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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMetatron View Post
    Now you see why we will receive no beneficial changes. I've thrown in the towel on the data I was compiling after being belittled by the talking heads who don't want to do anything because they believe everything is just fine.
    Here's a challenge for you:

    At what point did I ever claim that "everything is just fine" for DKs right now? Show me the quote. A talking head like me must surely say it routinely, so this task should be absolutely trivial.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    Presenting counter-arguments != defending Blizzard.

    Be real. You (should) know that it is impossible to balance every spec in every scenario/fight to do the exact same DPS to a razor's edge, and even more so if you want that razor's edge balance to persist as gear changes. The best they can strive for is a target range, say, +/- 3% around some nominal value. If a spec falls out of that range, they'll nerf or buff it accordingly. We don't know what parameters they base that range on (or even what it is).

    What does this lead to? Someone lucks out and gets the #1 spot. Someone else doesn't luck out and gets the last spot.

    And no, that is not a cop-out cliché answer. The ranking is irrelevant. The only important part here is the significance of the relative difference between the two. If the top spec does 0.05% more damage than the lowest spec, does that matter? If yes, how are you determining that it does, in fact, matter (or similarly if your answer was no)? What about 4%? 10%? At what point does it become realistically significant? Under what fight conditions (any, multi-dotting, high-movement, etc.)?

    If all of the melee are below the ranged (your claim), then that's a systematic problem and doesn't have anything to do with DK scaling. Buffing Frost DKs isn't going to fix it. They need to address what mechanics are favoring ranged classes over melee classes. If that's because melee get less uptime than ranged, then buffing melee isn't the best route here, because what if we consider a scenario when both get full uptime? There's now going to be a glaring disparity.

    On another topic, I'd also point out with respect to 5.4 PTR logs, the effects of each class's T16-2pc and 4pc bonuses should be taken into account. Is the difference (if any) because of the difference in gains from bonuses / other class changes, or is it because of lack of scaling, or even perhaps a mix?
    I AM being real. mages and locks have been NUMBER ONE spot throughout this expac. and yet fire mages received no major nerfs (if u wanan nerf them instead of buffing meele). been mentioned before, our dps shoudlnt be based on stand and fight type fights. Every meel class has agap closer, warriors rogues, ww monks all have it. we lack mobility in raids.. leading to less uptime on bosses. we lack any major raid utility like other classes. We lack any burst dmg cd like other meele. other than some cheese fight with aoe grip.. we bring nothing significant to a raid like locks (HS), boomies (tranq) etc.

    More than that, frost dks have essentially staye dthe same last 2 expacs. nothing new.. same old boring rotation with sr added this expac. frost mages got a new way mechanic for brain freeze, getting their mastery changed in ptr, fire mages got a freaking good fireblast for hot streak proccs. i clamored for something "fun" something different for frost dks in beta. The response i got from blues and most dks is our class is fine.. so nothing needs to be changed.. AFTEr the fact that we showed how frost dks dont scale and have really shitty use of crit and mastery for 2h.

    Even now when they do reply to DK threads its always Dks have deathgrip for mobility (yep lemme deathgrip that boss to me for more uptime), have a high% of ppl playing dks (nothing to do with being a strong solo class amirite), mass grip for utility (admittedly good for couple of fights this tier). last ptr, we complained abt frost suckign in ToT... they didnt listen.. and then they nerfed unholy a bit instead of buffing frost when infact both speccs were low compared to other classes' dps. boggles my mind how they decide this stuff.
    If ranged dps being high is an issue rather than dks sucking, then why havent i seen any mage, boomkin nerfs? esp when fire mages scale incredibly well to begin with? they were top last tier in sims and in actual logs, they are top right now in sims and actual logs, they will stay top next patch as well. wheres the logic?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    Here's a challenge for you:

    At what point did I ever claim that "everything is just fine" for DKs right now? Show me the quote. A talking head like me must surely say it routinely, so this task should be absolutely trivial.
    As many times as you have lobbied for a fix to our scaling problem. This is the definition of a Talking Head. You say a whole lot but never actually DO anything.

    I've never seen you support anyone who has lobbied for a solution, you (and some others) sure are always quick to cut them down though.

    I apologize if I offended you as this is not my intention, but I feel like I have been attacked for trying to seek out a solution to the biggest problem our class has ever faced. Let's not turn this into a personal battle because I have no ill feelings for you. I would just really like to see everyone come together and hit this problem head on because that is what would make the difference. We can either work together for a core fix or just accept that our class balance is based on set bonuses or trinkets and our stats make little-to-no difference.
    Last edited by DarthMetatron; 2013-07-10 at 12:38 PM.
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  4. #84
    If ranged dps being high is an issue rather than dks sucking, then why havent i seen any mage, boomkin nerfs? esp when fire mages scale incredibly well to begin with? they were top last tier in sims and in actual logs, they are top right now in sims and actual logs, they will stay top next patch as well. wheres the logic?
    Because mages are crawlies darling. I remember the change for firemages in the past. Two weeks later, fire was buffed again because of the crying crowd. It can't be that mages are "middle of the pack". If they don't rule the meters, something is wrong.

  5. #85
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    Because mages are crawlies darling. I remember the change for firemages in the past. Two weeks later, fire was buffed again because of the crying crowd. It can't be that mages are "middle of the pack". If they don't rule the meters, something is wrong.
    If the discussion goes down this way, the thread will be locked and people continuing these kind of conspiracy theory posts will be infracted.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    If the discussion goes down this way, the thread will be locked and people continuing these kind of conspiracy theory posts will be infracted.
    What? Several logs have proven, that fire was falling behind other specs, so the change was reverted to be on top again. Thats not a conspiracy, that was the truth.

    But thanks for the notice...

    My point was, that blizzards behavior in buffing or nerfing classes has no substance in most cases. There are many examples about that.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    If the discussion goes down this way, the thread will be locked and people continuing these kind of conspiracy theory posts will be infracted.
    It may be off-topic for this thread, but I really don't think you can label the previous post a conspiracy theory. No matter ones personal opinion on the "hybrid tax", there is enough of a history to deduce that Blizzard thinks that mages and warlocks should have at least 1 spec in the top 3 at all times. Hunters and rogues don't seem to be as consistent as the dress-wearing classes, with both having a spec that performs relatively well at all times but rarely have all 3 specs doing very well, something that isn't uncommon for the wizards. Hunters seem to be most susceptible to massive swings in damage from one patch to another, particularly on a spec-to-spec basis. going from OP to receiving a crushing nerf. Things like that just don't happen to mages (at least the crushing nerfs). Regardless I don't think it is at all unreasonable, unfounded, or a conspiracy theory to state that Blizzard will not accept the mage class being mediocre at anything, and the same cannot be said for virtually every other class with the possible exception of warlocks. Not saying it is right or wrong, but it is crystal clear that plate DPS is not treated equally with wizards in regard to damage output. That is all I will say on the matter.

  8. #88
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    "Mages are Ghostcrawlers pet class they will always be best" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and has no connection to the state of DK DpS. Claiming that everything revolves around Mages being the master class and everyone needs to be worse than them is exactly what a conspiracy theory is (and as it always goes with conspiracy theories, those that believe in them don't think they are conspiracy theories). Nevertheless posts like that just attract bad posters. Those that come to taunt and also those that come to join the "^this" crowd. Neither adding anything worthwhile to the discussion.

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