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  1. #461
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    Shadow of Death was a silly one. Great idea, poor implementation.

    Heroic Leap is also poorly implemented. Sometimes it'll work even if you can't target it. Other times it wont work when you can target it. Then there's the times you think the land is flat and BAM "No path available".
    Steam: dartagnus or Valarius | GW2: Valarius.9437 | WoW: Valarius#2649
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  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    For the DPSers or for the tank? Because for DPS, KTM was all that mattered. For the tank, it required some practice, but now, it instead requires re-positioning boss, watching out for a lot of other stuff and using mitigation mechanics which are more complicated than "HIT SHEILD BLOK EVERY 5 (or was it 6?) seconds HURR". Also, tanking was broken, if only because warriors were the only tank class which could deal with all bosses. Cause you know, it's only fair that a pally could not tank Illinoob before overgearing the boss ridiculously, amirite?
    Wait so all the times tanks had to reposition a boss due to death and decay or making sure that DPS wouldnt get death cleaved or have to get out of the fire or avoid other mechanics was my imagination? As a DPS that rode a lot of tanks asses even in WotLK and Cata in threat, there is a difference between a good tank and a shitty tank on just threat generation alone, then you toss in all the other factors like communication, add pickup, positioning, and mechanics handling. I have never met a good threat generating tank that didnt at least have the other factors down to a decent level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    That was a very useful spell for breaking fear when your targets keep getting feared out of range in PvP.

    Skilled warlocks also sometimes used fear in PvE as cc and and broke it with CoR if the mob is being feared away to agro more mobs.

    Removing this spell reduced the skill-cap for warlocks.
    I used it a bunch in BC when I had to CC in PVE. Didnt seem to have much use for it personally in PVP. In certain cases you could also use it on bosses that didnt benefit from it, but i think most bosses would multiply the effect. I think the need for CC in general reduced the skill-cap of warlocks to go from CCing three targets at once which was considered the norm to not CCing anything. Though not having a way to break fear besides having to do enough damage makes the cases that a warlock would use fear to be diminished and effectively make the skill unusable. Seduction is a decent skill, but still sucks due to the recast requirement of a channeled spell on top of losing the DPS of the pet.

  3. #463
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Crusader Absalom View Post
    I understand lol but why is there a counter shot? Just give silence shot to all specs. They went out of their way to give it to two specs with a different name and icon.
    blizzard wants less blanket silences in pvp.
    Too cool for a signature

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Asetotti View Post
    Stupid spell design: Sentry totem.
    Do I need to explain?
    I have to admit, I abused Sentry Totem for camping the bodies of people who killed quest npcs. Apparently, nobody knew what it did. It was just there. Watching. And when they rez'd and looked around and saw this sad little totem, they kinda just stared back at it. It was a sort of tanking/cc totem, you see. People just stared at it, while you snuck up from behind and bonked them on the head with a stacked windfury crit.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by yogzula View Post
    the original hunter survival tree

    there's nothing that even comes close
    I would say vanilla paladin is a strong competitor, it was either go holy or go home, and even then you barely healed, it was just keeping buffs up and hearing people shout "wisdom up"

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Crusader Absalom View Post
    I understand lol but why is there a counter shot? Just give silence shot to all specs. They went out of their way to give it to two specs with a different name and icon.
    Because counter shot is an interrupt and silencing shot... is... an interrupting and... a silence... which was problematic in PvP. And MM had to get sth unique.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  7. #467
    I look at the talent trees for paladins at the start of the game and am wondering wtf they were thinking.. same thing for druids. O_o
    Still I kinda miss getting a talent point each level. its like a little reward. To me there were always some skills that I wanted to play around with (Bladestorm comes to mind) so to me it was like: "One step closer to unlocking it!" Sure it was meaningless and at max level the game is much better but I miss that aspect of leveling.
    It has been scientifically confirmed that if Eiffel was green; he would in fact die.

  8. #468
    The game could just say: you have reached level 48. You next unlock is an extra glyph slot at level 50!
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  9. #469
    Brewmaster Nurvus's Avatar
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    Most stupid Spell ever off the top of my head is Guardian of Ancient Kings.
    I love the Shadowmourne mechanic on its Retribution use.
    I dislike the Shield Wall clone as Protection.
    The Holy effect is okay.

    But what really makes it absolutely retarded, is the concept of a summon as a Paladin.

    It makes sense for Priests to be vicarious, and summon Spirits and Fiends.
    But one of the distinguishing traits that sets Paladins apart from Priests, is the fact that Paladins do not call Cavalry, they are the Cavalry.
    They wield the Light as a weapon, or become the weapon themselves, rather than calling upon assistance.

    If Blizzard ever gives me a pet-less version of GoAK, as a glyph or something, I'll totally glue it to every spec of my paladin(s).
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  10. #470
    Bring back swirly balls!

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellash View Post
    Most stupid Spell ever off the top of my head is Guardian of Ancient Kings.
    I love the Shadowmourne mechanic on its Retribution use.
    I dislike the Shield Wall clone as Protection.
    The Holy effect is okay.

    But what really makes it absolutely retarded, is the concept of a summon as a Paladin.

    It makes sense for Priests to be vicarious, and summon Spirits and Fiends.
    But one of the distinguishing traits that sets Paladins apart from Priests, is the fact that Paladins do not call Cavalry, they are the Cavalry.
    They wield the Light as a weapon, or become the weapon themselves, rather than calling upon assistance.

    If Blizzard ever gives me a pet-less version of GoAK, as a glyph or something, I'll totally glue it to every spec of my paladin(s).
    Hmm I don't think the Hearthstone design team agrees with you given the paladin racial

    I never liked pets in general, or guardians. Some are OKish others are plain annoying. I never liked it on paladin. I mean, why? Why would you want that feature. I don't even like my pet on my priest.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  12. #472
    I like the new talent system much better than the old, and I played this game since day one.

    Most things more or less made sense at the time. Some people look back at a talent that bumped wand damage, but that shit was actually used by people because once upon a time it was actually possible to run OOM in a raid and it also allowed healers to add to DPS without hurting their mana pools, etc. Wands weren't just useless. Everything had a purpose then, even if you chose not to use it. Even curse of recklessness was nice. It was useless for most things, but the fact it made humanoid mobs fight to the death instead of running away and risk pulling more shit was INVALUABLE. Those elite trolls in that outdoor area in Hinterlands was hard to get a successful group to clear all that crap for quests and when they got low they'd run off and aggro more shit onto you unless you had something to prevent them from running. The game was very different back then.

    I think one of the worst decisions blizzard ever made as far as spell design was removing Tree of Life form from druids. Since it was created, druids loved the form, and it served a purpose. Not only did it give a dedicated form to the druid healing role, which was important because melee dps, ranged dps, and tank roles had already had forms at that point for a long time, but it just gave a little something unique and fun to healers. Initially it had a 20% movement snare attached to it which kinda sucked but it was like a trade off. You sacrificed some mobility for better heals. They later removed that downside though, I don't remember when exactly.

    Then they removed it. For no reason. They claimed it was because the form served no purpose and they could simply roll the mana cost reduction into baseline costs without a need for the form. Yeah. Ok. Lets go over the features of Tree of Life form vs Moonkin form.

    Tree of Life:
    1. Reduced healing mana costs 20%
    2. Increased armor by a %
    3. Increased healing done to partymembers under the effect of your tree of life aura, i believe it correlated to your spirit IIRC

    vs

    Moonkin
    1. Gives a passive crit buff
    2. Increases armor
    3. ????

    Tree of life did more shit than moonkin form, yet they still felt tree of life served no purpose and cut it, while moonkin form remained? It was complete, utter bullshit. They could've just as easily cut moonkin form and made the 5% crit aura passive just for being balance spec but they chose to keep moonkin form relevant and chose to just remove tree of life form, again, for NO REASON. Pissed me off to no end.

    Now eventually, a long ass time later, they finally brought tree of life back as a cooldown talent. We could assume our epic tree forms temporarily once in a while for a boost to heals. Then they FINALLY made a minor glyph to let us transform at will, although now it's simply cosmetic. At least we have the option again, but cutting it out of the game in the first place was inexcusable imo. Complete horse shit.

    As far as other shitty designs, I feel the game kinda gets shittier and more ridiculous with every expansion as far as abilities go. Every single expansion blizzard adds new abilities just because "HOLY SHIT GUYS NEW EXPANSION, EVERYONE NEEDS 5 NEW POWERS" and while sometimes, some of them are really cool and fit the class well or supplement some weakness a class had, etc most of the time its filler bullshit giving a class a new ability just to say they gave that class a new ability.

    I think hunters are about the worst victim of this. I mean hunter rotations perhaps aren't the most thrilling or enthralling things in the world, but I don't think adding a bunch of extra buttons you have to push on cooldown makes it more interesting at all. Murder of crows, lynx rush, glaive toss, power shot, its like completely random ass shit they just threw in there just to say they had something new. Hunters didn't need any of it. I would much rather they simply revamped their rotations a little to make each spec a little more unique rather than just adding button float and stupidity to all of their rotations. I will say though, I love the Stampede ability. Hunters have wanted a way to summon all of their pets for a long time, and I think they hit the nail on the head with how it works now simply as a dps cooldown that you pop like twice per fight. The long cooldown doesn't make it feel like ridiculous button bloat stupidity like murder of crows and glaive toss, it's just an extra little dps cooldown that is actually fun and cool to use.

    Now if only warlocks could get something similar to summon multiple demons at a time. The grimoire of service or whatever it is called where they summon one extra for a little while is kinda lame IMO. If it's only gonna be one extra demon, it would be far more fun if it was permanent. I know i've always wanted the ability to have multiple demons as a warlock since day 1. Demonology these days can sorta kinda fill that niche with the little imp swarms they spawn, but it still isn't quite the same. Plus, who likes playing demonology?

    Speaking of demonology, I have a major gripe about life tap. Once upon a time, life tap was fantastic because you were raiding in an environment where you could run yourself oom and the ability to sacrifice some of your health to regain mana to keep casting was a fantastic bonus and benefit to being a warlock. Fast forward a few years where DPS casters become easymode street and you literally cannot go OOM no matter what you do most of the time, life tap has flipped into the ultimate pain in the ass. While all other casts have limitless mana through one passive effect or another, and even destruction just has passive insane mana regen, demonology is stuck needing to life tap to regain the mana they exhaust frequently. I can appreciate them wanting to keep the spell in the game for old time's sake, but punishing the demonology spec for the sake of keeping life tap relevant is the wrong way to go about it IMO.

    I also hate how little control mist weaver monks have over who they heal, but i think i've gone on enough about enough stupid things.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  13. #473
    Dreadlord Winterstrife's Avatar
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    As far as I remember without looking at old talent calculators, Crusader Strike being a talent has to be up there with top most stupid talents in WoW history.
    Leveling as a Paladin before you can get Crusader Strike (before the talent revamps) was such so painfully slow.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...trife/advanced
    WoW: Winterstrife, Level 90 Human Paladin | ESO: S'trife, Veteran Rank 12 Khajiit Nightblade | GW2: Winter Strife, Level 80 Charr Warrior.

  14. #474
    Good to see ~24 pages of people who mostly believe that things are definately better now than they used to be. I never understand people whining about the talents in game, claiming it was better before. How can 5 points for 5% crit on some spell be fun to choose? It was ok in the past, because all games worked like that, but come on... It is plain boring and mandatory, there is nobody not choosing them.

    Some people have already replied about specs in vanilla, where class X always had to spec Y, because the community (group/guild) needed it. Warriors were tank (the only ones, really), priest, druid, paladin always healer, rest = dps and mostly only 1 viable spec. For example arcane mages in vanilla did not exist at all, fire mages in Molten Core and Blackwing Lair?!?! Nah, today is definately better than 8 years ago.

    As a priest in vanilla I remember that Holy Nova was the top tier talent in the holy tree. Almost all priests picked 11/30/0 as talents, simply because Holy Nova was utter crap.

    It would have been nice if we would get a talent every 5 levels, because the choices we have to differentiate from eachother is a bit too limited at the moment.

  15. #475
    Actually talents before MoP looked better for a RPG game for me...
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrrildur View Post
    Good to see ~24 pages of people who mostly believe that things are definately better now than they used to be. I never understand people whining about the talents in game, claiming it was better before. How can 5 points for 5% crit on some spell be fun to choose? It was ok in the past, because all games worked like that, but come on... It is plain boring and mandatory, there is nobody not choosing them.

    Some people have already replied about specs in vanilla, where class X always had to spec Y, because the community (group/guild) needed it. Warriors were tank (the only ones, really), priest, druid, paladin always healer, rest = dps and mostly only 1 viable spec. For example arcane mages in vanilla did not exist at all, fire mages in Molten Core and Blackwing Lair?!?! Nah, today is definately better than 8 years ago.

    As a priest in vanilla I remember that Holy Nova was the top tier talent in the holy tree. Almost all priests picked 11/30/0 as talents, simply because Holy Nova was utter crap.

    It would have been nice if we would get a talent every 5 levels, because the choices we have to differentiate from eachother is a bit too limited at the moment.

    Actually I think that talents before MoP were better, why? Because in every "ding" you become slowly more stronger and stronger. It feels like more RPG game then every 5 levels you get "OMG NEW ABILITY!".
    Last edited by Eazy; 2014-01-26 at 09:56 AM.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Actually talents before MoP looked better for a RPG game for me...
    LOOKED better, but didn't function better. For example there were some talents that were completely worthless.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Actually talents before MoP looked better for a RPG game for me...



    Actually I think that talents before MoP were better, why? Because in every "ding" you become slowly more stronger and stronger. It feels like more RPG game then every 5 levels you get "OMG NEW ABILITY!".
    I'd rather get a major ability that very much completely altered the way i fought in battle, than some unnoticeable effect every level.

    Oh sure, sometimes those talents would become noticeable... after you put 5 points (i.e. 5 levels) in it.

    When i was in Vanilla and BC that was usually half the reason to play one spec, or put left over talent points in one spec over another. To gain either a new ability or a new effect. I Loved the 2 or 3 patches (if i remember correctly) when you could spec your holy priest to also have the Spirit buff and the talent where you get spell power from spirit. It was both a Ability that only people with points in Disc could bring (across the whole game) and had the effect of making my spell power Naturally higher than any other full Holy Priest (even if maybe their greater heals where stronger).

    That is the key, major effects and abilities....

    Which is what the MoP talents are. I used to do the less smart thing and put points in Ret instead of Holy or Protection because i valued being a fast tank (put points in pursuit of justice), but now not only can i be a fast tank...I can choose in what way i want to be. Instead of ONLY being able to use this Cool ability my class gets if i spec as a healer...I can use it no matter my spec. I'd hate it if the 3 lvl 90 talents for paladins where based on spec. Holy prism for Holy, Hammer for Prot and Execution for Ret. Thematically appropriate but each ability is so cool and i love picking the one that I think better suits my style.

    I can be a Healer and have my fade remove roots and snares. I can be combat and have shadow step. I can be Marksman and have SPirit bond.

    And each one of these choices greatly impacts me.

    It does feel a bit lame that you dont gain in power as you level. Which is why they are making some passives Creep up as you level up. So you still get the 5% crit, or the 10% spell haste. But they are all effects that you would have picked anyways.

    The way it will be in WoD is that you will gain in power as you level up, and when you pick a major ability it will be a major choice that alters your gameplay.

    As it should be.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    MoP are the worst for me. it's just ridiculous imo. it feels like something that should be a form of side progression once you hit max level, like rift's planar attunement or something.
    in wow its called gearing up

  19. #479
    All those people pointing on hunter's survival tree, the whole tree makes perfect sense when you look at it from role play perspective. Unfortunately there is no role play in talent trees anymore. And it wasn't useless specc, in bgs you could yell "RUN AWAY LITTLE GIRL" to any enemy rogue.

  20. #480
    1)mop "talent trees", oh god they are so bad
    2)50mana sinister strike-like what the fuck? blizzard gives rogues energy regen that scales with haste+epic set bonus that reduces ability cost during cds -> rogues are energy capped during AR/bl -> blizzard reduces gcd durign cds -> next patch its not enough, still energy capped -> sinister strike deals more damage but costs 50 energy. holy shit, tried to level new rogue now, I have 13 energy per second, so can use sinister strike every 4 seconds lol. my rotation usually consists of sinister strike-snd.
    nice fixes blizz, thanks

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