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  1. #1281
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    No analogy is perfect, you take advantage of the imperfection of such to make a flawed point. The point of saying value is of life, not of monetary concern, but that was the best analogy I could think of on the spot.
    Life isn't inherently valuable

    And also life needs to be defined, which is hard to do and will almost always end up being arbitrary

  2. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    It does not matter. The mother is simply the host of the fetus. It is not biologically the mother.
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    "Bah-weep-graaaaagnah wheep nini bong!"
    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since October 22, 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  3. #1283
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    You're wrong, it is. A human being begins when the human life cycle begins, when the sperm fertilizes the egg and the zygote is formed. That is where the human begins.
    You're conflating human being and human again. They are not the same at all.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  4. #1284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    It does not matter. The mother is simply the host of the fetus. It is not biologically the mother.
    Sorry what?

  5. #1285
    Brewmaster Gemini Sunrise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    It does not matter. The mother is simply the host of the fetus. It is not biologically apart of the mother.
    One of these things is not like the other... (well, actually they are all the same)

  6. #1286
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    You're wrong, it is. A human being begins when the human life cycle begins, when the sperm fertilizes the egg and the zygote is formed. That is where the human begins.
    I would say a human being begins when it is an individual being. You know, kind of the definition of 'being'.

  7. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Which is why transferring a foetus from one host to another happens -all the time-, right?
    By it I meant the fetus, btw.

  8. #1288
    Grumash what defines a human being for you?

    Not a biological person but a real being with innate rights?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I would say a human being begins when it is an individual being. You know, kind of the definition of 'being'.
    It is its own individual. It is not the mother, and it is not the father. It is a completely new human.

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    This leads to the argument of abortion being murder or not. Spoiler alert: It is.
    That is false. In terms of both language and law Murder is described as having to be 'unlawful'. Abortions are legal, thus it is not murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Nothing happens. Still doesn't give her the right to kill a human being.
    The 'human being'/pre-human in question is only 'alive' due to it being a parasite within the woman's body. Thus, the woman's autonomy trumps the foetus' right to 'life'.

  11. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Sometimes I wish some of the people in this thread were aborted.
    This reminds me of a quote by former Prime Minister of Australia Gough Whitlam.

    "Mister Whitlam, what is your opinion of abortion?"

    "Well in your case, it should have been retrospective."
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #1292
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    It does not matter. The mother is simply the host of the fetus. It is not biologically apart of the mother.
    It is a biological part of the mother, physically attached to her body via biological tissues.

  13. #1293
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Sorry what?
    I should have clarified what I meant by it. It being the fetus. The fetus is not the mother.

  14. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  15. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    It is a biological part of the mother, physically attached to her body via biological tissues.
    It is connected/inside of the mother, but it is not the mother.

  16. #1296
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    I should have clarified what I meant by it. It being the fetus. The fetus is not the mother.
    Why? You've never bothered clarifying any of the other statements you give.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Life isn't inherently valuable

    And also life needs to be defined, which is hard to do and will almost always end up being arbitrary
    Your values are different than mine, do not state your values as everyone's values.

    It just boggles my mind that anyone would place the value of getting sex without worry over the value of a child (or for you nitpickers what can become a child).

  18. #1298
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    No analogy is perfect, you take advantage of the imperfection of such to make a flawed point. The point of saying value is of life, not of monetary concern, but that was the best analogy I could think of on the spot.
    If you're analogy is so bad that it can be twisted with very little effort, you were better off just stating your point in place of an analogy.

    Still, I'm amused that you would complain about flawed points after your hilariously wrong reading of my words which generated the criminal fetus idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Sometimes I wish some of the people in this thread were aborted.
    I lol'd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Mobius strip still has 2 sides. you can pinch 2 fingers on both sides of the ribbon at the same spot
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  19. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    It is its own individual. It is not the mother, and it is not the father. It is a completely new human.
    It is both the mother and the father. It is not an individual. To be an individual, one must not be biologically/physically attached to another.

    Siamese twins, for example; one individual, two brains.

    Relinquish your mystical concepts of humanity.

  20. #1300
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    Your values are different than mine, do not state your values as everyone's values.
    You mean like you were doing when you said foeti are human beings with intrinsic value? Hypocrite.

    It just boggles my mind that anyone would place the value of getting sex without worry over the value of a child (or for you nitpickers what can become a child).
    Good for you. Why do you feel you should impose this on women that don't share your values?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

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