Prot Pala winning Healing meters on Tortos HC by huge amount, ye I think its getting out of control
I don't think Vengeance is really necessary. It's easier than ever to hold threat now so it's not like that mage or rogue or hunter is going to pull your mobs off at max level very much anymore.
Seems to me it was meant to help people level in Defensive stance instead of just turning it on when they get into dungeons without really knowing what they're doing. Now they can stay in it all the time really get a good grip on how to tank.
So many clueless dps posting here.
Vengeance is fun for us tanks.
It has a purpose.
It doesn't work in pvp.
You are not competing with tanks on dps.
Very few % of tanks actually do stupid /sit and stand in the fire stuff. It will get fixed in 5.4 anyway.
Why do you still complain?
Solo-tanking is fine and fun just because I am skilled enough to do it. Staying in the shit and /sitting to get crit is just wrong. That's not how you play tank.
Edit: and the thing is, my playstyle won't change in 5.4 at all. The ones who abused the mechanics will have to adapt.
Just look at which tanks do the ridiculous amounts of damage and then look at how some of the 2ndary stats weigh for them. Specially haste.
With more haste ...
- Brewmasters are able to use more abilities, generate more chi and thus do more damage and have higher uptime on shuffle and other defensive abilities.
- Paladins lower their GCD which makes it possible to cram in more ShotR and WoG between regular attacks and simply improves HP gain.
- Druids get more Rage and thus can increase their survivability (slightly) and get more TaC procs which increases their dmg (haste weighs significantly lower for druids however than for palas and BMs)
- DKs get increased rune regeneration, which can slightly improve survivability due to more bloodshield and slightly improve overall DPs (again no Blood DKs really do or should aim for haste)
- Warriors get faster melee swings, which provide no rage generation or anything else that is beneficial.
Now combine the benefits of lets say the Brewmaster which I would consider to be the best Tank currently in my own opinion, to the Warrior tank which could be arguably the worst at the moment.
I do believe that an Agi based class which naturally already has a high amount of crit paired with an energy bar benefiting from haste, a lot of semi-passive avoidance (shuffle and elusive brew) and it's abilities greatly benefiting from AP (all dmg abilities ofc, chi wave, guard),
compared to a str class and thus gets a bit of parry who has no real possibility to increase his damage other than with crit (which gives no defensive benefit), really has much better cards in becoming extremly powerful with vengeance.
In conclusion let me ask you this.
Name 1 reason to bring a bear druid over a brewmaster at the moment and i can possibly stop arguing about the imbalance in tank classes atm.
Oh and Vengeance is out of control for that exact reason, classes that increase their dmg in order to increase their survivability as well, will go berserk with more AP.
If your MT outdps you in fights where it is normally the dps'ers pulling the higher numbers either your tank is cheesing the fight or your are slacking(playing a subpar spec counts toward that as well)
However, if your MT is forced to reroll or get benched to being a OT or going fully OS due to another tank class outdpsing him/her under the same condition by a huge margin, then that is a design issue staring at you right in the eye.
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If you have a fight with very high damage on the tank, he will do very high dps. That is why you see quite ridiculous levels of tank dps on Ra-Den. On other fights, you really don't see this.
It also interests me how just about everyone on these forums who quits has also been someone who played since WoW release, or even earlier with the beta as in your case. Curious.
Last edited by FpicEail; 2013-07-03 at 01:55 AM.
Vengeance seems like it was added because tanks had trouble keeping aggro when other players felt the need to burst the moment the pull started.
When LFG was added, you started to get cocky ninja pullers and bursters who ignored CC (back when CC was needed, remember those days?) This caused content to become hard for LFGers, because they weren't playing properly. Like running into a room with guns blazing then realizing your enemy is a super ultra invisible techno ninja army. With knifes made out of pure fire.
This, and many players didn't want to role tank due to the stress of being a tank around this time (queuing as tank, only to have a Shadow/Ret/Feral/Enhancement Healer and 3 happygolucky huntards, *shudder*)
So what was Blizzards response? Remove the need for CC. Give tanks a damage increase to make them look nicer to players and help them keep threat. Cus you know... tanking wasn't easy enough with taunts on 8 second cooldowns, AoE taunts (whatever happened to those?) and naturally high threat generation.
Vengeance is a problem, and it should just be flat out removed. I've seen most tanks be around 5th on the DPS meters in 25 mans. Why is a tank doing that much damage, why does he NEED to do that much damage?
Competitive DPS is one thing, but I saw a tank pull the AoE pack before Iron Qon the other day and they did 1.1m DPS...
It's getting a little out of hand.
Neither opinion is valid. Vengeance is fine, and keeps tanks from falling asleep and/or feeling like they could be replaced by a brick wall and nobody would notice.
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If a Tank is doing more DPS than you when you are playing a DPS class.
It isn't Vengeance that is broken or bad.
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