Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
... LastLast
  1. #241
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    24,250
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosWolf View Post
    This. The only people complaining about tank DPS are folks who have crappy DPS to begin with and get all aggravated the guy with the shield is hurting the boss more than them, and PVPers who get rumpbothered about tank specs actually being a threat to their health bars for the first time since the game began.

    Neither opinion is valid. Vengeance is fine, and keeps tanks from falling asleep and/or feeling like they could be replaced by a brick wall and nobody would notice.
    I thought that's what the mechanics of your class was for and or the raid itself not looking at the meters and thinking "FUCK YEAH I'M DOING TWO ROLES AT ONCE!!!"


    Sorry, I don't buy that.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  2. #242
    If a Tank is doing more DPS than you when you are playing a DPS class.

    It isn't Vengeance that is broken or bad.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    It isn't Vengeance that is broken or bad.
    you should try some heroic modes sometime

  4. #244
    I've never been out damaged 2-1 by a tank in leveling dungeons: aoe they beat me, single target i beat them. Even on aoe, however, they're maybe 20% higher than i am, even without 'looms.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by alduron View Post
    leveling dungeons
    leveling dungeons are not a good measure of anything

  6. #246
    Doing 1/3 to 1/2 the damage of a dps class feels pretty shitty, why does it bother anyone if a tank can do comparable dps? Without actually tanking and thus getting vengeance our damage is low, so its not like you can get 8 tanks and 2 healers and succeed.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by -ex- View Post
    Doing 1/3 to 1/2 the damage of a dps class feels pretty shitty, why does it bother anyone if a tank can do comparable dps? Without actually tanking and thus getting vengeance our damage is low, so its not like you can get 8 tanks and 2 healers and succeed.
    "B-but, why bring DPS? Bring more tanks because they can do more DPS anyway." - 90% of the people crying about vengeance.

    While the grand majority of the heroic raiders are happy that their tank is able to pump out big damage and big healing if they know how to. People see tanks do retarded damage in heroic fights in Method or Blood Legions video's and get all cranky.

    And they forget that almost no fight, even while one-tanking, gives you insane amounts of vengeance. Except for what I noted in my first comment in this thread Zerg strat Dark Animus or Ra-den.

    I tanked hc Durumu solo on my alt Paladin. Since I am still busy with making the playstyle muscle-memory like I do on my DK I didn't cheese vengeance. And I never in the fight hit the 200k vengeance mark. Which makes the cap on Vengeance useless if you're doing a fight as it should be done without cheesing.

    And ofcourse, good luck with DPS trying to "punish" tanks by taking their damage away; get ready for 1h+ dungeon queues again if that actually happens, since a lot of !especially casual tanks will stop tanking. (Not taking away that cheesing should be stopped, that shit is just plain dumb and inverse to the whole tanking philosophy ./sit and voidzones giving Vengeance is too much)

  8. #248
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickwickman View Post
    While the grand majority of the heroic raiders are happy that their tank is able to pump out big damage and big healing if they know how to.
    Obviously in a vacuum, given two players who are otherwise equal you would take the player who does more damage. This is the same by the way, of all roles.

    Doesn't mean that it's good from game balance POV.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Obviously in a vacuum, given two players who are otherwise equal you would take the player who does more damage. This is the same by the way, of all roles.

    Doesn't mean that it's good from game balance POV.
    Why not ? Because it actually puts responsibilities on tanks besides taunting every 30/60/90 sec and popping CD's every 2 min ?

  10. #250
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    London, ON, Canada
    Posts
    1,353
    The only thing I don't like about tank damage is how easy it is to put out good numbers. It leads to tanks thinking they are god's gift to this game.

  11. #251
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    2,133
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I literally had to rub my eyes and read that again. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume it's not what you meant to say.
    Ye, sounds even more odd when you remove half the sentence :P
    Threat and stayin alive is the fundamentals of tanking but an very little part of it, atleast for a good tank imo.
    If they would pigeonhole tanks into being meat-shields again i think we would see a huge decline in tanks.

    I remember the days of tabbing sunders around and frankly, i would rather reroll a dps then going back there :-/

  12. #252
    I was looking at some prot paladin yesterday progressing on Lei shen 25m hc, he was constantly around 7~ place in dps and 3-4 placed in healing done/hps, at the same time as tanking the boss.

    like doing 3 roles at once.

  13. #253
    Banned Teebone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    "Sunny" Florida
    Posts
    1,165
    What exactly is the point of complaining about this? Tank damage done = more done to the boss. Aren't we all supposed to be on the same team or something?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    What exactly is the point of complaining about this? Tank damage done = more done to the boss. Aren't we all supposed to be on the same team or something?
    Sadly 95% of people in this topic are in "me vs all others" team. Especially if they are not top on dps.

  15. #255
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    What exactly is the point of complaining about this? Tank damage done = more done to the boss. Aren't we all supposed to be on the same team or something?
    Literally 5 posts above yours,

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Obviously in a vacuum, given two players who are otherwise equal you would take the player who does more damage. This is the same by the way, of all roles.

    Doesn't mean that it's good from game balance POV.
    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Why not ? Because it actually puts responsibilities on tanks besides taunting every 30/60/90 sec and popping CD's every 2 min ?
    Let's say the two tanks both did 50% of an average (similar-geared) DPS damage, they would still have to maximize their damage while still actively mitigating incoming damage. I mean, tanks traditionally have had a lot of responsibility even before they did a lot of damage, and before active mitigation was a thing at that. And it's not like tank damage didn't matter prior to Mists either as I claimed earlier.

    There is a big difference between the current situation and the tank being an AFK/auto-attack bot pushing taunt every 30 sec.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-07-04 at 01:55 PM. Reason: not 5-ish, it's actually 5 posts

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Let's say the two tanks both did 50% of an average (similar-geared) DPS damage, they would still have to maximize their damage while still actively mitigating incoming damage. I mean, tanks traditionally have had a lot of responsibility even before they did a lot of damage, and before active mitigation was a thing at that. And it's not like tank damage didn't matter prior to Mists either as I claimed earlier.

    There is a big difference between the current situation and the tank being an AFK/auto-attack bot pushing taunt every 30 sec.
    They might've had more responsibility, but for half of those fights you could've set up timed macro (ohh noez, botting raids) or even cast sequence macro + weights on keyboard and you would've been adequate.

    And I am yet to see a real reason why tanks doing high dmg is bad for game balance. (Go ahead, bring in 25 tanks and tell me how much dmg they do)
    If dps have problem with other classes doing high dps boy oh boy, i'm sure fights like dreamwalker piss em off.
    Plus again, if we do fix "omg, tanks doing > 50% of our dps" we're going going to look at disc / mistweaver and discuss why healers are dpsing.

  17. #257
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,267
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    (Go ahead, bring in 25 tanks and tell me how much dmg they do)
    25 blood DK versus Lei Shen go time?

  18. #258
    The Patient Joakim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    320
    When i play any tank i have, i feel no need to do alot of DPS, not at all. I just want to take minimum damage and keep aggro on everything im supposed to take aggro from.

  19. #259
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,267
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    And I am yet to see a real reason why tanks doing high dmg is bad for game balance.
    Makes balance at both high and low AP a nightmare. Makes people in group simply feel less important. Tank was already important before he was 300% of the rest of the raid's damage, now basically he's superman. It's sort of ironic that Ghostcrawler's own response was "can't underwrite their contributions" in regards to a raid.

    Don't get me wrong most of the times when I tank a random run I have no problem ending up high-top DPS, on a personal level at this point I have nothing against it (I don't DPS raids anymore, a partial reason being that I'm never asked), but well, when the OP class is having fun, usually no one else is.

    Aside: while I stand by my opinion that vengeance contribution needs to be drastically reduced (at least at high ends), overall tank mechanics are way more positive in 5.0 than Cataclysm. In any case all my opinions pretty much are 6.0 on at this point. Hopefully Blizzard has some nice ideas in store for that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Joakim View Post
    When i play any tank i have, i feel no need to do alot of DPS, not at all. I just want to take minimum damage and keep aggro on everything im supposed to take aggro from.
    Then in the current state of things, you're doing it wrong.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-07-04 at 02:19 PM.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    25 blood DK versus Lei Shen go time?
    Doubt they'd be able to push transitions fast enough. And even if they could, not sure how that's a problem when we have a raid with 25 warlocks clearing HoF.

    "OHHAMAGAD A DEEPEES IS TANKING AND HEALING, NURF NAO"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Makes balance at both high and low AP a nightmare. Makes people in group simply feel less important. Tank was already important before he was 300% of the rest of the raid's damage, now basically he's superman. It's sort of ironic that Ghostcrawler's own response was "can't underwrite their contributions" in regards to a raid.

    Don't get me wrong most of the times when I tank a random run I have no problem ending up high-top DPS, on a personal level at this point I have nothing against it (I don't DPS raids anymore, a partial reason being that I'm never asked), but well, when the OP class is having fun, usually no one else is.

    Aside: while I stand by my opinion that vengeance contribution needs to be drastically reduced (at least at high ends), overall tank mechanics are way more positive in 5.0 than Cataclysm. In any case all my opinions pretty much are 6.0 on at this point. Hopefully Blizzard has some nice ideas in store for that.
    /shrug even when i do lfr on my poopy geared rogue i don't go "ohh look, i was #2 on dps behind a tank, i'm a terrible dps, he's op tank, i'm depressed and going to go cry in the corner"
    Instead i just look at the fight, if it's one of the fights where i know a tank "can" (can != will) out dps me, coolbeans, i'm top damage dealer.
    If it's the fight when he can't, ohh noez, i lost to another player.
    Just like (even tho mmo-champ community loves to) i don't throw a giant {shit|rage}storm every time another class out dps me.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •