to ilvl and then there's debate about what ilvl and then people getting snarky and so on and so forth. Instead of ilvl it may be more beneficial to point to a % level of crit instead (eg. once you reach 25% crit unbuffed fury will start to pull ahead - I pulled the 25% out my ass I'd guess that it's around that mark but I'm sure there must be a way to figure it out).

    Saying one is better than the other based purely on ilvl could be misleading to a certain extent based on what gear people have. There's quite a bit of haste/mastery gear about so if you're unlucky you could potentially have a respectable ilvl but relatively low level of crit. Once crit reaches a certain point then arms can't compete at the moment, but prior to that point the difference isn't that huge (I'm talking for people not in hardcore progression). Crit and rng associated with it have a huge impact on fury, lower level of crit, lower chance to enrage, potential for wildly fluctuating dps on any given attempt. Once you've got enough crit to almost guarantee and enrage every bloodthirst fury is going to pull ahead.

    Comparing the current sims for t14h to t15h you basically see all that. t14h less crit, both specs roughly the same. t15h with a lot more crit fury pulls ahead. Using logs as a point of comparison is difficult because there are so few arms logs in comparison to fury.

    In terms of the op, it's not in english but I think he's got 21% crit, so it's likely that he'll be better off staying arms for a little while longer.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    On the closest thing to a patchwerk fight we have this tier the difference between the #1 West fury rank on Durumu and the #1 west arms rank was over 22k. There are over 30 ranks that are over 200k for fury, and none over 195k for arms. That #1 arms warrior has 2 item levels on the #1 fury.

    As well, there are no fights that favor arms and it's type of cleave this tier.
    Selection bias. Like I said, which you chose to ignore, the number of Arms samples from decent players is incredibly low compared to the number of Fury parses. It isn't a fair comparison in the slightest. A 20k+ difference is also totally expected at near BiS gear. It is *not* that wide of a gap at even 530 ilvl (10k or so maybe), and it's nonexistent at 520 or below. I went Arms at the start of this tier and set the #1 parse on Durumu by 10k over the top fury parse, which stood for weeks. Nobody is arguing that Fury is better than Arms at top gear levels, but you're just plain wrong if you think there's a huge difference between the 2 in normal mode gear.

  18. #18
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Want to see the best and worst parse on heroic lei shen for arms warrior 25 man?
    # Player name Class & Spec Guild Realm DPS(e) Damage done % Date Time
    1 Buniboo
    Ascension US-Barthilas 173730
    109 770 154 4.8 % 06-19 10:31
    Page 1 of 1

    That is it. If you kill heroic lei shen as arms, you are gaurnteed to parse at leaste #2 on 25. You can die on the pull and parse on this fight.

    On 10, you can be number 3 on the fight if you die on the pull as well (only 2 arms warriors have killed heroic lei shen.)

    Broken. Save yourself the trouble. Learn fury while your gear is bad (502). You will out perform your arms counter-parts very quickly.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthan View Post
    Selection bias. Like I said, which you chose to ignore, the number of Arms samples from decent players is incredibly low compared to the number of Fury parses. It isn't a fair comparison in the slightest. A 20k+ difference is also totally expected at near BiS gear. It is *not* that wide of a gap at even 530 ilvl (10k or so maybe), and it's nonexistent at 520 or below. I went Arms at the start of this tier and set the #1 parse on Durumu by 10k over the top fury parse, which stood for weeks. Nobody is arguing that Fury is better than Arms at top gear levels, but you're just plain wrong if you think there's a huge difference between the 2 in normal mode gear.
    I've seen you present no evidence whatsoever to support your claim, and there is much evidence to prove otherwise. (Scaling, fights favoring fury, logs, sims-even though not as accurate as they could be they are still useful, ranks, etc.)

  20. #20
    Ghost crawler said that there is nothing wrong in Arms.. Just that it is under represented! Unless you are saying that GC is retarded?
    Last edited by senturion; 2013-06-22 at 08:15 AM.

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