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  1. #1

    A question about 2H frost dps

    I'm thinking about getting back to my DK, last time I played was in DS heroic where dual wield frost was the best spec. I wasn't a big fan of it because it was annoying wasting KM procs on frost strike instead of obliterate.

    So I was wondering if anything has changed since then regarding dps rotation / priority.

    Also I noticed that DK dps is one of the lowest on DPS rankings like Noxxic, so I was wondering if this is relevant or if it just depends on the boss fight.


    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Having played 2H frost in heroic DS I Can tell you that it's pretty much the exact same. I would absolutely reccomend that you go UNH though, Frost is probably one of the absolute worst DPS specs in the entire game right now besides Arms.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatsh View Post
    Having played 2H frost in heroic DS I Can tell you that it's pretty much the exact same. I would absolutely reccomend that you go UNH though, Frost is probably one of the absolute worst DPS specs in the entire game right now besides Arms.
    What the fuck are you talking about? Unholy is right down there with any other DK DPS spec.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
    What the fuck are you talking about? Unholy is right down there with any other DK DPS spec.
    patchwerk yes, a lot of ToT boss mechanics favor unholy though

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
    What the fuck are you talking about? Unholy is right down there with any other DK DPS spec.
    What are YOU talking about? If you take the top 100 parses for each fight in ToT 25 Heroic, Unholy is 40-50k ahead of Frost.


    Frost is the 3rd worse dps spec in the game behind arms and frost (marks and sub aren't listed as they are so far behind the alternatives). Unholy is about middle of the road.
    Last edited by Varyk; 2013-06-27 at 02:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Eh, both specs have really fallen down the line. Frost and Unholy are middle ground amongst dps, with a few standout fights.

  7. #7
    with our 2 and 4 piece next patch i think we'll move up (frost might overtake unholy)

  8. #8
    Hmmm, what's weird is that while Noxxic lists unholy around the middle of the charts and a bit lower, raidbots has unholy near the top. Which one is more accurate?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatsh View Post
    Having played 2H frost in heroic DS I Can tell you that it's pretty much the exact same. I would absolutely reccomend that you go UNH though, Frost is probably one of the absolute worst DPS specs in the entire game right now besides Arms.

    *Wonders why he's beating mages, locks, hunters, pallies, etc and ranking on a continual as dw when frost is supposedly the absolute worst dps spec in the entire game right now beside arms*

    Edit: Simply because a spec is not "roll face across keyboard and win" does not make it a bad spec. If you have to work harder to outperform other classes then the taste of victory is just that much sweeter.

    Lastly, unholy is not the spec people keep saying is 'top' melee spec. It's festerblight, which is designed solely around applying diseases at the 10th stack of the proc from Ji-Kun's fabled feather (along with as many other buffs as possible) so people please stop carrying on about unholy already.
    Last edited by Samsarathedk; 2013-06-27 at 05:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Samsarathedk View Post
    *Wonders why he's beating mages, locks, hunters, pallies, etc and ranking on a continual as dw when frost is supposedly the absolute worst dps spec in the entire game right now beside arms*

    Edit: Simply because a spec is not "roll face across keyboard and win" does not make it a bad spec. If you have to work harder to outperform other classes then the taste of victory is just that much sweeter.

    Lastly, unholy is not the spec people keep saying is 'top' melee spec. It's festerblight, which is designed solely around applying diseases at the 10th stack of the proc from Ji-Kun's fabled feather (along with as many other buffs as possible) so people please stop carrying on about unholy already.
    Don't take this the wrong way but it is very possible your mages, hunters, pallies are just bad.

    Additionally you can work as hard as you want, take Nedda's example and place 1st as Frost DW spec on every log and still not be worthy of holding the proverbial "jock strap" of the three Mage specs. It is a sweet victory if the deck is stacked against you but really; should you run into equally qualified and geared players of other specs wouldn't you want more of a level playing field?

    Unholy shouldn't be marginalized as a the important DK spec for this Tier. What fool cannot get the Feather trinket now and test this for themselves? The "Festerblight" option is awesome for "Single target" and regular Unholy play is competitive with DW Howling Blast spamming giving you all DPS option for ToT within one spec/gear/gemming strategy. Can't do that with Frost 2h for single and then swapping to DW for more Aoe type fights even if you do get extra weapons because gemming is different between the two.

    Well I guess it doesn't matter if your guild isn't going to be booting you from a raid spot.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by boombeef View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way but it is very possible your mages, hunters, pallies are just bad.

    Additionally you can work as hard as you want, take Nedda's example and place 1st as Frost DW spec on every log and still not be worthy of holding the proverbial "jock strap" of the three Mage specs. It is a sweet victory if the deck is stacked against you but really; should you run into equally qualified and geared players of other specs wouldn't you want more of a level playing field?

    Unholy shouldn't be marginalized as a the important DK spec for this Tier. What fool cannot get the Feather trinket now and test this for themselves? The "Festerblight" option is awesome for "Single target" and regular Unholy play is competitive with DW Howling Blast spamming giving you all DPS option for ToT within one spec/gear/gemming strategy. Can't do that with Frost 2h for single and then swapping to DW for more Aoe type fights even if you do get extra weapons because gemming is different between the two.

    Well I guess it doesn't matter if your guild isn't going to be booting you from a raid spot.
    First, no offense taken

    I've addressed this issue in previous threads, I run with top 50 ranking mages, hunter, locks, pallies, etc and can hold my own against them on the meters without scumbag dpsing so there will be zero 'jockstrap holding'. I could care less about ranking though I do quite frequently, my job is to perform my dps assignments and contribute dps that is either above or on par with the aforementioned classes in my 25 man so I'm good. As a side note- I've also experimented with festerblight and find the spec to be fun if you like the "big bang for little buck" play style but it's simply not for me so I play dw as I enjoy doing more than "wait for feather proc, roll diseases entire fight until execute phase, switch back to normal unholy rotation".

    Maybe it's just me but I do not feel the deck stacked against me in any way through our heroic progression and no my raidspot is not in danger as I am quite competitive. Now does that mean that I do not feel that dks could use some love? Not at all, but I do feel that people look at scumbag dps logs way too much when it comes to dks and then immediately condemn frost as the 'worst spec' which is completely false.

  12. #12
    If you're looking for what specs dominate on what fight, look at raidbots or browse WOL and see what specs are parsing highest.

    I've played with an Arcane Mage who tops meters and a hunter who played MM last week and was competative with the rest of the raid. He did over 200k on Durumu as MM, and the Arcane mage is topping meters on fights like Council where Fire SHOULD be better.

    It's mostly player skill that makes a spec good/bad, but I can agree with most people by saying if you're topping meters as DW Frost you either severly outgear the people you're playing with or they all suck.

  13. #13
    delusions of grandeur

    Contribute contructively
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-06-27 at 09:17 PM.

  14. #14
    I hold top 20 parses (10man heroic) on 8 fights, yet I am consistently the lowest DPS in my raid group. Anecdotal account I know, but WoL validates it.

    Frost stinks right now, plain and simple.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samsarathedk View Post
    *Wonders why he's beating mages, locks, hunters, pallies, etc and ranking on a continual as dw when frost is supposedly the absolute worst dps spec in the entire game right now beside arms*

    Edit: Simply because a spec is not "roll face across keyboard and win" does not make it a bad spec. If you have to work harder to outperform other classes then the taste of victory is just that much sweeter.

    Lastly, unholy is not the spec people keep saying is 'top' melee spec. It's festerblight, which is designed solely around applying diseases at the 10th stack of the proc from Ji-Kun's fabled feather (along with as many other buffs as possible) so people please stop carrying on about unholy already.
    Probably because your mage, hunters, and locks are bad?

    Simply because you beat someone doesn't mean the spec is fine. I beat our boomkin, warlock, hunter, shaman on every fight as a warrior, and beat most classes on my DK too. It's simply because I am better. If I moved to a better guild I would be beat one some fights because the skill margin would be closer, and it would come down to which class is stronger more than anything.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-27 at 11:53 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Probably because your mage, hunters, and locks are bad?

    Simply because you beat someone doesn't mean the spec is fine. I beat our boomkin, warlock, hunter, shaman on every fight as a warrior, and beat most classes on my DK too. It's simply because I am better. If I moved to a better guild I would be beat one some fights because the skill margin would be closer, and it would come down to which class is stronger more than anything.
    Replying to all comments in this post:

    The sole point that I attempted to make is this: Frost is not a terrible spec and can be played to effectively compete with other dps classes. Does it take more work than say festerblight or traditional unholy/ is sometimes at the mercy of rng? Sure! But some people perform more effectively with a specific spec which may not be the flavor of the week and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Furthermore, I even stated that dps dks as a whole could use some love but that certainly does not mean that frost "sucks" "stinks" "is garbage" "is the worst dps spec behind arms" etc. It simply means that it is not the bandwagon spec at the moment. Lastly, skill>spec plain and simple.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samsarathedk View Post
    Replying to all comments in this post:

    The sole point that I attempted to make is this: Frost is not a terrible spec and can be played to effectively compete with other dps classes. Does it take more work than say festerblight or traditional unholy/ is sometimes at the mercy of rng? Sure! But some people perform more effectively with a specific spec which may not be the flavor of the week and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Furthermore, I even stated that dps dks as a whole could use some love but that certainly does not mean that frost "sucks" "stinks" "is garbage" "is the worst dps spec behind arms" etc. It simply means that it is not the bandwagon spec at the moment. Lastly, skill>spec plain and simple.
    What you SHOULD say is that although sometimes class balance is great enough to overwrite great amounts of skill, in general good gameplay is more important than FOTM/OP classes.

    But that means if you are beating DPS who are stronger overall, it doesn't mean the spec is good. It means the other player is, more likely than not either significantly less geared, or significantly worse.

    At higher levels where the skill differential is low, frost is a bad spec. But for most people that doesn't matter, since they aren't raiding with people of that skill level, or raiding at that level anyway. But that is not the same as the spec being good. They are separate and distinct.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-28 at 03:58 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    What you SHOULD say is that although sometimes class balance is great enough to overwrite great amounts of skill, in general good gameplay is more important than FOTM/OP classes.

    But that means if you are beating DPS who are stronger overall, it doesn't mean the spec is good. It means the other player is, more likely than not either significantly less geared, or significantly worse.

    At higher levels where the skill differential is low, frost is a bad spec. But for most people that doesn't matter, since they aren't raiding with people of that skill level, or raiding at that level anyway. But that is not the same as the spec being good. They are separate and distinct.
    This is going no where fast. So I'll just bow out, I'm tired of defending myself and my reasons for raiding in a heroic 25 man progression guild as dw frost and doing so competitively. The sole purpose of my original post was to let the OP know that there are other options than unholy and that frost is not the 'bastard child' that everyone make it out to be.

  19. #19
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samsarathedk View Post
    raiding in a heroic 25 man progression guild as dw frost and doing so competitively
    Could you post some logs to back this up?

  20. #20
    i dunno about his progress but here is one of our lei shen hc kill with me as DW, logs were private so i had to take a pic of it.
    http://i.imgur.com/LPyELDH.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/NzSOZam.jpg

    you can go and check, top dk UH at the time of the kill was 214k, top frost was 204k. That would have put me in top 5 frost and still top 20 UH if u just transpose those logs into UH and believe me it's so easy to do more as UH.
    let the QQ begin because i could have done 10k more deeps.

    am back to UH now, but it's a freaking pain to play this spec, it's boring, i'm in love with DW since cata and i hope it's gonna be back someday !

    ps : before u ask, u cannot even leech proper dmg no matter what spec u play in lei shen hc if ur locks know how to burst after grips, at best one tick/one HB.
    Last edited by Inambour; 2013-06-28 at 06:36 AM.

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