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  1. #1

    Protection Warrior Vs. Protection Paladin

    With the PTR now available, I was wondering if there is any feedback regarding next tiers tanking situation.

    My guild are currently rolling Prot Warr + Brewmaster but we're considering going Prot Pala next tier/rest of this tier.

    Is the difference really that great?

    Any and all feedback in greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    What is the rest of your setup?
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  3. #3
    its too early to know how big of a impact the warrior buffs will have. I still have Prot paly>brew>warrior as my opinion of the tanks. But if anything I think warriors will become dps whores and replace brewmasters for DPS output while bringing more raid utility than a brew has so most guilds will go back to Prot paly/prot warrior if anything But honestly thats just me over thinking things and most people will still conclude Prot paly/brew is best 1/2 tanking combo. I know thats our comp for next tier .
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  4. #4
    is u think riposte is good... u are wrong my friend.. its just a band-aid fix.. shitty one at that

  5. #5
    Excluding a cheesable mechanic that would imply a prot warrior, the only reason you should really want your prot warrior over your paladin is wanting this precious extra raid cooldown, in which case you can just log your prot warrior alt in that particular encounter. And even then it's debatable in a magic damage scenario.
    otherwise just roll with your prot pal, they have a better TDR, are more stable, and have better DPS.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    its too early to know how big of a impact the warrior buffs will have. I still have Prot paly>brew>warrior as my opinion of the tanks. But if anything I think warriors will become dps whores and replace brewmasters for DPS output while bringing more raid utility than a brew has so most guilds will go back to Prot paly/prot warrior if anything But honestly thats just me over thinking things and most people will still conclude Prot paly/brew is best 1/2 tanking combo. I know thats our comp for next tier .
    Riposte in its current form means we'll be ~30%/20% behind monks/paladins dps wise.(Instead of 50%...)
    This is assuming neither monks/palas get further buffs.

    its a horrible shitty bandaid fix neither warriors or dk's are happy about...
    Yeh sure, lets bring the prot warrior for rallyin/demo instead of 60k raid healing...mm..makes total sense.
    Specially seeing as a fury would bring the exact same utility without gimping your tanking setup.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Specially seeing as a fury would bring the exact same utility without gimping your tanking setup.
    exactly.

    In terms of damage taken and utility it doenst really matter. DPS wise even with riposte and the dmg nerf on palaglyph pala druid and monks still will be doing more dmg than DKs and warriors.

    riposte is not that bad for warriors but for DKs a haste proc would be better I quess. warrior hast been changed to gain a bit more from crit now. But looking at what the other tanks gain next tier just from gear is insane.

    Palas incredible amount of SotR uptime(faster SS procs if they dont nerf it)
    monks beeing able to get the crit soft cap for EB.
    Druids crit soft cap more haste for T&C and armor cap.

    Other tanks get stuff to but not from offensiv stats. And the small buff to warriors crit scaling and riposte will not give them a 20-30% dmg increase.

    Assuming all stays as the current PTR build.

    But still remember you dont need to change the tanks to raid heroic, top50 guilds raided with DK warrior or double warrior so you dont need to change the tanks.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    the dmg nerf on palaglyph.
    Damage nerf on a glyph that is not even that good. I often do not even use it on fights since there are often multiple better damage glyphs.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #9
    It's far to early to tell as we haven't had much in the way of a dmg tuning pass yet.
    One thing to remember for pally dps tho, we'll not be scaling nearly as well with gear next tier as SoO normal gear will allow most of us to hit the 50% haste soft cap.
    "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Saishan View Post
    It's far to early to tell as we haven't had much in the way of a dmg tuning pass yet.
    One thing to remember for pally dps tho, we'll not be scaling nearly as well with gear next tier as SoO normal gear will allow most of us to hit the 50% haste soft cap.
    Of course we will scale well as it allows us to pick up more crit. We maybe wont scale as well but we will still scale well, and getting 50% haste is still a bit way to go from ToT gear.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Xenlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    its too early to know how big of a impact the warrior buffs will have. I still have Prot paly>brew>warrior as my opinion of the tanks. But if anything I think warriors will become dps whores and replace brewmasters for DPS output while bringing more raid utility than a brew has so most guilds will go back to Prot paly/prot warrior if anything But honestly thats just me over thinking things and most people will still conclude Prot paly/brew is best 1/2 tanking combo. I know thats our comp for next tier .
    Some will try to become DPS whores, but the changes are no where near enough to compete with BMs/Paladins still. Those two are broken in their current states. It's pretty sad.

  12. #12
    Let's look at the facts, shall we?

    all tanks are equally good at surviving damage. they have about equal direct damage intake, each have a big and small CD and a DPS CD.

    for mobility, it is monk>warrior>paladin>druid>DK. Monks are the best, since they don't need a target for roll AND have a sprint. Warriors have charge, intervene and heroic leap. paladins have a sprint and blessing of freedom. druids just have their T1 talent. DKs just have death's advance sprint.

    for DPS, it's Paladin>monk> druid > DK = warrior.

    currently, the only reason to use a druid is as a dedicated offtank who needs to soak something. the only reason to use a DK is if you got magic damage every 45-60 seconds. the only reason to use a warrior is if you need a stun every 12 seconds.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    currently, the only reason to use a druid is as a dedicated offtank who needs to soak something. the only reason to use a DK is if you got magic damage every 45-60 seconds. the only reason to use a warrior is if you need a stun every 12 seconds.
    Druids have the best dps off-spec of all tanks, so for those 1 tank fights you have a better off spec dps. If you are like my raid group that like to one tank as much as possible, that is very very important.

    Warriors however has a good utility off-spec with their ability to take the boss for a few seconds with their 100% parry to let the main tank reset the stacks if needed.

    Warriors and Druids are also extremely great supporting tanks since they have tooth&claw and safe guard which are completely OP for the main tank. Having a warrior with safe guard allowed me to do things I could no possibly do otherwise on my paladin to substantially increase dps. As a paladin I would like my off-tank to be druid(if nobody else needs leather int gear)>warrior>monk>paladin.

    People keep looking at tanks seperately. Look at their synergy instead.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #14
    It really depends on how the encounters in the next tier play out. Right now there's at least one that lets you single tank it if you have a paladin in the raid, unless they fix BoP/bubble resetting stacks. If you can single tank something with a paladin, you get amazing vengeance, amazing healing and amazing dps, plus you can bring another dps or healer and make the encounter quicker or safer.

    If they nerf the paladin ability to easily single tank encounters by designing the encounters properly, then the decision is less clear cut.

    But they're not done with buffs and nerfs yet, and pvp will screw all our class abilities up in the end anyhow.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninotchka View Post
    It really depends on how the encounters in the next tier play out. Right now there's at least one that lets you single tank it if you have a paladin in the raid, unless they fix BoP/bubble resetting stacks. If you can single tank something with a paladin, you get amazing vengeance, amazing healing and amazing dps, plus you can bring another dps or healer and make the encounter quicker or safer.

    If they nerf the paladin ability to easily single tank encounters by designing the encounters properly, then the decision is less clear cut.

    But they're not done with buffs and nerfs yet, and pvp will screw all our class abilities up in the end anyhow.
    Each tier they say "Oh there is only 1-2 bosses you can solo tank". We usually end up solo tanking over half the tier on the first kills.

    I will wait until we see all the fights on PTR to say more, but I have a feeling there will be a lot of solo tanking going on next tier, just as T14 and T15.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #16
    druids just have their T1 talent.
    Dash and Aoe speed buff both of them also clear slow from you so alot better mobility than a pala for example.

    currently, the only reason to use a druid is as a dedicated offtank who needs to soak something. the only reason to use a DK is if you got magic damage every 45-60 seconds. the only reason to use a warrior is if you need a stun every 12 seconds.
    That like the dumbest way to put it and not even true. To soak melee dmg as an Offtank a DK is by far the best, with their Shield stacking up to 100% of their hp basicly doubles the EH. All tanks have stuns, not even to mention that druid has the best single target stun ingame. And monks have much better magic reduciton than a DK.

    The main problem is that all Tanks are equal in terms of dmg taken. But druids/monk/palas use haste/crit to gain mitigation, and gain alot of dps aswell from those stats. You could argue about haste dks but it is not an increase of mitigation over mastery.
    Doing dps as a tank is nice but as a Tank its your main job to take as less dmg as possible so mitigation before dps. And both warriors and dks dont gain as much as the other tanks.

    Damage nerf on a glyph that is not even that good. I often do not even use it on fights since there are often multiple better damage glyphs.
    Its still a nerf to it but that is more about the fact that they are thinking about nerfing the tanks. Cause right now even with riposte, in terms of dps and ovrall stat increase. Monk druid and pala will be alot better even more than now.

    Guardian will have no problem reaching armor cap and not even have to gem for mastery, and getting the authit crit breakpoint. Plus the extra haste for T&C proccs.
    Monks also gaining crit where the uptime on EB will be near 90%.
    Pala will go for the haste breakpoint and maybe even go into mastery (crit will only raise dmg so not very desireable) adding alot of mitigation with a very high uptime on SotR. And SS proccing more often with higher haste.

    To gain the same mitigation DKs and Warriors still go for mastery next tier and fall alot behind in terms of dps compared to the others. And I think they will change more than just riposte. Cause the only thing riposte would do is helping the gap not to widen between both groups.

    Not saying you cant kill heroic boses next tier without them but atleast having one of them may help alot.

  17. #17
    We must have a bad prot paladin and a really good alt spec prot warrior. When he needed to sub because our paladin was out, the damage in take felt smoother and his damage was competitive. Too bad they don't want to swap roles.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    We must have a bad prot paladin and a really good alt spec prot warrior. When he needed to sub because our paladin was out, the damage in take felt smoother and his damage was competitive. Too bad they don't want to swap roles.
    Nothing wrong with warriors damage in-take, it is great. His damage output should however not be competetive with your paladins.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Go prot pally monk, it's the best tanking set up you can get.
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  20. #20
    all tanks are equally good at surviving damage. they have about equal direct damage intake, each have a big and small CD and a DPS CD.
    This is a huge misconception, just saying. TDR is also completely out of whack between tanks, it's just not measurable as easily as DPS is (and even a tool like raidbots wouldn't be accurate assuming it existed, since a tank being able to withstand more damage will tend to try to tank more mobs/cheese more mechanics etc.)
    And when it comes to surviving spikes, SBar/Stagger/SoTR are on a totally different power tier compared to SD/Death Strike, lol.
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2013-06-27 at 06:37 PM.

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