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  1. #61
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    A little off topic but I have to disagree here, lock defensive abilities are definitely OP in PvE. My alt lock ran normal ToT the other week and through a combination of Sacrificial Pacts and Soul Leech - I took almost no raid damage at all, on any fight. Fel Armor just makes all that 10% stronger since I take 10% less damage before the shields. With that said, Fel Armor isn't the OP one - so it's dumb they are changing it.
    Sacrificial Pact is only good when there's huge burst damage and you're not amazingly geared, in almost every other case soul link is the better talent. Now I'm not sure how well your warlock is geared, but once you're geared and pull 200k+ dps on bosses, you'll find out that you don't need anything else but Soul Leech because it stacks up so quickly.

  2. #62
    You and just about the rest of us PvE'ers. But it's been happening almost since launch, I doubt it'll ever change. They'd have to (gasp!) make separate abilities for PvE and PvP, or at least make them function differently in each environment - but then that would also cause issues for world PvP I guess. I believe PvP should be COMPLETELY separate, as in you have to roll a character ONLY for PvE, or ONLY for PvP, and there is absolutely zero, zilch, nadda way for them to ever cross. Different servers if they have to. That's the only way they'd be able to break the abilities into two separate groups without them interfering with the other half.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Deep Freeze change was a pve change... so what are you even complaining about? It could never deal damage to players, ever. It only did damage if the target was permanently immune. Incanter's Ward was nerfed because it might as well have been Avenging Wrath, combined with auto-critting a stunned target. Pretty dumb. And the nerf was compensated, lol.
    by addin a +10 second duration to IW? no that does NOT compensate for the 50% damage burst reduction..No one cares for IW now.. most people are stuck with invocation and RoP now(for certain situations).. And please, deep freeze was changed because of those petty paladins who were almost one shotted while bubbled..This along with other classes who rarely, yes but suffered from the DF burst when using their survival cooldowns and trinkets..
    THATS THE WHOLE DAMN IRONIC POINT! "quite dumb" : deep freeze was very rarely able to deal damage to players yet still the players complained about getting pwned once in a while which led to the ultimate nerf of DF..
    Not that anyone really uses it, but flameglow was ALSO nerfed by 50% since rogues complained about not being able to do much damage to mages, as rogues primarily generate small numbers, at a higher rate..

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Xecks View Post
    anyone with me? i am sooooo tired of it . hunters are getting boned cause of it and so are locks.
    In PvE it really doesn't matter how much damage you can do. There is no competition in PvE, you are fighting a NPC scripted boss event. If you don't manage to kill it, you are probably just doing something wrong.

    So you are upset that your damage might be a little lower in 5.4?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Wrong.

    Hunters have gotten buffs to compensate.

    So have locks.

    Locks will continue be exceptional in PvE. They will continue to have 3 rank 1 viable specs.

    Hunters will be for the most part more competitive in PvE (except SV aoe which wasn't a PvP nerf) while having MM ALSO be PvP viable now.

    Ergo you're wrong on all accounts OP.
    The Hunter "buffs" to compensate haven't really compensated. It's still a net loss. Not only to damage output but to the skill cap of the class.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 08:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    In PvE it really doesn't matter how much damage you can do. There is no competition in PvE, you are fighting a NPC scripted boss event. If you don't manage to kill it, you are probably just doing something wrong.

    So you are upset that your damage might be a little lower in 5.4?
    You're retarded if you think there's no competition in PvE. Classes get benched all the time for subpar damage due to class balance issues. Why the hell do you think class stacking has existed since forever?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I hate that resil even has to exist in the first place because PVE players need LARGER NUMBERS ON THEIR SCREEN WHEN KILLING A BOSS, even though the time it takes to kill the boss is exactly the same.
    That has absolutely nothing to do with why resilience exists... What?
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  7. #67
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    yea thats y blizz need to completely separate them

  8. #68
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xecks View Post
    anyone with me? i am sooooo tired of it . hunters are getting boned cause of it and so are locks.
    Me too but I'm more sick of PvP being the sideshow and never of any serious priority during the 8,5 years I've played this game in both PvE & PvP.

  9. #69
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huuga View Post
    by addin a +10 second duration to IW? no that does NOT compensate for the 50% damage burst reduction..No one cares for IW now.. most people are stuck with invocation and RoP now(for certain situations).. And please, deep freeze was changed because of those petty paladins who were almost one shotted while bubbled..This along with other classes who rarely, yes but suffered from the DF burst when using their survival cooldowns and trinkets..
    THATS THE WHOLE DAMN IRONIC POINT! "quite dumb" : deep freeze was very rarely able to deal damage to players yet still the players complained about getting pwned once in a while which led to the ultimate nerf of DF..
    Not that anyone really uses it, but flameglow was ALSO nerfed by 50% since rogues complained about not being able to do much damage to mages, as rogues primarily generate small numbers, at a higher rate..
    You have no clue. Deep freeze has never at any point done damage to players; its presence allows other abilities to hit harder. Deep freeze did high damage to permanently stun-immune targets (i.e. bosses) in Cataclysm to compensate for the damage they'd have lost from that offensive cooldown never having an opportunity to work. It was just a quick fix to make a traditionally low-throughput pvp control spec competitive in pve without a complete redesign.

    And oneshotting bubbled paladins? Seriously? I have a gut feeling that you're not trolling but I still want to believe that you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    You're retarded if you think there's no competition in PvE. Classes get benched all the time for subpar damage due to class balance issues. Why the hell do you think class stacking has existed since forever?
    If you're playing in a guild that expects you to always play a competitive class, then pick up another class. Hunters are already suffering from scaling issues at top gear levels, so shouldn't you have been preparing for this before this extremely minor nerf surfaced? Or were you just expecting you'd probably get buffed before next tier?

    The bottom line is you're voluntarily raiding in a tryhard guild but aren't interested in the effort that's always been necessary to compete at that level. Just because an option is there, doesn't mean you have to take it. You could always play in a slightly less serious guild and still clear the same content, just a couple weeks later. In pvp, the entire experience is made less enjoyable by god classes like current bm hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Applenazi View Post
    That has absolutely nothing to do with why resilience exists... What?
    It has everything to do with that. Resilience only exists because players do too much damage relative to player health pools. Blizzard has come right out and said they could do global number adjustments, but they're worried that players would be put off by suddenly doing less damage than they had previously (this was regarding ilvl squish, but the principle applies). There is no mechanical reason Blizzard couldn't nerf all player damage and monster health by 65% and remove resilience. The game would play exactly as it does now.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    You're retarded if you think there's no competition in PvE. Classes get benched all the time for subpar damage due to class balance issues. Why the hell do you think class stacking has existed since forever?
    Your guild will not suddenly fail at killing a certain scripted NPC boss because your class does 5% less damage than before a patch. Chances are that another class got buffed and that the total raid damage is equal or even higher than before.

  11. #71
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    In PvE it really doesn't matter how much damage you can do. There is no competition in PvE, you are fighting a NPC scripted boss event. If you don't manage to kill it, you are probably just doing something wrong.

    So you are upset that your damage might be a little lower in 5.4?
    There is no competition in PvE? rofl what? Yes, there is. You've clearly never raided at a high level.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 03:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    Your guild will not suddenly fail at killing a certain scripted NPC boss because your class does 5% less damage than before a patch. Chances are that another class got buffed and that the total raid damage is equal or even higher than before.
    Again.. clearly not raided at a high level.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post

    Yeah, 2 words: Soul Leech.
    Our self healing ain't OP in PvE, Fel Armor ain't OP in PvE, actually none of our defensive abilities are OP in PvE except Soul Leech, which is getting nerfed to the ground and as I said above, no one takes it for PvP. A 10% passive damage reduction is not going to make much of a difference when you have a 600k+ shield built up.
    locks was mainly an example here, but those were pve nerfs that affected pvp in a bad way, just to let people know that one :P, its the pvpers that have a right to complain here at you PVErs, but this is shared with boomkins and SPriests as well, they cannot not deny those self defenses were OP in PVE, but personally im fine if blizz wants people to be more active at looking after themselves, nothing wrong in having to use resources for going defensive to take a hit on dps, seems like blizz might be going this path

  13. #73
    And here I thought this would be about how PvPers want flying mounts removed from the entire game because of PvP, when it doesn't matter at all on PvE servers. That's the ultimate form of them wanting to inflict their will on other players.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    There is no competition in PvE? rofl what? Yes, there is. You've clearly never raided at a high level.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 03:41 PM ----------



    Again.. clearly not raided at a high level.
    the competition is set by those who think there is a competition, blizz has no official competition for pve, your argument only exists with other players that want competition which is a minority, so good luck with that, if its the people done at high level of raiding, then fine, it only matters to them, if people dont need to care, well why should they care?

    competition to me is only official if theres anything actually official about it and first party rankings, by that, i mean from blizzard themselves.

  15. #75
    dont be all getting crazy on each other.

    but for the person who says arcane shot was buffed , it also had its focus cost increase. it is a filler shot and more focus = less filler which = less dps. unless the buff is so great it outweighs it. someone will have to run the numbers to see if it is indeed a buff to dps. and even then does it outweigh the loss of stampede and other stuff?
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  16. #76
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorianrage View Post
    the competition is set by those who think there is a competition, blizz has no official competition for pve, your argument only exists with other players that want competition which is a minority, so good luck with that, if its the people done at high level of raiding, then fine, it only matters to them, if people dont need to care, well why should they care?

    competition to me is only official if theres anything actually official about it and first party rankings, by that, i mean from blizzard themselves.
    That is how most competition is set. Do you think developers of games are heavily involved in lans etc? Valve had nothing to do with Counter Strike tournaments and yet that is deemed one of the most competitive games of all time. Just because Blizzard doesn't have an official ranking for PvE doesn't mean it isn't competitive, there are many things on the line including sponsorship for the top guilds.

    For me, I was talking about being top on your realm and competing with another guilds, but also competing for rank 1 parses on every fight and trying your best to get that.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Slonah View Post
    I hate players in PvE gear being viable in PvP while players in PvP gear are not viable for PvE
    I'll take it one step further... I hate PvP and wish Blizzard would provide more separation between Pve and Pvp. Make Pvp viable in its own with Pvp pieces being viable in Pve and have Pve items worthless in Pvp so the two are seperate.

    And one more thing.
    Don't make me PvP for a Pve legendary. Don't force content where it is not wanted,
    Last edited by Vaalyn; 2013-06-27 at 03:39 PM. Reason: clarification

  18. #78
    which pretty much goes with, its only set by those who care, that isnt an actual competition, its just in the mind set to those who think it does exist, such as your self and those who wish to which is fine, otherwise there is no competition, lans are made by people who actually bother with it and believe it exists, an actual competition only exists if its set by official standards, and there isnt any, only set by player by player basis so heavily skewed

  19. #79
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applenazi View Post
    That has absolutely nothing to do with why resilience exists... What?
    It has everything to do with it. If players did 1/3 of the damage we do now, the 65% passive resil would be outright removed, as it serves 0 purpose except to fix the problem of player damage being 3x as high as it should be, which it is because of PVE'rs needing to see BIG NUMBERs to feel competent.
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  20. #80
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xecks View Post
    but for the person who says arcane shot was buffed , it also had its focus cost increase. it is a filler shot and more focus = less filler which = less dps. unless the buff is so great it outweighs it. someone will have to run the numbers to see if it is indeed a buff to dps. and even then does it outweigh the loss of stampede and other stuff?
    The damage buff and cost are proportional to each other, so damage per focus will remain the same. What is changing is the 50% increase on damage per execution time, which is a buff. You don't have empty gcds as a hunter; this means you get to devote more time to your focus generation shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaalyn View Post
    I'll take it one step further... I hate PvP and wish Blizzard would provide more separation between Pve and Pvp. Make Pvp viable in its own with Pvp pieces being viable in Pve and have Pve items worthless in Pvp so the two are seperate.

    And one more thing.
    Don't make me PvP for a Pve legendary. Don't force content where it is not wanted,
    There's no reason to intentionally implement barriers between these areas of gameplay. While it seems like a majority of this game's playerbase is foolishly hostile towards the other camp, I'm hopeful that these people haven't given any thought to the topic and are argumentative simply for the sake of argument.

    Pve gear should be usable in pvp and vice versa. Somebody that's worked to improve their character should be able to experience the other area of the game without any severe restrictions. To me, logic dictates that the only conditional is equality. I'd be happy for pve players' gear to be viable in pvp should they be interested in pursuing it, so long as their gear's viability is no better than pvpers' gear. It doesn't harm pvp in any way for pve gear or players to be competitive; the harm enters at the point where some of that gear is actually stronger than a comparable pvp piece. I can't imagine why these statements should work any differently when flipped.

    As for the battlegrounds for your legendary, I see it as a fairly small-scale injustice. I think Blizzard is just trying to push players to have a taste of the other content area, even if it is mostly opposed. The same thing is happening in pvp right now, with most classes feeling the need to run raid finder for a powerful trinket. I don't like it, but it's really not very demanding compared to the historical heroic raid gear in pvp or arena weapons in pve progression.

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