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  1. #481
    People tend to look at these old talents with the mind set they have today, especially if they didn't play back then. While there was something things that were pretty much completely useless, others were more specific in when and how they could be used.

    I think people either don't know or forget that one of the things so many of us like about the old talent trees is that you could or almost always would use a completely different build for leveling than you did for end game PvE. PvP always had its own builds which usually involved some form of a hybrid talent build. Yes if all you did was raid you just kept the same build most of the time, but otherwise you were always changing it up and adjusting it, and patch day could do some pretty interesting things with builds.

    I've seen some spells and things brought up though that people just shake their head at, but they did have their place at one point and time. Detect Magic, the Mage increase/decrease in spell damage/healing, Wand spec ( for all caster specs), etc. were all used for something. Actually Wand spec was used a crap ton because of the fact that at one point and time threat and mana mattered to everyone. Casters would use it to regain mana from Judgements (or just to add a bit of damage while regening) or if you had run up several crits in a row as DPS you would use it to still do damage without doing full damage. As whacky as some of it was it was mostly useful for something.

    LoH from Paladins I see get pitched around a bunch too, but it was a different era with a different mind set that made it that way. It took all of your mana but 500, which was a way of making that powerful heal have a consequence ( now they just use that debuff thing) and use some thought. You didn't use it at the start of the fight, you didn't use it unless you had a pot off CD, and oddly enough it was used just as much to get mana back as it was to save someone. Paladins had no regen other than sitting and waiting or Judgement, and since no Raids wanted a healer in melee range even that was even off limits mostly. So you waited til you ran completely out, let the tank get low, LoH him to full and you could throw a few more casts and hope that pot CD came up.

    Oddly enough everyone laughs about survival hunters, but there was a time when that freaking spec played in melee was just crazy. It generally took a well geared, very good player to make it work, but I can remember several tearing things up back in WSG

    Frankly I'm not a huge fan of the new talents, there really isn't that much choice tbh, maybe even less so than in the old trees depending on your class. I know certainly for my Elemental Shaman I tend to change my glyphs far more than I ever change my talents, there just is zero reason to do so most of the time. Thats not to say there is zero choice, but since they added it I pretty much believed that it was done to make the game easier and cheaper to produce more so than to make it more fun.

    The new talents have also completely altered the leveling experience and the fun you could get from it. TBH there was a ton more choice while leveling than there ever was at end game and while that 1% crit didn't feel like it did much, the fact you got a reward at pretty much every level made the entire experience much more rewarding ( probably even more so for new players). The last one I leveled ( believe it was Monk) I never even noticed I leveled most of the time, it simply didn't matter. Frankly the new system while leveling seems as much like a punishment as it does a reward. Here you are sitting at 15, 30, 45, 60, 75 and realizing you don't get anything really cool again for an entire 15 levels. And they wonder why new players don't stick around?

  2. #482
    The only thing missing from leveling now is new moves/talents in a timely manner. You'll ding several times and nothing changes. That's a problem imo.

    Once you're at or near cap the system really shines. I will say though , you did have more control over your spec's identity, albeit just a little bit more. I'm speaking mostly of early wrath FFB mages. You had to grab a lot of talents, but when you did FFB had like 300% crit dmg or some shit. Was so dope!

    These talents today make you feel a bit neutered, but the system alows for more real customization. If Blizz can figure out how to leverage glyphs and have them actually alter abilities on the level some talents do ten I think we'll finally hit that sweet spot. That, and they need to scrap uninspired talent designs like the mage 90 and (to a slightly lesser extend) 75 tiers.

    Tangent: Those talents are all fucking horrible. How'd we go from stacking and maintaining 5 stacks of Scorch to maintaining RoP or Invocation. Shit's dumb. At least give scorch back if mages must have maintenance mechanics.
    "We all cry for something different. However, when something different really does come along, we just want something familiar." Dakia, SW:TOR Forum Mod.

  3. #483
    Old WOTF. Yes, I used to play an ally warlock. Yes, I loved those UD rogues.

  4. #484
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    As mage MOP lvl 75 and lvl 90 mage talen tiers. I never befor hated my class so badly and now i even think about remain different calss if WoD will not bring our specs into 2014 and makle this calss fun again.
    "makle this calss fun again"? Really?
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  5. #485
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Crusader Absalom View Post
    I understand lol but why is there a counter shot? Just give silence shot to all specs. They went out of their way to give it to two specs with a different name and icon.
    Then they would have to give something else to MM, I suppose. Bottom line, it is not a "most stupid" design

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Wait so all the times tanks had to reposition a boss due to death and decay or making sure that DPS wouldnt get death cleaved or have to get out of the fire or avoid other mechanics was my imagination? As a DPS that rode a lot of tanks asses even in WotLK and Cata in threat, there is a difference between a good tank and a shitty tank on just threat generation alone, then you toss in all the other factors like communication, add pickup, positioning, and mechanics handling. I have never met a good threat generating tank that didnt at least have the other factors down to a decent level.
    But fights got more and more complicated, so pickup, positioning and mechanics were getting more complicated as well, so they had to drop threat generation. Because hanging back on DPS for DPSers was not the most fun mechanic ever as well.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Asetotti View Post
    Stupid spell design: Sentry totem.
    Do I need to explain?
    I actually used to use Sentry Totem back in Vanilla. It was actually pretty useful in BGs to determine where someone was coming since it would ping when ever someone would pass by it.

    Anyways as for the topic at hand, I'd say Earthquake. They really didn't do this ability justice and I was incredibly disappointed when it was released, since I played a lot of WC3.

  7. #487
    the current talent system is by far the dumbest. Bring back 71 point trees.

  8. #488
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whidbey View Post
    Eyes of the Eagle.. waste of a button
    I find it useful in open world PvP. I use it to see how many Alliance players there are without them knowing I'm there. But otherwise, it's pretty useless.

  9. #489
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    the current talent system is by far the dumbest. Bring back 71 point trees.
    Yes, let's load even more useless crap into talent trees that we can pick to advance to the next tier.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  10. #490
    Mind Control. Surrender your character's movement to cause an enemy to attack for seven seconds, or make them run off a cliff in AB or EotS.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yes, let's load even more useless crap into talent trees that we can pick to advance to the next tier.
    ^

    Personally I enjoy having the opportunity to change my spec based on fights and not having to rework a whole talent tree. Also gives us choice on what we'd like to use. (Yes I know there's still people out there using...math...to figure out what's better out of the three, but from what I've seen most of the time it's a marginal difference.)

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Look at ankh right now - you can't use it as a routine defensive due to cd, but you know you're balanced around it (see shamans lack of defensives and no ability to soak things)
    lolwut? shamans can spec astral shift and ele+enhance get shamanistic rage. resto gets plenty of passive defense to make up for not having shamanistic rage. . . but i digress

    Volley in vanilla doing like 50dmg a tick at 60.
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    People tend to look at these old talents with the mind set they have today, especially if they didn't play back then. While there was something things that were pretty much completely useless, others were more specific in when and how they could be used.

    I think people either don't know or forget that one of the things so many of us like about the old talent trees is that you could or almost always would use a completely different build for leveling than you did for end game PvE. PvP always had its own builds which usually involved some form of a hybrid talent build. Yes if all you did was raid you just kept the same build most of the time, but otherwise you were always changing it up and adjusting it, and patch day could do some pretty interesting things with builds.

    I've seen some spells and things brought up though that people just shake their head at, but they did have their place at one point and time. Detect Magic, the Mage increase/decrease in spell damage/healing, Wand spec ( for all caster specs), etc. were all used for something. Actually Wand spec was used a crap ton because of the fact that at one point and time threat and mana mattered to everyone. Casters would use it to regain mana from Judgements (or just to add a bit of damage while regening) or if you had run up several crits in a row as DPS you would use it to still do damage without doing full damage. As whacky as some of it was it was mostly useful for something.

    LoH from Paladins I see get pitched around a bunch too, but it was a different era with a different mind set that made it that way. It took all of your mana but 500, which was a way of making that powerful heal have a consequence ( now they just use that debuff thing) and use some thought. You didn't use it at the start of the fight, you didn't use it unless you had a pot off CD, and oddly enough it was used just as much to get mana back as it was to save someone. Paladins had no regen other than sitting and waiting or Judgement, and since no Raids wanted a healer in melee range even that was even off limits mostly. So you waited til you ran completely out, let the tank get low, LoH him to full and you could throw a few more casts and hope that pot CD came up.

    Oddly enough everyone laughs about survival hunters, but there was a time when that freaking spec played in melee was just crazy. It generally took a well geared, very good player to make it work, but I can remember several tearing things up back in WSG

    Frankly I'm not a huge fan of the new talents, there really isn't that much choice tbh, maybe even less so than in the old trees depending on your class. I know certainly for my Elemental Shaman I tend to change my glyphs far more than I ever change my talents, there just is zero reason to do so most of the time. Thats not to say there is zero choice, but since they added it I pretty much believed that it was done to make the game easier and cheaper to produce more so than to make it more fun.

    The new talents have also completely altered the leveling experience and the fun you could get from it. TBH there was a ton more choice while leveling than there ever was at end game and while that 1% crit didn't feel like it did much, the fact you got a reward at pretty much every level made the entire experience much more rewarding ( probably even more so for new players). The last one I leveled ( believe it was Monk) I never even noticed I leveled most of the time, it simply didn't matter. Frankly the new system while leveling seems as much like a punishment as it does a reward. Here you are sitting at 15, 30, 45, 60, 75 and realizing you don't get anything really cool again for an entire 15 levels. And they wonder why new players don't stick around?
    Wise words.
    I'm leveling alts now. New server and all. This new system is absolutely brutal for levelling. Sometimes you ding and get nothing. Like... Nothing. That's it. You levelled, fairplay to you.
    I stick around cause I love the game and can't find a long lasting alternative. But how exactly are they expectin new players to go through early levelling? Quests are linear as fuck, lfd is just 4 npcs, pvp is a torture unless fully loomed AND enchanted and now thanks to this system there is literally no customisation anymore. Back in the days I choose to pick subtlety talents cause I really wanted to be a sneaking tribal troll ninja This doesn't happen anymore.
    Like I mean you go from gw2 to wow and you really wonder why did they switch to this system...
    Last edited by Djalil; 2014-01-27 at 11:09 AM.

  14. #494
    Aside from genuine hybrid builds that were, at best, used for solo play and to satisfy the curiosity bug everyone has, I'm amazed how ignorant people can be saying it was better back then.
    Is it better now? You could say that.
    It seems blizzard essentially trimmed the fat, so to say, and give the things we put points into to us passively as we level.
    We aren't missing out on anything. Really. We aren't.
    Except for "increase armor/crit/spirit by 10%" talents.

    We have to remember as well, although the game title has stayed the same, the game is a completely new beast now then what it was back then. That of course skews opinions.
    Last edited by Grand Crusader Absalom; 2014-01-27 at 02:21 PM.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Crusader Absalom View Post
    Aside from genuine hybrid builds that were, at best, used for solo play and to satisfy the curiosity bug everyone has, I'm amazed how ignorant people can be saying it was better back then.
    Is it better now? You could say that.
    It seems blizzard essentially trimmed the fat, so to say, and give the things we put points into to us passively as we level.
    We aren't missing out on anything. Really. We aren't.
    Except for "increase armor/crit/spirit by 10%" talents.

    We have to remember as well, although the game title has stayed the same, the game is a completely new beast now then what it was back then. That of course skews opinions.
    I don't particularly think there was any need of "timming fat" by removing 65 talents off our trees.
    A few adjustments were needed, sure. Flexibility was needed, sure. But why reducing talent trees to automatically given stuff? Customisation was good. And I don't mean high end raiding only. While levelling, what's the difference in picking a different school when playing a Mage? A couple of spells and that's it. It wasnt that different back then mind you, but through the choice of talents you had the feeling your character was being developed. As in growing in power.

    Again. Flexibility was needed, yes. That I agree. I think they came very close with wotlk's dk at the beginning. I know they were absolutely OP, im not discussing that, but the idea that you could dps and tank with all three specs was genius.

  16. #496
    Grunt
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    The original Lightwell is my number one most stupid talent in WoW history.

  17. #497
    Flame orb was kinda derp at the time but they removed it at the end of Cata. Other mentions would be Amplify Magic and Dampen Magic to cast it on nearly every raid member before a fight and then changing between the two depending if the fight was physical or magical based.

    My 3DS FC 2895-6749-0911 - PM if you add me and i'll add you in return.

  18. #498
    Field Marshal Palapop's Avatar
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    heart of the wild.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    heart of the wild.
    Which version?

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Feindy View Post
    50mana sinister strike
    Oh man if only rogues used mana
    "First disciplinary action: Charlie Horse Attack!"

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