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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Who cares, it's PvE, if the boss dies it dies.

    PvP competition is much more reliant on individual balance

    And resilience only exists because PvE'ers (including me) want to see big numbers, which make zero difference at all, because it's relative anyway
    PVP balance is a myth that PVP'r's constantly strive for, you can only get it in an FPS where skill is the only factor deciding a win (plus maybe a bit of luck).

    The simple fact that players are using different classes and abilities has caused blizzard to strive to homogenise classes and make them less fun to play in PVE.

    DK's are a prime example of this as upon launch they were highly survivable and a lot of fun to PVE but were completely OP in the hands of a medium skilled player in PVP hence they got nerfed to oblivion.

    To my mind Blizzard should be spending more time adapting what the abilities of certain classes do to other players and getting the ratio of player health vs boss health back to original design levels, then the big numbers won't become such an issue.


  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Wrong, its exactly how it works. There is 0 reason functionally why Blizzard could not reduce player damage by 65%, reduce NPC health by 65%, then remove resilience. The only reason to keep damage so dramatically high compared to player health, is PVE EPEEN. BIG NUMBERS RAWR! That's it.

    PvP has been getting fucked over by the PVE EPEEN Inflating damage system since Wrath. Resilience shouldnt exist in its current form. It serves no purpose that could not be achieved by the Devs setting player DPS around player health, instead of setting player dps around PVE'r EPEEN.
    This is just blatantly stupid. Seriously, I would use less offensive word, but there is no equivalent. You haven't put a single thought in this post, have you?

    I am yet to see a single post that goes along the lines "Dear Blizz, I'm a PvE player and I don't feel powerful enough, so please keep on inflating the numbers which are totally insignificant as long as they are proportional to boss' health, moreover I can't even distinguish them during the fight but I want more digits because half-screen-long numbers are essential to the PvE gameplay experience.". Let alone such an overwhelming feedback that would be needed to justify your thought process...

    Inflation - are you familiar with this word? I see that you are so...
    The stat inflation is a result of solely Blizzards' decisions. Introducing gear upgrades and Thunderforged/Bloodsoaked(?) gear instead of timed nerfs to the current content only accelerates it. And if you had done just a tiny bit of research you would find out that the numbers inflate at an exponential pace. So the longer Blizzard avoids ilvl squish the more noticealbe differences in "power" during an expansion will be and the more radical measures will be required to control it.

    The gear ilvl progress in PvP is more stable because... Well, Blizzard decided to pick such a model of gear progression! And I don't think they consider that to be their best idea with all the means they have to undertake in order to balance the gameplay.

    You might bring up the ilvl squish and try to convince me it didn't happen because of negative feedback from the PvE community. Show me the proof. There was negative and possitive feedback and I bet both were coming from each sides - PvP and PvE. Either way Blizz didn't introduce it because they eventually said they weren't ready for such an overhaul.

    TL;DR: Use your brain before you publish conclusions made uniquely on your opinion.
    Last edited by Hawtdawg; 2013-06-30 at 10:30 AM.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Do you even read? They/he never said that arena was the mistakes, they bitched how much they have to work to please all of the playerbases. The only one that said arenas were a mistake was the article writer who lacks comprehension skills.

    he even said in the full interview



    and



    Doesn't sound like someone that would scrap of arenas. He isn't even sure about everything.
    That they would have to redo the entire game or not implement the idea of arenas 2 years after the release? No, I got that point. But anecdotal evidence points to nixing it since it was 2 years after the fact.

    Edit: Redoing an entire game that had been delayed to that point for years, probably wouldn't have gone over well. vs Not implementing it?
    Last edited by Todgruppe; 2013-06-30 at 10:33 AM.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    I still wonder.... is it NOT possible for Blizz to make separate spells for PvP/PvE?

    Other games have done this, why can't Blizz do it?
    Because they enjoy making excuses and making up reason's for their poor attempt to balance the two around one another instead of just being smart about it.
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    Have you seen my posts over the past few days? You should be asking yourself why I'm alive, not why I don't have friends.
    I speak my mind, I don't sugar coat it and I don't read replies because most of the time it's someone who apparently "got their feelings hurt".

  5. #145
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawtdawg View Post
    This is just blatantly stupid. Seriously, I would use less offensive word, but there is no equivalent. You haven't put a single thought in this post, have you?

    I am yet to see a single post that goes along the lines "Dear Blizz, I'm a PvE player and I don't feel powerful enough, so please keep on inflating the numbers which are totally insignificant as long as they are proportional to boss' health, moreover I can't even distinguish them during the fight but I want more digits because half-screen-long numbers are essential to the PvE gameplay experience.". Let alone such an overwhelming feedback that would be needed to justify your thought process...

    Inflation - are you familiar with this word? I see that you are so...
    The stat inflation is a result of solely Blizzards' decisions. Introducing gear upgrades and Thunderforged/Bloodsoaked(?) gear instead of timed nerfs to the current content only accelerates it. And if you had done just a tiny bit of research you would find out that the numbers inflate at an exponential pace. So the longer Blizzard avoids ilvl squish the more noticealbe differences in "power" during an expansion will be and the more radical measures will be required to control it.

    The gear ilvl progress in PvP is more stable because... Well, Blizzard decided to pick such a model of gear progression! And I don't think they consider that to be their best idea with all the means they have to undertake in order to balance the gameplay.

    You might bring up the ilvl squish and try to convince me it didn't happen because of negative feedback from the PvE community. Show me the proof. There was negative and possitive feedback and I bet both were coming from each sides - PvP and PvE. Either way Blizz didn't introduce it because they eventually said they weren't ready for such an overhaul.

    TL;DR: Use your brain before you publish conclusions made uniquely on your opinion.
    Trying to argue its all because of inflation. WRONG. It started off broken. Inflation doesnt account for anything, it was broken Day 1 of MoP. Damage output was way too high before they added in gear upgrades and thunderforged. It didnt suddenly become an issue because of a patch. Which is fucking obvious.

    And yes the ilvl squish didnt happen because of pve player feedback. DPS is only so high because PVE players needed to feel like they had progressed from the leveling and have to SEE THOSE MASSIVE NUMBERS POPPING UP!

    Why did Blizzard when they decided the amount of health a player should have at 90, and the amount of DPS a player needs to do in a raid, design a system where they would have to put in 65% passive damage reduction to make pvp work at all?

    Because PVE players needed to feel like they were doing massive dps, and they way they accomplish that is by scaling up the amount of damage they were doing from Cata while also comparing it to player health. All of it just so pve players can go "WOAH IM DOING 200K THATS LIKE KILLING SOMEONE IN 2.5s! WHOOOOPDY DO IM GREATTT!"
    Last edited by Korgoth; 2013-06-30 at 07:13 PM.
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Dammagia View Post
    The simple fact that players are using different classes and abilities has caused blizzard to strive to homogenise classes and make them less fun to play in PVE.
    I think you never played Starcraft or Warcraft or Dota etc. if you believe that no Balance can be achieved just because of different Abilities and Classes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dammagia View Post
    DK's are a prime example of this as upon launch they were highly survivable and a lot of fun to PVE but were completely OP in the hands of a medium skilled player in PVP hence they got nerfed to oblivion.
    No they did not: I saw Teams with Death Knights on Top Tournament Streams like Blizzcon from 2009 to 2012 which is as far as I remember.

  7. #147
    Mathematics makes this an easy fix.

  8. #148
    The flipside is that PVE often invades PvP and ruins it for the pvp players. It's just something you gotta roll with. Hunters were and still are OP in PVP.

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